The Dreaded SKILLS TEST - any info, etc....

[G_STRING]

Hoping for the following off those of you who have already gone through the above.. .. .Can anyone give me a 'break down' of their skills test, (sort of blow by blow) - what they had to do, how it went on the day, etc.... .. .Obviously, I have been told what to expect, but I'm nervous as hell about this - the last obstacle standing between me and the PPL licence.. .. .It would be interesting to hear how other people fared on the day, if you all passed first time, or had to retake something again.. .. .ANY info / stories / help v. much appreciated. .. .Thanks

[FlyingForFun]

G_String,. .. .Good luck! Nothing to be worried about, though - just do all the things you've learnt to do over the last 50-or-so hours.. .. .But, for what it's worth, here's how my skills test went.. .. .You can, if you want (or sometimes if weather conditions dictate), opt to do the test in two parts. This is what I did - navigation first, followed by lunch at Turweston, then the general handling.. .. .The night before the test, I met with the examiner for a beer. This was the examiners suggestion, I don't know how many other examiners do this, but I thought it was a great idea. It enabled me to get to know him a little, and hence be more relaxed about flying with him. Also gave him a chance to tell me what to expect. Mostly I knew what to expect already, but there were a couple of minor things that were very helpful. For example, descending steep turns - my instructor showed me how to do these with power off, explaining that it was useful for making tight turns into a field if you have an engine failure. Examiner prefered to keep descent rate to less than 1000fpm, which requires a little power. Had he not told me this beforehand, I'd have done it the way my instructor told me, and had problems keeping the descent rate in the range the examiner likes it - only a small point, but nice to know.. .. .Turned up nice and early the next morning for the test. Found the examiner, he gave me a route to plan - two legs. Went away and did all the usual flight planning. I was a little stressed about this, because I'd always found out from my instructor what route I'd be flying well in advance, and done most of the flight planning the night before - this was the first time I'd done all the flight planning the morning of the flight. But got it all finished with plenty of time to spare, so wasn't a problem at all.. .. .Took off, and started the first leg. The leg took us through Brize class D. Got clearance for this, examiner asked how I'd know when I was in Class D so I pointed out on the chart a large lake close to the boundary, then pointed to a lake in the distance and told him that was probably it, but I'd confirm once we got closer.. .. .Once in Class D, hear the Red Arrows get clearance to transit the zone, in the opposite direction to us. We were at something like 3000', they were at something like 1000' - we both looked, but couldn't see them. After they were out of the zone, they stayed with Brize for a FIS. Brize told them they had multiple traffic, unknown height, in their 12 o'clock. They responded they had the traffic in sight, it was a couple of gliders. Wish I'd seen the look on the glider pilots faces when the Red Arrows went screaming past them!. .. .Turning point was Gloucester airport. Despite this being a very large airport, with enough nearby features to make it easy to find, I just could not see it. I knew the examiner could see it, because he was trying not to laugh at me, so I just kept flying the plane, looking out the window - and eventually spotted the airfield, about 1/2 mile off my left wing! So far so good.... .. .I turned onto the second leg of the cross-country, flew for a little way, then the examiner asked me to fly a certain heading. I flew his heading for a while, after which he asked me to fix my position. I used a VOR/DME, and indicated to the examiner where I was. He asked me to confirm from ground features, which I did. Then he told me to divert to Turweston. Since I already knew where I was, it was a case of pointing the plane in roughly the right direction and noting the time, then figuring out a more precise direction and an ETA.. .. .Turweston turned up right on schedule, and we tuned the radio in just in time to here a Pan call from an aircraft with a gear problem. We hung around outside the ATZ to let the other aircraft sort itself out (he landed without incident - I assume the problem was a faulty gear-down indicator), then joined the circuit.. .. .There was quite a strong cross-wind from the left at Turweston. I love White Waltham, and having 3 runways is generally a good thing, but it does mean that students get very little cross-wind practice, because there's nearly always a runway roughly into wind. The cross-wind at Turweston was within my capabilities, but even though I was fairly relaxed, the pressure meant I completely screwed it up. I used the de-crabbing technique, as taught by my instructor. But I began de-crabbing a little too early, and drifted to the right. Realising what was happening, I tried to put the crab back in, and ended up with the left-main touching the ground and bouncing back up while still drifting to the right and crabbed to the left. It wasn't pretty, and I decided I didn't want to see what would happen next - so I added power and went around. The next attempt was much better - not the best cross-wind landing ever, but we got down safely and heading for parking.. .. .Once we'd parked and paid the landing fees, we had lunch, and chatted about flying in general. I think it's a good idea to do the test in two parts - I think it would have been tough to maintain the level of concentration required for the whole test if I'd done it in one go.. .. .Lunch finished, we went back to the aeroplane and set off for the general handling part. This was just the standard set of stalls, slow flight, steep turns, descending steep turns (with a touch of power!), instrument flying, practice forced landings, etc, that I'd been doing with my instructor, and was no problem at all. The examiner did all the navigation during this part, so all you need to concentrate on is flying the manoevres. Eventually, we wound up at Stoken Church, and the examiner asked me if I recognised it. Of course I did - it's a regular navigation feature when going north from White Waltham - so I was told to head back home. Into the circuit at White Waltham, and we did a whole load of regular, short field, soft field, flapless, power-off, etc. approaches, all of which went fairly smoothly. I didn't have to do a go-around at this point, because I'd already demonstrated that I can do this, at Turweston!. .. .Afterwards, we de-briefed, which basically consisted of the examiner telling me that I was a pretty good pilot, but here are a couple of things I could do better. And he recommended I get some cross-wind practice in with an instructor as soon as possible!. .. .All in all, it was fairly harmless. I took his advice, and booked an 8am slot with an instructor. (White Waltham's flying order book allows the club's instructors to use a runway other than the official runway in use for cross-wind practice, if traffic permits. Although I've never actually seen this done, the instructor said we should fly at 8am, when there wouldn't be much traffic around - that way, we could pick the runway which had the most crosswind! As it happened, the wind was directly between two runways, so we had a reasonable cross-wind on the runway in use anyway.) Instructor suggested I try the wing-down method, which I found much easier than the de-crabbing method, and I've never had problems with cross-winds since. Decent tail-wheel training also helps with this!. .. .Hope that was interesting/helpful. But the main thing is not to get stressed - go out there, and just enjoy yourself! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> The examiner is there to get you through the test - not to try to trip you up. He's on your side.. .. .FFF. .---------

[BEagle]

As a UK/FE(PPL), I am somewhat alarmed at the suggestion to use 'some' power to recover from a spiral descent. That's a recipe for engine overspeed if ever I heard one...... .. .There are certain other points in your account that raise the eyebrow somewhat, but the Skill Test contains nothing which any applicant should find new to them.. .. .Just get stuck in and enjoy showing how competent you've become - that's really all we want to see! Out of interest, of the 28 JAR/FCL PPL Skill Tests I've conducted, only 1 has been a total fail and 5 have been partial passes. Whilst I'm lucky to have excellent FIs, this shows that the odds on passing are pretty good if you've been properly taught!. .. .Weak points? Not having a rigorous navigation method but relying on track crawling and map reading (not acceptable), poorly executed practice forced landings without power and poor stall recovery with minimum loss of height are the usual ones. . .. .Don't forget that we KNOW you'll be tense and we KNOW that you'll probably make the odd mistake. But if you can demonstrate that you can complete the required exercises SAFELY, you'll be fine!. .. .Very best of luck!!. . . . <small>[ 22 March 2002, 19:26: Message edited by: BEagle ]</small>

[FlyingForFun]

BEagle,. .. .Thanks for pointing out the possibility of engine overspeed. Just to clarify - power wasn't used in recovering from a spiral descent. This was used during a controlled, sustained, descending steep turn. Obviously if the manoevre turned into a spiral descent, the correct action would be to cut the power and level the wings to recover.. .. .Also, I'm not necessarily suggesting that this is the way other people should do their steep descending turns. It's not the way I was taught it, and to tell the truth I can't see any reason for doing it this way, except that it made my particular examiner happy!. .. .As for the common weak points, that's pretty interesting. I'd guess that both of the points you mentioned have more to do with training than with the candidates actual ability - particularly so with the navigation method. Surely if you've been taught to draw a line on the chart, calculate heading from track, and calculate estimated time en route, then there's no reason at all to not do this on the day of your test. And once you've done all the hard work (before getting into the aeroplane), it's actually easier to just fly the heading than it is to try to follow the chart as you go.. .. .So it sounds like it's fair to say that, if you've been taught properly, you really have absolutely nothing to worry about, which is good news for everyone!. .. .FFF. .---------

