Engines are for pansies......

[Pielander]

.....So I've decided to give them up for the time being. :)

Does anybody know of any good gliding schools that do a residential conversion course from PPL to *whatever glider type people do*? How much does this cost, & how long does it take?

I would also be interested to hear of any clubs in the W. Yorkshire area other than the one in York, which I was not impressed with.

Personal opinions of the whole gliding lark in general would also be welcome.

Pie :)

[kabz]

Here's my personal opinion of gliding :

You strap in tight, run the checklist and are aerotowed third of a mile 120 foot behind a pawnee or citabria, 10 feet off the deck, until the towing plane can make it off the ground. In a headwind, the glider can be flying a **long** time before the tow plane makes it off the ground. At this point, the glider has to be flown really precisely just above the ground.

Once this is over, it's just a few minutes until you can release at 2000' or 3000' and glide silently and smoothly through the air looking for thermals that will allow you to circle and gain height. A glider is flown at several different speeds depending on circumstance and where you want to go.

If you have enough height and have chutes and an instructor, you may get some aerobatics in. Loops, wingovers, spins etc. Gliders are usually built strong and often certified for aerobatics.

Once enough altitude has been lost, back to the pattern and try to hit the right height number abeam the landing zone, and then fly on feel right back to the ground. Not many things beat the feeling of flying a really nice pattern in a glider.

I had 20 hours in 172s when I started gliding and now really prefer the gliding, though it is more of a sport than actually useful for going places.

Gliding helped my stick and rudder skills and my flying judgement generally, especially in judging an approach, and using slips, using the rudder correctly, flying steep turns etc etc.

[chrisN]

Pielander, there are gliding clubs at Sutton Bank (Yorkshire GC), Pocklington (Wolds GC) as well as Rufforth (York GC, I think the one you had looked at).

Approximate locations are shown on the BGA website http://www.gliding.co.uk/ then click on Club Directory, and then UK Club map; or just click on the names of clubs in Club Directory to link to their own sites.

UK Glider pilots do not have licences, generally (though one has been invented in an attempt to get easier recognition in other countries). There is a progression in training, which would be much abbreviated for a current PPL, through basic handling, gliding airmanship (some is different or specialised compared with power flying), coping with emergencies such as launch failure and too low in circuit, hence to solo, then escalating levels of attainment. The latter go via Bronze (soaring ability - two sustained flights + flight test and exams on weather, air law etc.), cross country endorsement - field selection etc.; Silver - a 5-hour soaring flight, a 50km cross country with limited height start,and a 1000m height gain; Gold - a 300km cross country flight, and 3000m gain of height; Diamond - a 500 km cross country, a 300km closed circuit flight which ends in a return to the start, and a 5000m height gain. After that, diplomas for 750km, 1000km, etc.

There are competitions for those who want them, usually based on speed round a closed-circuit task each (flyable) day for a week or more.

A few glider pilots do aerobatics at competition level, rather more do some mild ones for their own pleasure. Most soaring gliders are limited to simple manoeuvres - loops, spins, chandelles; no flicks or inverted flight except in specialist gliders.

Hope this helps. Chris N.

[SKYYACHT]

Pielander,

I did a very good, fun course at Norfolk Gliding Club, based at Tibbenham, midway between Diss and Norwich, Very friendly, good grub, reasonable accomodation, with a fleet of aerotugs (Rollason Condors when I was there). The field was home to a US bomber group during the last pan-european disagreement. I recommend it!

Cheers

Tailwinds.

[Saab Dastard]

Pielander,

I have had some marvellous times flying at Derby & Lancs (DLGC) in the peak district (near Buxton, not too far from Sheffield, S. Yorks) www.dlgc.org.uk. (http://www.dlgc.org.uk.) They do residential courses, but not as many as they used to. Not a plug, I'm not a member!

I've also flown out of Rufforth (10 years ago) which had a great bunch of people then, but much poorer facilities.

DLGC is a winch-only site, but you can still get 1200 feet plus. The great thing is it is a ridge site, so with a decent westerly and the ridge working you can cruise up and down to regain height until you find another thermal.

