Tailwheel Conversion Course

[tacpot]

I'm in need of a tailwheel conversion course - can anyone recommend a good School/Instructor/Aircraft combination, given that I'm looking to do my tailwheel flying in a Aeronca Chief-type a/c.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Tricky Woo]

There're quite a few courses spread around the UK. Give us a few clues as to your whereabouts and I'm sure you'll be inundated with suggestions.

TW

[maxalpha]

well how about a citabria there is a nice one at turweston aeroclub , good instructor as well, mike robinson the cfi :D

[Mr moto]

Tiger Club, Headcorn, Kent.

Apart from being a major part of GA history in the UK, they also have the advantage that they have several tailwheel types which you can then gain further experience on.
First the Cub, then maybe the Jodel, then Tiger Moth, then Stampe or Turbulent.

[FNG]

If in or near London, you could try Ian Marshall on the White Waltham Super Cub.

[Richard49]

okay well I am attending Northampton Flying school at the end of August to do the AOPA basic Aerobatic course. Since I've not flown a tailwheel before the first part is a conversion uing a PIPER Cub and then it's a PITTS Conversion followed by the actual course itself, I'll keep you posted on my progress and give you feedback as to how they are as a flying school, they've allocated me 5 hours for the tailwheel conversion on the PIPER club to give you some kind of indication and as far as pricing goes, they seem more than reasonable.

:eek:

[tacpot]

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm based in the North Midlands, but I'm very willing to travel and stay overnight for this training. Thanks esp. to Richard49 for the promise of feedback on Northampton Flying School and the tailwheel conversion on the Cub.

Actually, the Cub sounds like an ideal aircraft for my situation - know there are a number of Super-Cubs used for tailwheel training, but these seems relatively powerful compared to the type I expect to be flying. Any comments?

Cheers

tacpot

[Tricky Woo]

tacpot,

Talk to Lindsay Brown at Rural Flying Corps (RFC), Bourn, Cambridgeshire. He's got a J3 Cub there, which no one could ever accuse of being over-powered.

TW

[Lowtimer]

As you're in the North Midlands you must be close the Tatenhill, which is a few miles to the east of Stafford. I've never flow there but have heard good things about the setup. They have a nice looking Decathlon, one of the descendants of the Aeronca. It is not only a tail dragger with decent performance but also aerobatic. I flew one in the USA a few years ago and found it very appealing.

Try: http://www.tatenhill-aviation.co.uk/aircraft/main.htm for details.

[Salvador]

Northants School of Flying is a good choice. In addition to the Cub and Pitts S2A they also have a Tiger Moth. Nice people. Try to fly with Frank the CFI. Very canny.

[FlyingForFun]

Book recommendation:

"The Compleat (sic) Taildragger" by Harvey Plourde - published privately by his widow, so your local library won't be able to get hold of it, but it's available from TransAir and probably several other pilot shops.

Just finished off the last chapter this weekend. Haven't started tail-dragger training yet, so I don't know how useful it is. (Will start next month, though.) But I do know that it's everything I've ever read about flying tail-draggers all rolled into one, with lots of extra info that I've never read anywhere else.

If you're wondering about the title, the spelling is apparently a reference to an extremely old book on angling by some bloke I've never heard of, but FNG can fill you in with the details.

And if anyone has the book and flies tail-draggers, I'd be interested to hear what you think about control positioning while taxying - the position of the controls Plourde suggests for use when turning corners (to get the wind to help you around the corner) is different to everything else I've read (which concentrates on stopping the aeroplane from tipping over). Have you tried both methods? And if so, which do you use? Or is it a combination?

FFF
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[stiknruda]

I mostly fly taildraggers (Pitts :D, Tigers :)and Cubs/Chiefs ;)) and would recommend Plourde and obviously Langesweiche, too!

I must confess that I don't use Plourde's methodology for primary control surfaces on the ground but that is probably because the system that I was taught/brainwashed as an ab-initio stude has always worked well.

Frank at Northants is good, but so are many others.

Stik

edited to sort out the graemlins

[ 20 August 2001: Message edited by: stiknruda ]

[kabz]

As far as taxiing goes :

Into headwinds and crosswinds - stick always full back and ailerons into the wind. After a while you just get to feel it.

With tailwinds - I prefer to do the same thing. I have been taught to 'dive away' just like a Cessna, but the first time I tried with an actual 10 kt tailwind, I almost groundlooped on the taxiway. I figure the propblast overwhelms the effect of the wind...

[poetpilot]

depends how much propblast there is!!! I was turning 360 on a pan prior to lining up with stick back and as the wind got on my tail it lifted it.

Chopped the mags and stopped before the prop hit the ground. I think I must have been reducing power as I completed the turn.

Why was I turning 360? because it was weathercocking when I tried to turn the short way round. Sometimes it's easier to go with the flow......

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

You can tell by the 'feel' of the elevator whether tailwaind or propwash is stronger. If the elevator trails in the neural position propwash is stronger - keep the stick back. If you have to hold the stick to prevent it going to full up or full down, tailwind is stronger - keep the stick forward. This only applies for a given relative wind, aircraft direction, and power setting - so be prepared to for the changes that will happen and act accordingly.

The Chipmunk is usually quite benign in that it doesn't tend to lift the tail unexpectedly - but it can happen. I once turned downwind on the apron with 'taxy' brake set. The rudder blew hard over to the left, the left brake applied itself hard, and the tail lifted a tad. I cenralised the rudder immediately and all was well. Now I ensure that in strong winds I have the rudder positivly under control at all times.

SSD

[poetpilot]

Personally I always have the elevator in the neural position !!!! eg I'm thinking about it all the time!!!!

