Trial Flights in SE England

[siwalker66]

Who runs the best organised / most enjoyable trial flights, 4 - 6hr intro packages accessable to Londoners?. .Thanks for any advice.

[Who has control?]

Depends on whereabouts in London you are coming from & how far you want to travel.

[siwalker66]

OK, Chelsea/Fulham and up to a couple of hours travelling I suppose. Biggin Hill?. .I'd appreciate any info. Obviously I have looked around on the web but it is hard to decide which to go for without a recommendation.. .Thanks.. . . . <small>[ 18 March 2002, 20:13: Message edited by: chickenhawk66 ]</small>

[Wrong Stuff]

Closest airfields for you would probably be Denham (up the A40) or Elstree (up the M1). You'd be able to get to either in less than an hour. Biggin has lots of choice of schools, but it's quite a slog through the suburbs.. .. .Cabair have got schools at Denham, Elstree and Biggin. Many consider them a bit pricey to learn at, but for a trial lesson they may be a good choice - smart and reassuring for those nervous first-timers. Another good alternative may be the British Airways Flying Club at Wycombe Air Park - never flown with them myself, but they have a good reputation. Lots of other, less starchy just as good schools around, but many people taking first GA flights are used only to the airline experience and can find the more down-to-earth clubs a little disconcerting initially.. .. .As far as I know, trial lessons everywhere are much shorter than 4-6 hours - more like 15 mins briefing, half an hour's flight then a 15 minute "any questions" session. No doubt you could arrange something longer if that's what's needed.

[FNG]

Two rather different choices:-. .. .(1) West london Aero Club at White Waltham: this is a large flying club/school, just off the M4 by Maidenhead, an hour or less by car from Chelsea. There's a traditional grass airfield, an atmospheric clubhouse, and lots of interesting vintage and aerobatic aircraft sitting or moving around. The school itself is well organised, operates the usual PA-28 Warriors and has lots of them.. .. .(2) Skysport: small enthusiasts' club operating from North Weald and Elstree, not primarily dedicated to PPL training but possessed of (a) classic British trainers: Beagle Pups and a Bulldog, which are much more fun to learn in than a Piper or Cessna, and (b) very good instructors, none of whom are hour builders. [bias confession: I learned with this bunch]. .. .Wycombe, mentioned above, is a well organised and well maintained airfield, with two generally well regarded flying schools. Creates a less ramshackle first impression than many flying clubs.. .. .Cabair are a chain of flying schools with several branches. They are perhaps more focussed on training those with aspirations to professional licences rather than on enthusiastic recrational flyers. At Denham you can compare and contrast a Cabair branch on one side of the field with a more clubby flying club on the other.. .. .If it's just a trial lesson you're after, especially as a present, Waltham may offer the best overall day out. If you are thinking of getting a PPL, it's better to visit all of the airfields mentioned, and others besides, to form your own views.

[Polar_stereographic]

Personaly,. .. .I'd stay well away from Cabair.. .. .If you want to save some money during training, look slightly further away. Thruxton for example, maybe an hour and a halw away, but you will find the hourly rate a lot lower that Cabair.. .. .Also worth taking a look at, is the London Transport Flying Club at Fairoaks. Because of some agreement or other, they are not allowed to advertise, but they are significantly cheaper than the opposition on the field. . .. .I'd also stay away from the big airfields, Biggin/Redhill/Elstree etc. I would also say that it's a lot more friendly as you move away from London, and the learning process is a lot less stressfull too.. .. .Whatever you end up doing, ENJOY it.. .. .PS

[siwalker66]

The advice so far is much appreciated. i am slowly working on it... looks advisable to have a few trial flights.. .Why is it considered advisable to avoid the bigger airfields? Too stressful? . .I'll get there eventually. I. . . . <small>[ 20 March 2002, 18:08: Message edited by: chickenhawk66 ]</small>

[Monocock]

Go to Thruxton. . .. .They are friendly, professional, good value, well organised, good runway, well maintained fleet and EVERY instructor is good. (ie there is no risk of getting an annoying one!). .. .P.S I dont work there!!!!

[FlyingForFun]

Titch, are you an instructor at Waltham?. .. .I'm not suggesting that you're biased in recommended them (and even if you were it wouldn't be a problem), just wandering if I know you.. .. .I'd also like to add my voice to the White Waltham contingent - a load of friendly instructors, lots of planes - and a great club atmosphere to relax in after flying (or when the weather's too bad to fly), which is missing from many other airfields.. .. .FFF. .---------

[FNG]

I very much agree with the comments made by titch. I wouldn't suggest taking several trial lessons, but I would strongly recommend visiting as many airfields as possible. You might be surprised (I know that I was) at how shambolic many GA organisations appear to be. As an aspirant PPL, you are effectively walking in to a business clutching a bag containing several thousand pounds which you plan to give to that business. It's surprising how many of them greet you with a "yeah, whatever" attitude.. .. .I am not suggesting that smooth and smarmy customer service is a necessary indicator of quality or the thing to go for. It's really a question of how enthusiastic, how passionate even, the training organisation appears to be to an enquiring outsider.. .. .It is difficult on a short visit to judge the quality of the instruction, or the maintenance standards of the aircraft, but a little time spent hanging around the school may give some clues as to both. In terms of organisation, are the lesson slots too short and too numerous, so that lessons overrun and instructors have no time for proper briefings and (importantly) debriefings? Does the school seem more interested in the low-effort business of trial lessons/disguised joy rides than in its committed students? Look around the club house: do you see instructors chatting about flying with their students, or are they rushing to the next lesson, or sitting together telling disparaging tales about student X or student Y? Are there quiet corners or rooms for briefing, study and planning?. .. .As for large/small airfields, the larger ones give you experience of full ATC operations and allow rapid development of R/T skills, but you spend more time taxiing and holding, and, at the early stages, have the additional pressures of fitting in with traffic and controller requirements whilst struggling to manage the aircraft. Elstree, by the way, is physically tiny, but is busy and crowded.. .. .Enjoy your course, wherever you do it.

[djk]

I live down in South London. .I did look at airfields such as Elstree and Biggin Hill etc etc and I found Rochester (which is just an hour away by train) to be a nice friendly airfield. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

[DOC.400]

I'd give a totally biased 'YES' for White waltham as I've been based there for seven years!!. .. .Don't knock Cabair -I had two good PPL years with them at Denham and they got my through to where I am. It was/is a machine, but I found their instructors totally professional with a fun element. Socially (Denham) was not so good.. .. .However, I find those that knock Cabair tend to be instructors or CPL students who have been ripped off in the past.. .. .DOC

[Polar_stereographic]

Thruxton get's my vote. Sent lots of people there, all more than happy.. .. .My personal view on small/large airfields is that I'd go for a smaller one all the time. Less distractions, ATC friendlier and more accomodating. Sure the big ones break you into it quicker, but when you are learning to fly do you need that extra level when you've got your hands busy with the basics. The more advanced stuff can be learnt later, and that goes for busier airfields too with more complicated RT, once the basics have been mastered.. .. .Learning is all about building confidence up, and that's easier in my view at the smaller places. . .. .They are usualy nicer airfield too, but don't quote me on that in all cases.. .. .PS

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

The Pilot Centre at Denham is definitely worth a visit. A relatively small, friendly organisation with 152s, 172s and Cherokees.. .. .Tel: 01895 833838. .. .PS. I'm a student there and do not get commission for touting!

[sennadog]

Try contacting Cubair at Redhill. There's no problem with it being a "large" airfield as far as I can tell - I didn't even realise that it was considered to be large... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> . .. . <a href="http://www.cubair.com" target="_blank">Cubair</a>

[Polar_stereographic]

Redhill I included for other reasons.. .. .Not that busy, but that might be part of the reason I included it (particularily unfriendly - not good for early pilots).. .. .PS

[siwalker66]

I do appreciate all the advice so far. Thruxton and White Waltham look promising. Little Gransden's website and the packages on offer there look good. . .I have abandoned the 4-hour package notion; I suppose I thought there was a middle way between a 1 hour trial and full committment to a PPL. I will visit some of the suggested places over the next month or so and decide then. . .By the way I'm getting a bit worried about the weather: is it common for a PPL to only be able to fly 1 in 4 or 5 of his booked lessons? (as suggested by other threads).

[sennadog]

I think that it's just this time of year and my shear bad luck as to when I have been able to get up and fly! . .. .Put it this way - if the TAF says that tomorrow morning is going to be perfect and I've booked a lesson, then you can guarantee that it pisses down with rain....... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> In fact, with my luck, maybe I should publish the times that I've booked lessons over the next month or so and if you are in the south of England you'll all know when not to fly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .I'm told that it's fantastic in the Summer though....

[Jetscream 32]

Chickenhawk,. .. .Suggest you try TG Aviation @ Manston, it only takes an hour twenty from town, it is a very professional outfit that is well worth a visit.. .. .Investment in aircraft and facilities speaks volumes for any organisation and they have put there money where there mouth is.. .. .If the MOD and NATS send students there, it is good enough for anyone.. .. .Hope it helps, Happy Landings

[Who has control?]

Chickenhawk, . .. .I suspect that the cancellation rate of 1 in 4 or 5 depends a lot on the runway. If you are operating from a hard surface, you will be able to fly even if the weather is poor. If you are flying off of grass and if you've just experienced most of the Atlantic Ocean doing touch & goes on your runway, then you are in for a serious tea-drinking session! . .. .1 in 4 does sound high to me, but we have had two very wet winters in succession so those figures may be the current trend. The weather was a lot kinder to me when I did my PPL, I can only remember 4-5 cancellations in 18 months.. .. .Once you have a basic PPL, you can confidently predict that a mimimum of 50% of all your bookings will be cancelled due to inclement weather.

[FNG]

Don't let the weather get you down: moaning about the weather is part of pilot tradition, and new JAR regs require all PPLs to whinge about the weather at least three times a week in order to remain current and legal.. .. .There are still plenty of good flying days. Depending on how often you can take time off to fly, you can look forward to completing the PPL course, in UK weather, in something between a season and a year. It took me 11 months, which seems fairly average. Threads about flying hours show that it is perfectly possible for recreational pilots to log 50 to 150 hours a year if they are keen and have ready access to flying machines (and avoid the wicked perversions known as "playing golf", also talking to their families, doing the shopping, etc etc). . .. .As for getting committed, the only commitment comes from the enthusiasm you will (very probably) feel once you have taken a few lessons. If you don't like it, you can bin it whenever you like (assuming that you don't pay up front on a non-refundable basis, which wouldn't be a great idea in any event).. . . . <small>[ 22 March 2002, 09:45: Message edited by: FNG ]</small>

[FlyingForFun]

Chickenhawk,. .. .If you're looking for something between a trial lesson and full commitment, take a closer look at White Waltham. They generally start you off with a trial lesson, then they offer you a two-hour package at a highly discounted rate. (Or at least that's the way they did it 2 years ago when I started my PPL - I'm not aware of it having changed.) After 3 hours, you should have enough information to decide if this is what you really want to do.. .. .As for weather, someone mentioned that grass fields get waterlogged, and this is true of many fields. It doesn't seem to be the case at Waltham, though. I don't know the exact details, but apparently there was a drainage system fitted during the 2nd World War to ensure that the field could be used during wet weather. FNG might know more, he's a source of all kinds of uselss aviation information and a Waltham regular!. .. .However, you will find that you won't be able to fly in rain (unless it's extremely light), fog, mist or low clouds (until you get a little further along in your training, when you will be able to fly circuits under reasonably low cloud but won't be able to go away from the the airfield.) Obviously these conditions are far more common during winter than summer. And it will always rain non-stop when you book a week off work to go flying. Or when you're expecting to have a trial lesson, or go solo, or take your first passenger up, or take up that really fit bird from finance, or any other important flight!. .. .FFF. .--------

[FNG]

Hmmmm, you may have got me there FFF....Not sure about the drainage details, but agree that the field stays usable despite wet weather. Grass is good: if God had intended light aircraft to use hard runways, he would have given us better glue for the instructor's dentures.. .. .To draw attention away from my anorak malfunction on the drainage system, I'll venture to suggest that Waltham probably did have a FIDO system during the war. Being so near the meandering part of the Thames, there are occasions (eg most sunny mornings) when it could do with still having a FIDO. Have you guessed what it is yet?

[pulse1]

Paid my first ever visit to WW last Sunday and it took three of us a good half hour to clean the mud off. Another highlight was having some maniac in a Warrior cutting in front when I was on a half mile final - great place!

[siwalker66]

I appreciate all the advice very much. I will let you know in due course how it goes - within a couple of months I hope to have made a choice and a start towards my ppl.

[Chickenhawk66]

Well, after some consideration, it will be either Denham or (probably) White Waltham.

Just to make things more difficult I am planning to cycle from Fulham/Chelsea to my chosen field... White Waltham is doable (Thames path) as is Denham (Grand Union Canal towpath!!).

Must admit I havent seen too many happy faces at White Waltham yet... maybe they are waiting for me to flash the plastic or maybe the ride from London made me look a bit scary...:D.

By the way the Chickenhawk name seems to have gone AWOL in the above pre-changeover post.