Short field advice Cessna 150

[Lemoncake]

Hello Guys and Girls,

I'm a new PPL flying a 150 out of a 450 metre grass strip, seeking a spot of advice. I learnt to fly in the states on long concrete runways in the 152 and on a standard approach trained to use 30 degree flap on short final. Now, with the 150 I have the 40 degree option (quite handy for the short field) How often would you guys and gals use 40 degree flap for a short field landing? I ask this with a botched landing go-around scenario in mind. Any comments would be gladly received.

[Kermit 180]

Follow the AFM/POH recommendations. If it says full flap, use full flap. However, to allow for other variables (windshear, etc) you may elect to use less flap or a slightly faster approach speed. But be careful.

The 150 with it's little Continental isn't best known for it's power output, and with carburettor heat applied, engine output can be significantly reduced.

My advice, if you're nervous or not sure about the 150, practice landing the aeroplane in various conditions on a longer grass strip until you are confident and/or proficient enough to try the 450m one. Try going around at a sensible height to see how it handles for yourself.

Kermie :)

[Yogi-Bear]

Once upon a time two of us flew around nearly every strip in the Orkneys and Shetlands in a tired C150, alternating legs between us. :) No problem once you've got it sussed. :cool: Look at the LDA/TORA for their grass RWs (not the tarmac ones that have been built since) in your Pooleys or equiv. Actually, the under-powered take-off is more of a problem than the landing. :rolleyes: Like Kermit says, work up to it in stages. ;)

[ 07 August 2001: Message edited by: Yogi-Bear ]

[Final 3 Greens]

A LDA of 450m in principle will not be a problem for the C150, it's your ability and confidence in that ability that counts. Kermie's suggestion about practising on a longer runway makes sense. You need to be able to land "on the numbers" every time and to know this.

Three issues to bear in mind:

1 If you use flaps 40, your roundout will take more back pressure than flaps 30 and the landing attitude will be nose higher. You need to adjust to the picture

2 If you suffer a baulked landing and have to go around, you will need to lose 20 degrees of flaps pretty instantly (as well as the carb heat) to help you climb away. Many 150s do not have gated flap controls, so you need to be very confident that you can set f20 whilst still flying the aeroplane. If you set f17 or 23 its not going to be an issue, but you need to be quick, sure fingered and not distracted from flying.

3 Don't forget either that damp grass can lengthen the landing (and take off)run, as can the length of the grass. The CAA publish a leaflet on factoring take off and landing runs and this is well worth a look.

Its also worth practising with a local instructor who's fees will pay back many times over with experience of the locale and micro climate etc.... things that can make all the difference when operating out of a short field.

As a confidence builder, let me say that once put a C172 into a 360M strip, albeit with a 20kt headwind .... and got out again.

Enjoy!

[Lemoncake]

Thankyou all. Excellent advice all round!! So far I've only flown in and out of the strip in either dead calm conditions or with a steady headwind straight down the runway. I certainly won't be rushing things in as far as x-wind landings are concerned!

Final 3 Greens - The 150 I fly does not have gated flap controls, and one of my worrries did concern activating the flap switch, keeping an eye on the flap position indicator (above left) for 20 degree flap, carb air cold and full power whilst keeping an eye on the airspeed and getting a positive rate of climb. This will definately be a procedure I simulate on the ground and practice in the air at altitude. Thanks for the tips.

[ 07 August 2001: Message edited by: Lemoncake ]

[Final 3 Greens]

Lemoncake

When I did some hours on 150s, my instructor got me to count "100,200 etc" as I toggled the flap switch.

With a bit of practice I learned that 300 was about flaps 0 to 10 at the speed I spoke the words! Also 40 to 20 was about 500 ... note that the flaps tend to run on slightly after you release the switch.

I hope that this little gem might help you as well, as it allows for flap retraction to a reasonably accurate degree without spending too much time looking over to your left.

Does your 150 have a switch that returns to neutral (i.e. no extension or retraction)- or does it keep feeding the flaps until you manually centre it? That's another little quirk to be aware of with some 150s.

F3G :D

[ 07 August 2001: Message edited by: Final 3 Greens ]

[Lemoncake]

Final 3 Greens,

The switch does need to be placed in a neutral position to stop retraction, and pushed and held down to extend the flaps. That advice is therefore very much appreciated. Just popping an email over to you.

[Genghis the Engineer]

If you're using 40 flap, there's no reason you shouldn't select it quite high and fly a long steep approach. The thing will come down like a brick in that setting, although if you're used to a 152 with 30 flap, it's disconcertingly nose-down. Because it's high drag, you can come down very steeply without the airspeed getting dangerously high.

I'd practice the picture, 40 flap, idle, steep approach, to a precise point on a longer runway where you've room for error a reasonable number of times until you're confident of your ability to get it right. If you need really good precision (which frankly you shouldn't with 450m, which is quite a lot) a constant aspect approach also helps.

The main problem with 40 flap on a short runway, is getting it up fast enough if you want to do a go-around, and I wouldn't even contemplate touch and goes on that length of runway.

G

[Lemoncake]

Thanks Ghengis. Until now I've been flying a constant aspect approach when landing from the East. The steep approach will be more handy when I'm approaching from the West, as the strip has wires just short of the threshold. With a constant aspect approach from the West an engine failure on short final wouldn't be very nice, so I'll make sure I get some practice in on some steep ones. :)

[arrow2]

D,

How are you? All good advice here. The only thing I would add is to fly the airspeed for a short field landing as per the POH as accurately as possible down final. I flew a C150E for more than 15 years out of all types of field, the shortest I think was Chilbolton which I think was 450 metres.I used to wait until I was 99.9% sure that a go-around would not be required before selecting 40 degrees due to limited going up performance with that setting! However they land on a sixpence with full flap.

Your dad gave me a trip in his Ballerit 2 weeks ago (brilliant fun - the strange yaw / roll connectivity takes a little getting used to though) and I must admit that sitting at the end of the strip looking towards the wires I would not wish to be sitting in my P28R at that point!!!

A2

[Lemoncake]

Hi A2,

I'm fine thanks. Sound advice again. Congratulations on hitting Double Top :D Am glad you enjoyed the Ballerit...I love it!! Have a great trip down to France and see you soon.

[LowNSlow]

With 40 flap and a stuka like approach, a small burst of power can cushion an unseemly arrival :D

It seems everbody has flown a 150 at some point in their flying careers. C'mon admit it, they ARE fun :D :D