Sorry to be pedantic about your spolling Soggy Ship Drover...... :-)

[FNG]

As for doing it on a Cub instead of a Super Cub, good idea. Flying doctors should prescribe 30 minutes of Cub flying, door open, on a summer evening as a panacea for all ills. Bourn is a pleasant place, (although its non flying facilities are very basic) and Lindsay is a nice bloke. Only slight drawback perhaps is that the runways are hard (knobbly ex WW2 asphalt). Cubs like grass better. One further suggestion, therefore: Mike Derrett, who teaches on the Moths at Cambridge but also on the Cub at Andrewsfield, which is a pleasant grass strip in a pretty part of Essex.

[Tricky Woo]

FNG,

When I popped there a few months ago, the SuperCub was no longer at Andrewsfield.

I did about ten hours in Lindsay's J3 Cub at Bourn. One of the best experiences of my life, great aircraft, great flying, great instructor. The hard runways actually helped, seeing as landing a J3 properly even on grass is hard enough at the best of times. Chippy and SuperCub on grass was a doddle after that.

A happy Lindsay is one who's got a victim in front of him, preferably fighting a nasty crosswind. If the wind is down the runway, then he'll simply make you use the other. Rascal. I can still hear him shouting "Well done, son" or "Keep the bloody stick still!" with engine noise and wind whizzing past my right arm.

No radio, no intercom, no headphones, door open, cork-on-a-stick fuel guage, no buttons to press, not much to take one's attention from the business of flying.

TW (sigh)

[tacpot]

Thanks for the information above.

I went flying in the taildragger I'm looking at buying a share in this week - I can totally relate to the 'simplicity' of the experience mentioned by Tricky Woo and FNG. Had a lovely, if short, flight around the local area, getting use to a aircraft that needs the sticky-up bit at the back to actually be used!

But the experience raised another question - about handswinging props. The engine, a C-90 had been run earlier in the evening, and so was warm. The vendor was swinging the prop, and another group member was in the cockpit. The engine was reluctant to start, and after about 5-6 swings, the vendor had to give up (puffed out!) and swap with the chap in the cockpit, who 4-5 swings later got the engine running. (The engine ran very sweetly thorugh the whole of the outing). But I expect to be doing most on my flying in this particular aircraft solo. I don't want to have to carry a nightclub bouncer around with me, to act as a starter motor. What do people think about small guys starting C-90's by hand? I'm 5'6" and weight 130lbs. Can I do it without knackering myself, and more importantly, can I do it safely, single-handedly?

I had envisaged using chocks, brakes, tiedowns, and a stout rope affixed between the tailwheel and an immovable object, to secure the aircraft. So far the owning group have not commented on this aspect, altough I am being sent the group "Rules" shortly - it may say no single-pilot starting allowed - so the problem will go away entirely.

I'm taking advice from other sources as well, and shall be having instruction on hand-swinging on this a/c which should allow me to judge whether it's viable, but as with all such situations you can never know too much, or not be able to benefit from somebody else's experience.


:eek: tacpot

[stiknruda]

Tacpot,

My curry flavoured Chief (HAL26 Pushpak) has a C90 on the front and has no electrics, either.

When cold the engins starts willingly if suitably primed. Most of these engines are idiosyncratic enough to require different amounts of primer! I use between 3 and 5 depending on OAT and period since last run.

When warm the same C90 can be a little recalcitrant and may need several goes (ten plus swings is not uncommon.)
However, it has always started eventually!

Actually swinging it is not a test of strength - they will turn over without Schwarzenneger-like input, it really is technique, which I am sure that you will quickly master.

Great aeroplane - buy your share, enjoy some inexpensive flying in an aeroplane that can take you all over Europe.

After a hundred hours in mine, I decided that I was probably about right to start to fly some less benign tailwheel types. :eek: The Chief will give you a good intro to tailwheel technique and possibly farmstrip flying, too.


Stik :D

[SlipSlider]

tacpot, I'm 5'8" and 136 lbs, similar to yourself. I found this was absolutely not a problem when swinging a C85 on a Champ. Yes, sometimes the b*-thing will make you work up a sweat to start it, but thats all part of the fun. Hand-swinging at first can be very daunting, but all I can say is don't do anything quickly, always think about it. I strongly recommend wearing thick glove(s), such as biker's, especially if the prop is metal, as the trailing edge is sharper than wood.
BTW low pilot weight = more baggage / fuel! :D
PS Pushpak pilots are welcome in the Aeronca UK club as well.

[stiknruda]

Slipslider - have just started recovering the Pushpak, once she is airworthy again, I promise that I'll bring her to one of those legendary Aeronca UK fly-ins.

Stik

[FlyingForFun]

Well, I've just booked my first taildragger lesson. It's on Sep 16th (2 weeks time), and it's in the Super Cub at White Waltham - and I can't wait!

I'm sure I'll be reporting back immediately afterwards, and I expect you'll be able to see my grin in my post :D

Real flying - here I come!

FFF
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[tacpot]

I had a go at starting the a/c last week - dead easy. Don't know what all the fuss was about! Of course the engine was cold, and was obviously primed just right. The vendor (and the engineer I took to look at the a/c) gave me instructions on how to start the engine, and it did first time!

I've also got a sound set of instructions for starting it solo - which should mean I don't appear in the accident statistics.

So I've gone ahead and bought a quarter share the aircraft. It's a HAL-26 Pushpak, like Stiknruda's.

Now, I must get that Tailwheel course booked (and join the PFA)

tacpot
Aircraft Owner :) :) :)

[stiknruda]

TACPOT - drop me an e-mail with a phone number and we'll speak about Pushpak's - a quick check in my log book shows just over 150hrs on Hindustan's best hi wing!

If I can help you -I will


Stik