Guernsey questions.

[Dude~]

Forgive me for clogging up this forum with questions but has anyone flown to Guernsey (or Jersy)?

Did you follow the suggested route direct from SAM VOR to the cherbourg ADF? It is still a long way over water! (56nm coast to coast - 30 mins in an arrow) would anyone suggest it is worth crossing the channel near lydd instead? Obviously this is ultimately a personal financial decision!

Also, lifejackets or immersion suits at this time of year? If so , where on earth do you hire four immersion suits?!

Other than that, any little gems I should be aware of? Oh and isn't fuel really cheap over there?

Cheers

[IFollowRoads]

Hi Dude~

It seems you can pretty much route whichever way you like, but if you intend doing something strange it would probably be a good idea to call Jersey zone on the phone and ask them *before* departure. Also, don't forget to get a zone entry clearance *before* you blunder in. Don't forget the zone is Class A, so check out your minima VFR/SVFR/IFR depending on what ratings you have or haven't got. Also, be *very* wary of the weather, speaking with Jersey met. would bew worthwhile for their local knowledge, it fogs in very easily, frequently taking Dinard with it. I have had to divert to Rennes in the past because all of Jersey/Guernsey/Cherbourg & Dinard were below IR minima on arrival - it was CAVOK at Rennes!

How much equipment you want to wear/carry is going to be your choice (and that of your pax), but this time of year, if it was me, I would route somewhere shorter over water, or take a liferaft. (I've no experience with immersion suits) In any case, a lifejacket & warm clothing per person would be an absolute minimum - in the worst case (28nm from land) it is still going to be over an hour before a lifeboat get to you, assuming it can find you immediately.

The fuel is cheap (just under 50p/litre), tobacco cheaper than the UK, but not as cheap as France or Lux.

Have a great trip!

[Warped Factor]

Yo Dude~,

SEMS Aerosafe in Basildon hire/sell immersion suits. Don't know what the hire charges are but buying a large size reconditioned one will cost you around £115. If you hire then buy I believe they knock the price of the hire off the selling price.

Phone : 01268 534427

Fax : 01268 281009

WF.

[M.Mouse]

Just a couple of thoughts.

At anytime of year survival time in water is very short. A friend ditched in the channel a few years ago and was pulled out by helicopter in about 25 minutes. He tells me that you cannot believe how quickly the cold incapacitates you. He had a liferaft which failed to inflate!

My minimum equipment would be lifejackets(worn in readiness for the unexepected) and a life raft with rear seat passengers briefed to have it accessible and ready to remove from the aircraft in the unlikely event of ditching. Immersion suits would be brilliant if you consider the risk/cost worth it I personally wouldn't.

I have done the crossing direct numerous times. It is a calculated risk. To my mind in a well maintained aircraft and with suitable emergency equipment it is a small and acceptable risk.

I would echo internal_server_error's comments about talking to Jersey met and as far as routing I seem to recall I used to fly to ORTAC (on the FIR boundary mid - channel) and then direct to whichever island I was visiting.

Carry out thorough preparation and enjoy, it is worth the effort.


All the CIs are great as a destination.

[Southern Cross]

A couple of guys that I met wear wetsuits rather than immersion suits when crossing the Channel - a cheaper but nonetheless effective alternative if you happen to have a wetsuit from other activities. Not only insulative but also assist bouyancy.

Just a thought.

[Dude~]

thats a very good point, one i have considered when flying to Le touq, but wehn I don my 5mm wetsuit and toddle down the beach in cornwall I generally break out in a sweat and quickly STINK! I suppose you could just put the legs on and get in to the top part once in the water but its easier said than done. of course, once in the water it means you have a good two to three hrs before you (or me in mine) get cold. I'm not sure my passengers would all be up for dressing up in rubber and neoprene and climbing into a such a small and cozy cabin!!

[The man formerly known as]

Dude,

ISE has more or less said it all. The Channel islands are fantastic, cheap and very accessible. I've given up going north on trips, I just head for the coast every time.

Remember that the crossing is only 2 or 3 time the Le Touquet distance and no-one worries about that. The only other safety feature I would recommend is another engine.(Less inconvenient than immersion suits).

As for the water temperature it is about 10 degrees all year round so the time of year should not affect your decision.

Weather the the CIs is always iffy, even in summer. I plan to get to Alderney 6 times this year and made it only once. Their waather is usually 40 kts in fog.

