flying IFR with VFR licence

[JP5A]

Question

1)If a PPL has an IMC rating and wants to file a flight plan in the UK can he legally put "I" to file IFR or does he/she need an instrument rating??
Obviously they need to keep off airways and would have to decline an IFR join if ATC asked them if they were equipped to do this.

2)Is an advisory route classed as an airway??

I should know the answers to these questions but they have slipped into the nether regions of my brain.
:confused:

Thanks

[2Donkeys]

Even a PPL with no IMC rating may file an "I" Flightplan in UK airspace.

"I" does not refer to the met. conditions you will be flying in, only to the flight rules that you will be sticking too. So long as you don't attempt to file IFR in airspace that you ought not to be in, no problem. Similarly, so long as you don't fly in met. conditions that you shouldn't be in, no problem either.

Advisory routes are not regarded as airways are are open to IMC-rating holders. You must file a flight plan to use them though.

[JP5A]

2D

Thanks for that info.

[Aussie Andy]

OK, so now I'm going to expose MY ignorance... What are the IFR rules!?

Even though I have passed all the exams and recantly gain the license (PPL(A)), I must admit to being REALLY confused about this point.

I know the VFR rules, for sure. And I kow what SVFR means, I think! But I am at a loss to know what I would do differently if flying under IFR. Is it only me who's confused?

I expect it basically means "do what ATC tell me to do" - but that seems to be what happens already, so that can't be right...

And then I thought it probably means being able to handle ATC requirements in controlled airspace such as Holds etc., but that can't be right either as we aren't taught these until IMC or IR stage.

So, someone please put me out of my misery!

Andy

[Final 3 Greens]

JP5A

The classic example is a PPL with no IMC and a night rating - it is visual flight under IFR.

By law night flights must be under IFR (to be honest I can't remember whether special VFR applies in class A at nights - have never been brave enough to contemplate such a journey to make this knowledge relevant!)

[FNG]

Andy, have a look at number 17 of Irv Lee's FAQ page at http://www.higherplane.flyer.co.uk/faq.htm

He explains it all with great clarity. IFR and IMC are not the same thing.

As they used to say at the beginning of "Soap" : Confused? You will be...,

but hopefully not after reading Mr Lee's stuff

[Warped Factor]

F3G,

SVFR is available in Class A and D Zones at night.

WF.

[Aussie Andy]

FNG - thanks... just looked at Irv Lee's page - crystal clear! For the first time, I think I get it!

I think I will buy his "Pre Pre-Flight Checks" book, which a freiend has also recommended - gotta be worth a tenner!

Andy

[Odi]

Rule 28: The Instrument Flight Rules

Inside CAS the Instrument Flight Rules are:
Rule 29 Minimum height
Rule 31 Flight plan and ATC clearance
Rule 32 Position reports

Outside CAS the Instrument Flight Rules are:
Rule 29 Minimum height
Rule 30 Quadrantal and semi-circular rule

Just thought I'd let you know.

[dakersg]

Whilst on the topic, I have a couple of scenarios I am unsure about and any advice would be very welcome:

Supposing you are a PPL with IMC, and flying a route to a destination in class D airspace with full ATC.

1) You start off flying VFR to the destination with no flight plan filed. Normally you might phone before leaving, call up on the radio in advance, obtain clearance before entering controlled airspace and do a visual circuit - no problem.

However, supposing that along the route, the weather closes in and you need to fly IFR and wish to do an instrument approach using ILS or similar. How would you go about requesting this, or indeed will it necessaryil even e allowed in these circumstances. Would it have been better to file a flight plan before leaving. (OK, best to check the weather first, but it might happen!)

2) This time you know in advance that you are going to fly IFR and do an instrument approach. Should you always file a flight plan before leaving? Is this a requirement, just more efficient, or not really worthwhile - it could just be done whilst in the air? If a flight plan was filed, should you wait for confirmation that clearance will be given, or can this be obtained just by ringing up the ATC before leaving, or can you just assume it will be given? Is there likely to be any problem with doing an instrument approach, other than possibly just being in a hold for a while?

Lots of questions I know, but its all a bit unclear in my head at the moment! :confused:

[bookworm]

carb-ice

1) When first making contact with your destination, amend your initial call of "G-ABCD VFR inbound" to "ABCD IFR inbound". When asked, pass your details as you would otherwise have done. Ensure that your clearance to enter the class D is IFR.

2) Filing a FPL before getting airborne is not a requirement. For instructions on how to file a flight plan (abbreviated) while airborne, see 1 above. :)

I've never noticed any difference whatsoever between this and filing over the AFTN before departure. Sometimes I do the latter anyway, on the basis that just this once I might save myself a few words on the radio.

Do make sure that either you call up early, or that the previous controller co-ordinates your arrival with your destination on the landline. Most controllers are more than happy to fit you in ad hoc, provided they get a bit of warning.

Finally, if you want to practise approaches at your destination (as opposed to just using the approach to arrive in IMC), you would be well advised to talk to ATC on the phone beforehand, and book as required.

[ 03 August 2001: Message edited by: bookworm ]

[dakersg]

Thanks for the hints bookworm. Just what I wanted to know. Hope to start putting this all into practice soon! :)