Can't quite get it right!

[gingernut]

I have spent most of my life round airfields being fascinated by aviation. I came across this site last year and I have made a few contributions, mostly in to the medical forum, as this is my area of expertise ! I finally decided to take the plunge in the spring of this year, and commenced flying training. I can honestly say that I have never done anything so challenging/exhilerating/exciting but sometimes so bloody frustrating, in my life! I have notched up about 20 hours in a C172 so far. My progress has been slow and steady so far, but I seem to have reached a "block" which I am finding difficult to overcome. My intructor seems to think that my problems stem from a lack of co-ordination, which appears to be manifesting itself in innacurate flying and poor (bumpy!) landings. For the first time last week I felt quite low about the situation, but for what I lack in skills, I will make up for with detrmination. Am I being unrealistic at this fairly early stage in my training, or should I be expecting more from myself? Your comments would be appreciated!

[FlyingForFun]

gingernut,

Welcome to the wonderful world of flying!

Just about everyone I've ever spoken to comes across this "plateau", it's certainly nothing to worry about. It usually happens shortly before solo - is that roughly where you are now?

I don't believe that poor coordination should be a big problem. If it was, I'd never have got my PPL, that's for sure! Many years ago myself and several friends all learnt to juggle - my friends were all masters within a few weeks, and it took me 4 months before I could keep 3 balls going!

You say your progress has been slow - how slow? I wonder if it would be a good idea to book a week off work, and spend the week flying 1 or 2 hours a day? At this time of year, you'd have to check the weather forecasts carefully (and I hope you have a job where you can change your mind about taking a week off at the last minute!) - but that's exactly what I did when I reached my "plateau". I flew for an hour a day, and then worked on my Air Law. On the Friday, I passed the Air Law exam, and on the Saturday I flew solo - and believe me, it's worth it!

There are a few instructors who read this forum that I'm sure can give you advice re. bumpy landings, but in my un-educated opinion, it's most likely to be because you can't see the correct picture for the landing, therefore you're landing too soon? The only solution to this is to keep flying, and eventually it will click into place. Some people say to look right down the end of the runway, or to look out the side window instead of in front, as you're in the flare - they didn't work for me, but if they work for you, great.

Most important, though, is to stick with it and not give up - you will get there in the end!

FFF
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[Genghis the Engineer]

If you are a medic, you are no doubt well educated and used to thinking carefully about what you're doing (if you aren't, I hope that you're not my GP anyway). I'm an engineer and am much the same, and equally took a very long time to learn to fly.

The problem with people like you and I is we think too hard about what should actually be a skill - it's a bit like what sport coaches call "body memory". You need to train rather than educate yourself in the handling part of flying. This is very different to the way you learned your medical skills by and large.

I suggest talking to your instructor about this, and whilst learning think about one item at a time only - speed control, attitude control, whatever - just get one thing right at a time. It (eventually) worked for me, and actually if you are getting one or two things right the rest tends to fall naturally into place.

A good book on the process of learning skills like this (albeit that it doesn't mention flying at-all) is "the inner game of tennis" which is a bible for most sports coaches, it might help.

G

N.B. The good news is that after the long slog to learn basic skills, you may find that the more advanced stuff, which requires more analytical ability, comes much more naturally to you than many others who got to first solo quicker. Don't give up, I took 2 years to get my PPL but now fly 100hrs a year, including some low grade test flying.

[Fuji Abound]

It is a funny thing but I think Genghis is spot on. Sadly, it doesnt perhaps help alot because that is the way we are made and you cant easily convince yourself to analyse the situation any less.

I reckon landings are an art form! - thats the fun of it. If that is your major problem read the previous postings on this site about landings - they were very good - maybe something there that just clicks with you.

All the best.

[Final 3 Greens]

Gingernut

Nil deperandum. Persistence is a wonderful thing.

If you're like me, the more you fly, the more you'll become aware of your limitations. Strangely enough, everyone else will compliment you on how your flying is improving.

Fuji hits the nail on the head, landing is an art form, but you can learn from the heavy metal boys in this respect. Their training captains don't look for "greasers", just consistently safe touchdowns.

As an airline training captain, who very kindly spent some time working with me on my instrument skills said to me after a difficult session "you're a much better pilot than I'm a management consultant" and I suspect that you maybe comparing your skills/experience in your day job with your hobby and feeling frustrated, which is the point that my mentor was making to me.

Anyway, let me compliment you on taking the plunge and learning ot fly.... I look forward to seeing your "ive passed" message up in due course.

;) F3G

[paulo]

KEEP GOING!!

At 20 hours I too was having a nightmare with landings. At 30, they started to tidy up. At 40, I could grease at least 50%.

The thing that really did it for me was a new instructor that happened to be amazingly calm and reassuring. That and the enduring advice (can't remember who from) - "don't try and land, just flare then try and fly it down the runway" (power off obviously!).

It does click, and like many of these sorts of things, you may well find it clicks in a sudden and surprising short amount of time.

[Lowtimer]

Gingernut -
Stick to it. Everyone's different, and we all have areas of strength and weakness.
Paulo said:
"At 20 hours I too was having a nightmare with landings. At 30, they started to tidy up. At 40, I could grease at least 50%."
I'd say he's probably a quicker learner than me at that particular art, and maybe there are different things I've picked up more rapidly than him. In my own case (35 hours into the PPL course, with about 40 hours previous gliding & taildragger experience a couple of decades ago) I've greased exactly *one* landing, out of the 80-odd I've probably now done in the PA-28-161. Yet I never had much trouble landing a glider, or a Chippie, on grass. Mind you, I was younger then :)
Progress is not always at a continuous rate - you may be closer than you think to suddenly "getting it".
(edited for rotten typing)

[ 12 October 2001: Message edited by: Lowtimer ]

[bingoboy]

I had a similar tricky time during my PPL although by this time I was solo. I spent many a happy circuit session making several cock-ups and go arounds in succession. Reckoned that for a few hours I was landing off about 25% of approaches. Instructor was quite relaxed and said at least I recognized a balls up and had the sense to open up off my bounces. Got it right in the end (mostly) and have enjoyed many a happy approach ever since. Still its still a challenge and one that can be very very rewarding.

[aztec25]

For what it's worth I agree with some of the replies already posted. I reached a plateau and 'almost' went solo at 16 hours! It was 23 before I eventually did.
I remember that Saturday morning as if it was yesterday (1995) - my usual instructor couldn't take my up as he was doing a flight test so I went up with another instructor, who I knew well enough but had never flown with. He made me look at the full picture in a slightly different way - we did three circuits and then he got out and just said 'ok just go and do that again!' I had got bogged down with the detail of what I was seeing and looking for - look at the whole picture.
Good luck and be ready for a much faster climb when that right hand seat is empty:-)

[stiknruda]

been there done that got the T-shirt!

several hundred hours ago I too plateau'd

however I persevered and can confidently admit that.... :rolleyes:

nowadays I am still competent at ******ing up a landing - as the chap on the tractor who saw me bounce a taildragger down a strip of grass towards him today will testify!

It is all a matter of judgement - only prob is that whilst I'm PIC, I'm the judge!! :eek:

Keep at it - you'll master it; when you do, can I have some hints/tips, pse?


Stik

[John Farley]

What a super thread. No bum advice and no stupid comments.

Would that all the forums were as good!

[Code Blue]

gingernut:

I came to aviation late and found exactly the same problem you describe. What helped for me was a temporary change of plane - I went for an old C-150 which seemed to know how I should do it! I suspect that it really came down to the things mentioned here already and covered. Try and pick one aspect of flying or landing- speed control for example and focus on that. Once you get that right try something else, altitude control or getting the touchdown spot precise. It will come - if I can get there anyone can.

Precision comes with practice - it's not like bookwork which was the mainstay of my earlier learning. The idea of a 'week of flying' worked well for me also.

Landings and circuits are a zen like activity, a bit like golf - there is no such thing as a perfect circuit. Something(s) can always be improved :rolleyes:

BTW John Farley wrote a lovely exposition on one of the previous landing threads. Perhaps you could try the search function if the server load allows :rolleyes:

Keep safe
rgds
CB

[AC-DC]

I have logged more than 500h during my 4 years of flying. Do you think that any of mine is a greaser? I wish. Don't give up. To add to Ghengins post, years ago I came across an article that claimed that highly educated people find tasks like driving much more difficult because they are trained to think and analyse. So stop thinking!! :D

[Evo7]

John Farley

Good here, isn't it? When I first started suffering from my (sadly continuing) inability to land the darn thing I got bucketloads of advice here, all helpful. Lack of time recently (and the bloomin' weather - lost two lessons in a row :( ) has stopped me putting it all into practice, but it really got me thinking about what I was doing. Thanks, chaps!

[kabz]

I wouldn't worry too much, but one thing to do is try and minimize your workload...

1. trim the aircraft to fly at the right speed on approach.
2. get used to holding the aircraft in the right descent attitude without obsessing or chasing the airspeed too much.
3. make sure you have a good feel of where to flare. There is some great info on this if you search. I like to flare about two secs before I would otherwise crash...
4. You will need to try and acquire a feel for how near the runway you are, post-flare. A cushion or two under you, and keeping one eye out the side window will help with this.

Some of this will work. It mostly works for me, though not always, as anyone who witnessed me bouncing off runway 19 at Waco on Sunday will testify. Luckily, adding power and setting it up again let me get it down, though I was a bit breathless after ...

[gingernut]

FANTASTIC...thanks for putting it all into perspective! I guess this is where the forum comes into its own. Its easy to become a little "insular" sometimes, but the shear number of replies (13 so far) is reassuring in itself. Lots of helpful tips also, but most of all, I think that the tone of all your replies will directly affect my future in flying ! Cheers, and watch this space !

[Evo7]

Gingernut

Take a look at some of the replies in
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000746&p=

HTH.

[Vfrpilotpb]

Hi Gingernut,

Remember when you first sat astride a bicycle, well its nearly the same, just patiance, I very nearly gave up on Heli training , I could not get the hover, I was like a drunk with a broken leg, but I was trying so hard I lost the ability to reason with myself, CFI told me we were stopping for a brew, gave me a little talking to , about the grip of death, and then we went out again, it very nearly clicked there and then, but it did by the next two lessons, so dont even consider giving up, relax allow your mind to soak it all in and just get on with it, we've all been there, some longer than others, but look what you'll miss if you give up. Let us know how you get on!

;) ;)

[Atlanta]

Let me say first of all that the advice so far given by contributors to this thread is all good and I would not disagree with any of it.
As an additional suggestion, however, if all else fails try having the odd hour or so with a different instructor. Try to find someone from a different background.
For example, if your present instructor is ex military, find a civilian; if your present instructor is a civilian look for someone from the military.
You may find that someone else might teach the things you find difficult in a different way that may help it 'click'.

[Gaza]

I echo the advice to try to do a few consecutive days. I did a 3 week course in the US and flying all day every day soon builds up your confidence and smooths the landings.

I learned on 150/152's which are very forgiving.

Solo'd at 16.2 hours. One of the best feelings I've ever had, but also one of the most nerve racking!