[WGW]

Flying for Fun - When you say 'Level the Wings', I hope you mean with rudder.... .. .Nice summary of your skills test - similar to mine, though I returned to base between the two halves.. .. .I was tought the wing-down method in the US for x-wind landings. My instructor requested a diffent runway pretty much every flight (much to my chagrin) and made me fly the whole of the approach each time cross-controlled, ie left rudder, right aeleron to keep the aircraft pointing straight and on the centre line all the way down.. .. .In the UK, I was given to understand that slipping is not recommended with flap deployed, and not near the ground as a stall is slightly more likely if you screw up your airspeed. Now I fly a compromise - crab down to the threshold, then straighten the nose with rudder with a few feet to go and use aeleron to correct drift to give a nice (sometimes?) three point landing.. .. .G_String - Just relax and fly it like you know how. Your instructor won't put you forward for a skills test unless he knows you can pass. And hey, if you fail it, just do it again. You still log the hours, so it's no big deal. Relax though, and you'll be fine. Would recommend you have a scan through your Book 1 the night before to check up on PFLs etc.. .. .I anything, taking up your first passenger is more daunting. Instructors don't scream as you come over the threshold..... .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . .. .WGW

[eyeinthesky]

WGW: Why with rudder? If you are close to VNE (as you may be in a spiral dive), then I suggest you are far more likely to overstress the airframe with a bootful of rudder than you are with judicious use of ailerons. Are you sure you're not confusing spiral dive with spin recovery?. .. .Back to the original question: Have confidence in your ability to do the things you have been trained to do. You would not be put up for the skills test if they did not think you were ready for it. It SHOULD just be a rubber-stamping exercise rather than an exam. If you are relying on squeaking through on a good day then you are not ready for it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

[BEagle]

Hmmm - the way you were taught in the US, eh....?? . .. .It is acceptable to assess jointly both low speed flight and 'steep descending turns' during an off-aerodrome PFL. That's what I do!!

[G_STRING]

Thanks for the replies, escpecially to Flying for fun, for such a detailed break-down.. .. .Perhaps I could ask if anybody could clarify the one part of the test that I'm dreading more than the other bits - the part where they deliberately get you lost, then ask you to establish where you are.. .. .I've been told you only have one crack at this, if you give the wrong answer, you fail the test. also been told that it's usually carried out after the 180 degree instrument turn.. .. .Anyway, thanks again

[BEagle]

There is NO SUCH REQUIREMENT in the PPL Skill Test!! You are responsible for the navigation during the nav section; although you have to carry out a practice diversion during this section, a reasonable examiner will give you a scenario. E.g. "The ground a couple of miles beyond that motorway is obscured by cloud and you can see bad weather ahead. When you are ready, I want you to take me to....(at which point I hand over a page from Pooley's), which is on this area of your map". You then wrestle with sticky pen and map to give me an estimated track and ETA once we set off..... After we've done that, I look after the navigation during the GH phase. It's convenient to get you to fix our position by use of radio navaids either during this diversion or after the 180 deg IF turn, followed by 5 min tracking to or from a beacon, but that shouldn't be anything to concern yourself about! . .. .On the old NFT, you would have been taken off track during the 'operation at minimum level' section, then instructed to climb back up to cruise level, sort out your position and navigate to the next turning point either directly or by returning to the pre-planned track. If any FE is still getting PPL applicants to do that, they shouldn't be!!. . . . <small>[ 24 March 2002, 21:02: Message edited by: BEagle ]</small>

[G_STRING]

BEagle - Thanks for that, (after looking at your profile, you obviously are in a position to know). I didn't know that was the case, after being told by my instructor/school otherwise, and must confess that I'm confused now, after being TOLD to expect to be 'got lost' (I'm not confusing this with the diversion - it is definately a different part).. .. .If I AM made to carry this out, and consequently fail it, what recourse do I have, (giving what BEagle has said), or is there none at all.. .. .It would be annoying to fail, (or indeed to have to do), something which should not be a part of the skills test.. .. .Can anybody else comment?? . .. .thanks

[FlyingForFun]

