Ac for short field takeoff / ldg

[sarboy w****r]

Hi All,

I'm hoping you can help - what sort of aircraft commonly used in the UK would be able to easily get into and out of a grass strip, about 1600 - 1700 ft (~500m) long?

Thanks,

SBW

[Unusual Attitude]

Quite a few, I've regularily flown a C172 out of that sort of length.....

[FlyingStone]

As said, C172 should do fine provided you have satisfactory obstacle clearance in runway heading in direction of takeoff and you have some experience with the aircraft. But if you want to be really comfortable, I'd go with something in the tailwheel category...

[Genghis the Engineer]

Offhand,

Just about any microlight although I'd probably steer clear of the Chevvron or Jabiru for short grass strips.

C150, C152, F172, CH701, Escapade (group A or microlight versions are basically the same), Streak Shadow, Piper Cub (any version), Aeronca (just about anything).

Basically look for something with a stall speed under 50kn and power/weight in the order of 0.12 hp/kg or better (this is just from a back of envelope sum, and doesn't have any rigorous justification).

Aeroplanes I'd personally avoid for regular use from a short grass strip - most PA28s, underpowered heavy vintage aeroplanes (they'll land in it okay but can struggle to get out again), PA38, anything resembling a motorglider. Basically aeroplanes with small engines and/or small wheels.

High wings are probably slightly better for short field landings - they tend to float a bit less in ground effect.

G

[airborne_artist]

And mow the strip regularly - it makes a measurable difference.

[Intercepted]

Aeroplanes I'd personally avoid for regular use from a short grass strip - most PA28s

I agree, but most PA28 are well off the ground by 500 meter. The main issue is obstacle clearence and this makes some 600 meter airfields worse than a 500 meter one.

[Pilot DAR]

I disagree with Genghis on one choice in his list, and that is the C-152. They can have quite different short field performance than the 150, or others on the list. A "Sparrowhawk" modified 152 would be a very good choice though.

If choosing a 172 or 182, look for one post 1974 in model year, they had a different airfoil from the factory, which very much improved short field performance. This change did not occur on the 150/152.

Note that the 150 and 172 have a range of approved prop pitches. Assure that the aircraft you choose has a prop pitched to its fine limit "climb prop". This can be done at prop overhaul, and will make a big difference compared to a "cruise prop".

A Short Take Off & Landing (STOL) kit is an excellent investment on any of the common 100 series Cessnas, and will dramtically improve and reassure operations in short runways. Be prepared to work on your piloting skills though, the techniques are different from those commonly taught.

[Justiciar]

commonly used in the UK

Strange way of phrasing the question. Are you asking what is available to buy in the UK which would meet your criteria, or what there is to rent? Two different questions with two different answers. If you are buying how much do you want to pay? Many of the modern plastic fantastics will give good cruise but also short field. So will older designs such as have already been mentioned. The Chipmunk is an example and I believe the Jodels are also quite good; the Cub has already been mentioned. 500 metres will be marginal for some aircraft with tired engines or too much fuel or too big a passenger aboard but ok one up, light fuel and/or good engine.

You really need to say what sort of flying you want to do. If you aim to fly from a strip with the wife and kids regualarly then your options will be somewhat more limited.

[sarboy w****r]

Thanks for the ideas - I'm working on a project that involves a small airstrip with a runway of that length, and I am curious as to what sort of aircraft could be safely taken into a field that size (obstacle clearance is not a problem on approach/departure).

Generally the aircraft will be flown with no more than 2 pax, but do any aircraft spring to mind as being suitable if more pax were to be carried?

Thanks,

SBW

[hatzflyer]

A wilga would do it:ok:

[Fuji Abound]

Maybe you should be a little more specific.

How many seats?

Tailwheel or nosewheel?

Load carrying?

Certified or not?

Metal or fabric?

There are plenty that will do the job, but maybe a much shorter list of those that will meet your specific questions.

For me mention short field (and I mean even really short, long wet grass, whatever you like) and it has to be a Husky. Great aircraft. Not much good if there are three of you or you want metal.

[D'pirate]

C180/185 with STOL kit, and my all time favourite the DO-27!

[WorkingHard]

Cessna FR172K

[Katamarino]

Cessna FR172K

We had one at our club for a while; it got in and out of Henham Park with 4 average size people, and nearly full fuel!

[cats_five]

A wilga would do it:ok:

Saw one of those last week, it looks like some sort of dinosaur! Also, it's quite a climb into it.

[ShyTorque]

I'm hoping you can help - what sort of aircraft commonly used in the UK would be able to easily get into and out of a grass strip, about 1600 - 1700 ft (~500m) long?

A helicopter.......!

[Justiciar]

Generally the aircraft will be flown with no more than 2 pax, but do any aircraft spring to mind as being suitable if more pax were to be carried?

I've not flown one but the Robin DR 400 seems to get peoples vote as one of the best load lifters which does not hog runway; otherwise a C182.

[Echo Romeo]

Get an Auster, classic tail dragger it will get in and out with ease,fly on a permit cheap to buy and fairly so to run.

[Billredshoes]

Try this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puTDNrcLLaw)


TenBars

[Cows getting bigger]

Cub
Husky
Citabria
Wilga (someone has already mentioned this interesting beast)
172SP/182
The vast majority of VLA/LSA

Avoid

PA28s (most of them)
TB9/10/20/21
AA5 (you might get away with a Tiger)
Jabiru

[AfricanEagle]

You could consider a Maule.

[goldeneaglepilot]

I flew a C182T for a while with a Horton STOL kit, will take off with two on board in 700 ft from (short) Grass and clear a fifty foot obstruction after a 1000', great low speed handling and even shorter landing.

Only downside is if you are less than 6', the dash is high and difficult to see over on takeoff, but you compensate for that with technique.

With 4 average adults and full tanks it will go up after about 1000' takeoff with 1500' to fifty feet.

All of this is dependant on the pilot using the correct short / soft field takeoff technique. Treat the takeoff on grass in the same way as on tarmac then you might just go through the hedge...

If you want extereme performance get a Pitts!! You have not said what type of flying you want to do, so the question is almost demanding a "how long is the piece of string" type answer.

[Tinstaafl]

A BN2 Islander. No worries at all and with a good load at the same time. Pity the rest of one's flight has to be in it though...

[Rod1]

There are 100's of aircraft which will operate out of 500m. If you want this to actually help give us an idea of what you are going to do with the aircraft and your budget. For example;

Fun aerobatics with limited touring single seat with low operating cost;

Silence Twister

Touring, two up with low operating costs;

Almost any VLA type (probably 30 odd aircraft)

Touring, four up, operating cost no problem;

C182

Touring off rough strip, 4 up, operating cost no problem;

Maule

Rod1

[Piper.Classique]

I've not flown one but the Robin DR 400 seems to get peoples vote as one of the best load lifters which does not hog runway; otherwise a C182.
I have, and tugged with. Depends on the engine and prop. A 180 hp will usually be fine, even with the cruise prop. A 118 hp will be a bit marginal unless you have the fine pitch prop. We have 740 m at our base airfield, good clear approaches, and we insure the little DR 400 for three seats only. Dare I mention the performance pages of the flight manual?

[Pudnucker]

I fly my 180HP archer out of farm strips all the time - I'm often off in a lot less length than other so called short strip machines.

[2high2fastagain]

Cessna 182 - you'll get a pilot and 3 pax in and out without much trouble.

[jxk]

A true man's aircraft is a Cessna 180. But you'll be lucky to find a good one in the UK.

[SNS3Guppy]

I have no idea how many there are in the UK, but it's hard to go wrong with a Super Cub or a Husky.

[Dan Winterland]

Rallye. Preferably >150HP.

[toolowtoofast]

N-model 172 with 180hp with a fine prop is your best bang for buck.

182 with O520 or O540 power. (not the O470) expensive compared to 172

Super Cub. Only a 2 seater. Take off and land in less than 50m though. MUST be hangared.

Piper Pacer.

C180 - not too bad but a 182 performs better overall I reckon

Yak 18T?