Others have already given a good idea of how gliding differs from powered, so I won't re-iterate.

If you decide to do a residential course there, let me know by posting here - I might see you up there!

Enjoy the hush!

SD


------------------
Hoping and praying should never be confused with planning...

[Mr moto]

Gliding is in my opinion the purist of the air sports. The wings kind of come out of your shoulders and the flying is so 'heads up' that flying becomes instinctive.

It takes about 8-10 minutes to get down from 1500-2000' so when you've been airborne for an hour you know you're doing something special!

Also makes good tailwheel pilot of you.

Only aerobatics can beat it!

[Kermit 180]

It's always good to get back to gliding basics after power flying for so long. You really appreciate the relief of not having that big noisy disc in front of you. I did my first ever solo in a glider. I hope you enjoy yourself with gliding as much as i did. And yes, it does make a good tailwheel pilot out of you. Adverse yaw heaven in fact.

All the best.

Kermie

[chrisN]

Pielander, did you decide to go for one of the suggestions? Please give us some feedback!

Chris N.

[Pielander]

Thanks for all the replies guys. This has all really helped.

I'm definitely decided that I'm going to do it, but still not quite decided where. Depends on course availability and when I can get time off etc. I need to renew my PPL first as well :rolleyes: I'm seriously looking at DLGC.

Saab: You may have sold me on that one. Any thoughts on cheap accommodation in that area?

Recommendations - Keep 'em coming! :)

Cheers

Pie

P.S. Will being a 14.5 st pie-eater affect my glide ratio?

[Yogi-Bear]

PL,
Your ps: Yes, but it will improve your penetration.

[juswonnafly]

NO, you'll just go faster!

:)

[Pielander]

I've just spent a week at DLGC, and I'll spend next week at DLGC as well, given half a chance. Great stuff! - Nuff said!

[Saab Dastard]

Pielander,

Sorry I didn't get back to you before, but I've been away / rebuilding my PC / busy at work (pick 3!). You've evidently found your way around DLGC - and seem to be enjoying it, which is the main thing.

Good luck, may see you there some day. :cool:

[DOC.400]

Hey SD. If we get Pie along, is that course back on for Sep or have u blown brownie points by going to Le Mans? :D
PS I'm apparently still paying off going flying to Sapin in '98 -you have been warned!!! :(

[Saab Dastard]

Doc,

You are right, I'm in brownie point overdraft right now - it'll have to be next year. Pie will be way too advanced by then, we'll have to find some other gliding tyros!

:D

[whats_it_doing_now?]

Interesting post with some good advice. I want to get involved in gliding, I have never done it before, and it does seem a very challenging recreation. IMHO, there are only so many times you can putt-putt from a to b in a c152 before it gets a bit boring.
I haven't done any private flying for a while, and fancy a change from the rather less environmentally friendly RR-RB211!
Any tips for somewhere just West of London?

[Yogi-Bear]

Then why do some gliders and sailplanes have engines, I wonder? Are they for non-pansy pansies? :p

[FNG]

whats it doing now, see the thread on gliding nr London further down the page (well, it was last time I looked). Please tell us where you go and whether it's any good. Booker seems to be the most active and well organised gliding place to the west of London. I've bought my mum a 3 launch intro package there and am waiting for her report.

[yellowperil]

yogi,

you get different sorts; self launchers (gets off the deck itself) and self sustainers (can't get off the deck, but enough to stop it going down too much...!)

They tend to have engines to allow them to get to soarable conditions not exploitable from a winch launch or dubious even from aerotow.

But with the iron thermal in the fuselage behind your head, it's a very noisey experience, with the cockpit acting as a huge soundbox and amplifier, so we don't have 'em on for much longer than necessary!

[Speedbird252]

Pansies?.........

Im sure you Glider pilots have a point, but pansies? ill get more enjoyment from flying something with and engine than you will ever get. Im flying down to Jersey tomorrow for dinner with some friends. What are you doing? Flying around in circles over Lasham?....oooh have fun.

:cool:

[Speedbird252]

...and for the record that last comment was bit of fun....i have a lot of respect for you guys.

Kind regards. :)

[kabz]

Hey, watch any glider pilot come swooping in from base leg, 45 degree turn onto final with spoilers deployed, nose down, descending like a brick, then tell me it's for pansies !!

It's a blast.

[Speedbird252]

tell me about it.....i was at Lasham a few weeks ago - you guys amaze me with your approches.

Skill or what!

[glider insider]

Now have approx 500 launches in my log book and will never go back to cesspit flying...it just seems dull.....

if you ever get bored when gliding...then it's time you snuffed it and got buried in a box. for me, memorable highlights of gliding so far...
first solo ( obviously)
first aero tow ( bloody weird pointing the nose down at 70 kts near the ground)
first loop....
first passenger i took...

and what I now have to do is let my first student land it for the first time... the thought scares me stupid...but its one of those things that I am gonna have to do very soon! :eek:

[Pielander]

Just to update y'all on my quest for engineless enlightenment:

Back at the end of June, I decided to give the Derbyshire & Lancashire Gliding Club (http://www.dlgc.org.uk) a try. This turned out to be a wise move, and two months later, I was a converted gliding fanatic.

"What have you been doing in the holidays" school essay style thing:

My first impression I got of the site, through the heavy mist was "Airfield?... What airfield?". Camphill is a very daunting sight to a power pilot, accustomed to long stretches of flat tarmac to land on. I generally found the flying qualities of the Puchacz quite pleasing compared with the Tomahawks I had been used to, but the training was far more thorough at the most basic level than PPL training. My boundaries were pushed from the outset, and in particular, my circuit planning and general handling have improved no end since this summer.

From turning up with a PPL, it took about 30 winch launches to get to my first solo/cable break/near death experience :eek:, but not before being put through copious amounts of spinning, stalling and an occasional loop and chandelle (altitude permitting :D). I am now slowly working my way out of the early solo bracket.

I have made many new friends at the club, and now return as regularly as I can, regardless of whether the conditions are flyable. If PPRuNe rules allow it, I would like to recommend the D&LGC in particular, as well as gliding in general, to anyone who is up for a more challenging flying experience.

The End (Well, hopefully not, in fact!)

Thanks for all the encouraging comments.

Pie.

[Skylark4]

Pielander.
Now you can see why we glider pilots always claim to be better than pure power pilots whenever someone raises the question. Without that engine up front, you can really feel the aeroplane.
I don`t have that much experience but as far as I have found so far, any glider is nicer to fly than any powered aircraft.

Mike W

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Have to disagree with you very strongly, there Skylark 4. I've experience of gliding, and the sport certainly has its delights, but as far 'nice to fly' goes IMHO gliders come just above C150s and PA 28s. Very slow roll rate, for one.

Try a Chipmunk or a Yak, then see if you still think gliders are better to fly that powered aircraft.

And for aeros it's no contest. The Yak is just amazing - but a glider trying to do aeros is way out of its element. A bit like a bicycle competeing in a motor race.

Of course, Yaks don't soar too well (Chippies aren't bad!), but it's 'nice to fly' we're talking about here ;~)

SSD

[Skylark4]

SSD
By nice to fly, I mean in the day to day handling, Take-off, A to B and landing. The Grob115E is pretty good but it was built by a Glider manufacturer.

We are comparing apples and oranges here, an Extra 300 with a 17 metre wingspan would not have a great roll rate but it would do some very pretty aerobatics. Did you ever see that aero duo who used to fly a pair of RF4 motorgliders. So graceful.

The Ogar I share has the nastiest aielerons of any aircraft I have ever come across.

Mike W.

[Vfrpilotpb]

Aint nothing to beat that smell of burnt kerosene or hydrocarbons first thing in the morning, give me a big throbbing thingy anytime,
My Regards, Pansie! :D ;)

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Actually, I found the Grob 115 to be big dissapointment. Looks good, but handles like a spamcan.

Barton has 2. I flew them both. But not for long ;~)

SSD