If you want a copilot to do your first trip with I would be happy to go.

[CaptAirProx]

Did A-Level Geography but don't know what the average sea temps are but I do know that at this time of year they are at their best. Its during Feb/March they are at their coldest. Remember sea with the North Atlantic Drift et all will stay warm a lot longer than the land/air around it. If your good at nav and using a VOR why not go west of N866 and join CI CTR 6-10Nm west of ORTAC. You can cross at flight level nose bleed with a much reduce over water ditching period. But you must keep clear of danger areas and the airway. During the week Bournemouth and then Plymouth Mil with give you a RIS and danger area crossing if you drift too far west and during weekends they are normally closed. Then the channel is your oyster. I've had a RIS from Plymouth down at 1500'msl mid channel during pants weather. They have excellent radar coverage for the ranges and if you ask nicely and they are not busy on the range or another freq the normally oblige. In fact when the range is busy they will normally get you to squawk to help you avoid the danger areas. I used to fly fruit and veg that way all the time to Alderney. I have recently been told that the lowest level allocated by LATCC on N866 is F060. This may well mean a raising of the N866 base from F035 shortly. Who knows. My philosophy is - it will happen when it happens, be prepared. I always carry a handheld VHF in a marine radio water tight cover. This means at least if you survive the ditch, get out bob in the water or raft, at least you can talk to the commercials above you or the homing search and rescue VDF. Becomes a good backup when your VHF craps out IMC and can at least ask for an SRA. I will always choose the channel islands every time. A bit of continental feel without the continentals!!! Oops. Sorry the French!

[arewethereyet]

So could you please tell me when you get fog at 40 kts. I think you need to read some met books :rolleyes: :confused:

[Stampe]

Are we there yet!! congratulations on making your first post so negative exactly the sort of post that is ruining this site.The gentleman who quotes 40 knot fog is indeed quoting weather rhat can afflict the CI with low vis in strong winds due I believe to the lifting effect of the Islands on extremely moist air. I note you are a SD360 FO. so obviously starting out in aviation, listen to what other people say before rubbishing it immediately.40 knot fog is exactly how possible Channel island weather was described to me by extremely experienced skippers when I started my Commercial career flying Viscounts to the islands 20 years ago.This sort of info is well worth listening to,knowledge doesn,t only come from books.Free exchange of knowledge is the great strength of this site!!.Your fresh ATPL is actually a licence to learn nothing more!!.

[ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: Stampe ]

[The man formerly known as]

Stampe, thanks for the support.

Ok I know its not technically fog, more orographic cloud but if you're in it it might as well be fog.

[Kirstey]

Stampe

Hope you got as much pleasure from writing that as I did from reading it!!

always good to see arrogance shot down by civility and common sence!

[CaptAirProx]

Stampe - I think its called pi**ing on someone elses fireworks, with true style and intellect. Well done!

Just to add further thought. If its RVR's quoted, its fog in my book, 40kts or not.

[M.Mouse]

40kts...pah!

When I was lad based at Leeds/Bradford we called 40kt fog VMC.

Now 60kts in 200 metres, thats fog.

[wysiwyg]

Mouse - did Leeds Bradford have a Cat3 ILS when you were a lad then? If so what were your autoland wind limits? ;)
Pah, wimps...I landed in the channels islands in 75kts on Xmas eve a couple of years ago. I never knew adrenaline was brown!

[Julian]

And I lived in a cardboard box in the middle og the M1 :D

[M.Mouse]

wyswyg

Nay lad. Cat 1 only. We flew super shed in them days. Had autopilot but that were for nancies. Usually hand flew with one hand to decision height whilst still finishing breakfast and that was with 70 kt wind straight across.

Aye, them were the days.

(With apologies to the originator of this thread although you will note I did make a sensible post earlier on!)

[englishal]

Apparently Bond helicopters in Aberdeen sell off the old survival suits used when ferrying people out to the rigs. Some of 'em are quite comfortable Gortex types....Last time I went to jersey Went EGHH NEDUL ORTAC then was vectored sort of south...Very easy, anyone who's used to flying in Socal should find it all very familiar..The only thing I find a bit disconcerting is crossing the channel at 3000', would rather head up to 9k myself.....

[wysiwyg]

Mouse........and wher was the other hand? :eek: