What is a "radiotelephone conversation"?

[ramzez]

Annex 10, vol 2, 5.2.1.9.3 States: End of conversation. A radiotelephone conversation shall be terminated by the receiving station using its own call sign.

What is considered to be a radiotelephone conversation? Are the two examples below considered to be conversations and therefore ended correctly?

ATC: Fastair 123, turn left heading 180
A/C: Left heading 180, Fastair 123

A/C: Fastair 312, ready for visual approach
ATC: Fastair 312, Radar

[Capt Claret]

I don't know the answer to your question, and here at the Centre of the Universe (Dunnunda) the terminoloy could be different to that of the Olde Country but I'd take your examples to be radio conversation.

I'd assume a radiotelephone conversation to be one where one conversant is speaking via radio, to the other conversant, via a radio to terrestrial telephone system. The only such systems I've had experience with have been HF, with the attendant interferences of HF Rx/Tx.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

In the second example, ATC would not respond in that manner.. They would probably say: "Fastair 312, cleared for visual approach".

Somewhere in UK paperwork I believe it says that ATC needs only to identify on first transmission so you don't get daft transmissions like "Fastair 123, take the next right turn to the holding point and follow the 747, Longmoor Ground Control", otherwise everything would grind to a halt.

Your profile reveals nothing so one assumes you have no experience of aviation operations? It would be impractical for ATC to repeat their callsigns after every transmission so, IMHO, once contact has been established the repeated transmissions to a particular aircraft constitute one "converstation".

[MPN11]

It's a new one on me ... but then most things are these days.

I have no recollection, either in the Mil or Civ world, of signing off with the Unit c/s. Possibly "G'day Golf 42". But that was it.

Modern stuff ... it should be binned :cool:

[ZOOKER]

ramzez,
The first example looks like standard phraseology.
The second example looks like a load of cobblers.

[Tower Ranger]

The second one should read;

ATC: Fastair 312, nice try! Continue heading three zero zero, you are still number seven, four zero track miles from touchdown.

[ramzez]

to Heathrow Director: I have about 10 years as a pilot and ATCO.

I admit that the second example is crap but I couldn't figure out a better one in a hurry. The point was that the ATC doesn't give visual immediatelly. Roger would be a better answer of course.

Maybe I didn't explain why I started this thread properly. I'm trying to figure out what this chapter in annex means and a few good examples. If every clearance is a conversation then everything would grind to a halt like Heathrow Director said. If a conversation starts when an aircraft checks in a frequency and ends when a frequency change is given then it kind of makes sense like in the example below.

ATC: Fastair 123, contact xxx control 123.325
A/C: 123.325, Fastair 123 (receiving station terminates with its call sign and ends readback at the same time)

I found the following from UK CAA CAP413 18th edition (I'm not british myself):
The following method of ending conversations is not used in UK. ‘A
radiotelephone conversation shall be terminated by the receiving station
using its own callsign’ (ICAO). In the UK the word OUT is used to
indicate that the transmission has ended and no response is expected.
When there little possibility of confusion or misunderstanding, the word OUT is normally omitted.