G_String,. .. .I'd suggest that you make sure you're happy with getting yourself un-lost. Whether it's required on the test or not (and BEagle certainly is in a position to be able to tell us), it's definitely a useful skill to know! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> And it's not really that hard if you've got nav-aids.. .. .I've been "lost" a couple of times in aircraft with no nav-aids (and once in an aircraft with a GPS which I didn't know how to use - that was frustrating!), and even without having any gadgets to help you out, it's not difficult. If you've got a VOR/DME to help you out, it's a piece of cake.. .. .FFF. .---------

[paulo]

I never really got up to speed with radio nav before my test. Not really a problem, the old school method sufficed, BUT - if I did it again, I would have learned my Radio Nav properly - it's such a reassurance.. .. .MS Flight sim is a nice fun way of learning your VORs, and how to think them through in flight, without all the pressure of a real plane to fly. (For something more 'official', there's also RANT).

[BEagle]

Which is why my ac all have VORx2, DME, ADF, ILSx2, GS Rx, Mode C, panel mounted GPS...... .. .I've double checked the FE's Handbook and there is NO requirement for the Examiner to 'get you lost'! You look after the nav during the navex and diversion, the FE then looks after it until telling you exactly where you are after the GH section prior to your recovery to the aerodrome.. .. .If you are unsuccessful and feel that the test was conducted incorrectly, you should advise the FE that you will be contacting the Chief Flight Examiner. . .. .It could well be that this uncertainty results from your FIs not being up to date with the Skill Test Requirements, of course!

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Passed mine today, about 2 1/2 hours ago to be precise!! So here goes,. .. .Went to the club planning on doing some circuits to complete my minimum hours. Did the ccts, walked back in and the CFI asked whether I was up for the test there and then. Anyway, planned a route, checked weathers, NOTAMs, C of G etc and off I went with the examiner. First part was routine nav although the weather was not ideal (6-8kms vis). Found my first turning point (after a MATZ xing) with relative ease. Second leg was OK 'til diversion. At the point of diversion I knew exactly where I was so I entered an orbit until I had my life sorted out; the examiner seemed to like this. Got on track but had a complete brain dump when trying the estimate the time taken to fly 26nm at 86kts ground speed. Luckily I flew the aeroplane first and finally came up with the right answer (in debrief the examiner asked if I had planned to fly half the leg and then double the time taken!!).. .. .We eventually moved onto GH with climbs/descents/stalls etc; this seemed to be quite easy (lots of practice?) Pulled a PFL from nearly 4000ft which didn't help as I had so much time to plan the pattern I became indecisive. Anyway, I eventually went for the 3rd field (number 1 was waterlogged and number 2 had a few wires across it). However, it all seemed to work, including the simulated engine failure after go around. . .. .We the RNAVed back to Denham before doing some ccts. All went fine until I had to go into a low level cct with short field landing after a flapless roll. Consequently, I found myself dropping some flap on climbout (don't know whether this is correct but it worked). I rushed the cct (too tight?) and therefore ended up rather fast on final approach. Nevertheless, I landed on the numbers and stopped in a relatively short distance despite the highish appraoch speed.. .. .Finally, a few type specific questions and that was it.. . . .Over the moon, absolutely knackered, going to the pub!. . . . <small>[ 25 March 2002, 20:37: Message edited by: Whipping Boy's SATCO ]</small>

[BEagle]

Congratulations! That sounds exactly like the way I'd conduct a PPL Skills Test as well!

[phantomwray]

My flight test was broken up into two parts. We first started off with the pile of questions the examiner had for me during the ground portion. That went better than I expected. Then once we got in the plane everything was going fine until we did the rolling instrument check and found that the turn coordinator was u/s. Nice of the previous pilot to note it in the log! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> . .. .Of course, there were no other planes available at the time so we had to postpone the test. I then had an unbelievable number of weather cancellations after that.. .. .Finally, after about 6 or 7 cancelled flights, I got to go. Things were going great this time until we were holding short of the runway waiting to takeoff. It was then that I noticed that I'd forgot my nav-log back in the school. I then had to shamefully request taxi clearance back. Up until this point, I wasn't nervous at all. But now I was sure that the rest of the test would be an utter disaster with my confidence being shot. Though once I commenced the takeoff roll, I forgot all about the incident and was back in my element. The rest of the flight went very well.. .. .So my advice, just make sure you've got everything you need before you hop in the plane. Double checking never hurts either.