[hatzflyer]

As per all the previous posts, there are hundreds that will do it, and that's just counting regular types without getting into exotic types.
The question is too general.
If you are seeking proper advice ,you need to be much more specific.

[KeesM]

Morane Saulnier Rallye

[tmmorris]

I've not flown one but the Robin DR 400 seems to get peoples vote as one of the best load lifters which does not hog runway

but avoid the -115 ('Dauphin') variant - underpowered despite the nice wing and handling characteristics. You need the -180 Regent (or the President, even).

Tim

(edited to add - I took the Dauphin into Fenland a couple of weeks ago. The landing was a piece of cake -much shorter than the book figure suggested - the takeoff (one adult, one child, 50% fuel) wasn't. Might have been something to do with the mowing...)

[doubleu-anker]

Pilatus Porter! :}

[hatzflyer]

Anything will go in AND out as long as you don't mind it going out on a trailor.:E

[Rod1]

Antonov An-2

Rod1

[hatzflyer]

Keep up rod, that ones been done, this is just silly!

[Fake Sealion]

An autogyro :O

[golfbananajam]

can't beat a helicopter, except for cost

[Pilot DAR]

I see that many posters have provided the identity of an aircraft. There are, however, not as many posts with detailed information as to why the identified aircraft is particularly suitable. Yes, the original question would benefit from more detail and clarity, but does that open the thread up to a "name a plane" exercise?

Nearly all of the aircraft identified have admirable short field characteristics, though some more than others. That having been said, the operational considerations, and operating technique are going to have as much to do with SAFE short field operation, as the aircraft type.

My home runway was 1700 feet long, with good approaches, for the first 18 years of it's use (later lengthened to 2100 feet when I began operating a standard C 207 here). During that early time, I operated aircraft ranging from my STOL C150, C182RG, through to Aztec and Twin Otter with never a problem. However, some of those flights used up every inch of the runway (C182RG), and did not include a suitable margin of safety for the unexpected. Wind and density altitude have quite an affect on the runway length required for operation with a suitable reserve.

I used to occasionally operate a STOL C182 in and out of a runway 750 feet long, with 60 foot trees at each threshold. I brushed trees a few times, but never had a problem. That did not make it suitably safe, or a good idea. The fact that extreme runway operations are possible on certain days, does not mean that planning regular operations in those conditions is wise.

Setting up an operating environment which just fits within the aircraft capabilities requires unusual pilot skill and currency to be safe. The original poster would be wise to consider an aircraft which offers lots of margin (double, anyway) for the runway dimensions proposed for the common operating conditions. An aircraft which will "just do it" would be a poor choice.

[hatzflyer]

C130 with rocket assist take off.
Free barbie is added benefit.

Can't work the link but look for " operation creditable sport " on you tube

[Pudnucker]

Quick follow up for you. Regardless of the a/c type you eventually go for, I would highly recommend grabbing an hour with an experienced farm strip flyer. A good (well known in aviation circles) friend of mine took me to some farm strips in the archer. He pointed out all the things to look for and reduced my t/o landing distances CONSIDERABLY. Then once you've got such instruction go out and practice regularly - wind/pressure/loading/surface conditions seriously change the considerations you need to make.

[SkyHawk-N]

It's probably easier to list GA aircraft types that CAN'T operate out of a 500m strip.

[Flyingmac]

Perhaps one of these would fit the bill. Not commonly in use yet but worth considering. F-35B - Taking STOVL to a New Level - Videos - AircraftOwner Online (http://www.aircraftowner.com/videos/view/f-35b---taking-stovl-to-a-new-level_1126).

[A and C]

Another vote for the DR400 as long as you don't include the one with the small engine.

I had a DR400-140 that was based on a 470yd strip but I would limit the payload to three people and 60 lts of fuel.

The DR400-180 using the same strip would lift four people and 120 lts of fuel with the same ground run as the 140 but better climb performance.

I suspect that both aircraft would be able to get off the strip at MTOW on an ISA day but I did not feel that I would have enough margin for the unexpected.