Why do you like flying?

[Tiger_ Moth]

Huh?

[Speedbird252]

.....oh no....he`s back.

:eek:

[Kermit 180]

Theres something about flying isnt there...

The fight against gravity, watching the earth far below, trying new aircraft types, being able to go inverted, pulling off a great landing, the community of pilots, engineers, and others, parting with huge lumps of cash ( :( :confused: ), the endless booze ups, the smell of Avgas and Jet A1. The list is endless.

Wouldnt be doing anything else old chap.

Kermie :D

[Flybywyre]

I wonder if he's now got his PPL :eek:

[Final 3 Greens]

Words fail me!

[ 23 July 2001: Message edited by: Final 3 Greens ]

[Aussie Andy]

So many reasons (in no particular order)... boyhood dreams, ambitions achieved, the view, the feeling, the technical interest, the freedom, navigation, the challenge(s), etc. etc. I suppose that like (I am told) golf is, you can never master it - there's always more to learn and explore.

I think that at the moment, as only low hours PPL, I get the most excitement and satisfaction from landing - particularly at an airfield I have not previously visited, and particularly if I do it well!

Andy :)

[Tiger_ Moth]

Sort of a bit hard to describe isnt it? Planes, freedom of the skies, views etc probably have something to do with it.

[kabz]

Fanastic machinery i.e. cool aircraft. Great feeling of satisfaction from any particularly nice segment of flying, be it a good turn, take off, landing etc. The problem solving aspect. Reading the map, and having the sense of flying above it.

The solitary aspect of being up in the air, particularly in gliding.

Gliding especially, now evokes an emotion in me like being in love with a wonderful girl, an unconditional and overwhelming love.

I hope I can always fly.

[Whirlybird]

There are many things about it I like, but the main reason is that in an over regulated world where everything has been made too safe, you're on your own, just you and the aircraft and the elements and your own abilities. For some reason I find that totally addictive - even though it often terrifies me. The only other places I can think of where it applies are sailing - and I like that too, mountaineering (never tried), and wandering in wilderness areas (used to do that).

But this may be a rationalisation of what's become an addiction; if I don't fly for a bit, I just gotta get up there!

[jabberwok]

What an absolutely daft question. Almost as bad as asking "Why do you like sex?"

On second thoughts make that "worse than asking".. :D

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think that Jaberwock says it well, but I'd add "read Richard Bach".

G

[FNG]

I agree with all of the stuff above (but give poor old TM a (run and?) break!). The combination of intellectual and physical challenges, the decision making, the feeling of close connection with the machine when manoeuvreing, all that good stuff. Let me try refining the question: Why do we all fly in the various ways that we do? Some of us are tailwheelers and/or aeros junkies. Some of us enjoy planning and executing long range flights in fast machines with lots of gadgets. Some of us like building our own. Some of us (the ones with three hands and two brains perhaps) even go in those things with the wibbly wobbly tops, and so on.

As someone who inclines to the view that the blue bit looks better underneath, I was interested to note how many experienced GA ppruners confessed to spinnaphobia on the recent thread of that name in the Instructors forum. So what gets yer cookies if you don't like yanking the thing about the sky? NB this question contains no implication that one sub set of enthusiasm is better than any other.

PS: am I the only aviation junkie who wants to chunder when he reads Richard Bach? St-Exupery gets my vote, every time.

[ 25 July 2001: Message edited by: FNG ]

[Wrong Stuff]

I think it's an excellent question. A huge proportion of people who get their PPL give up within a year or two - something like 60%. If it's such a no-brainer, why do they do all the hard work and then throw in the towel?

Certainly if I was taking up something which costs 5 grand to get a licence and has such a drop out rate I'd want to know what people really get out of it before I spend the money.

[SKYYACHT]

Magical.........forget the physics of why, and just enjoy! pulling off a greaser as the sun is setting after a long cross country that has taken you accross miles of sky. The feeling of humility when you consider what the pioneers achieved. Being a part of an international brotherhood of like minded people. Knowing that you have worked damned hard to keep it all together. The meticulous preflight planning, hours of poring over a hal-mil chart, late into the night with only the odd few bottles of Newkie Brown for company... (I do double check the plans later I add!) budgeting, planning and yet more planning. Anticipation. The whole thing fascinates. Gliding or powered, as long as I get to do it often. Working to always improve my performance and skill.

I agree that Antoine De Saint-Exupery is good, but also suggest that you try "The Cannibal Queen" by Stephen Coonts, "Cloud Cuckooland" by Harald Penrose, "West with the Night" by Beryl Markham, and finally, "Alone in the Sky" by Jean Batten.

Then, like me, consider how much they did, and how much you dont know!

Tailwinds

:)

[FNG]

Also "North to the Orient" by Anne Morrow Lindbergh, "Le Grande Cirque" by Pierre Clostermann and "How we invented the Aeroplane" by some bloke from Dayton Ohio whose name I forget.

[Genghis the Engineer]

There's no standard answer to what to do with the aeroplane, and why.

I love going touring in a fastish tourer like a Warrior.

I love dropping into tiny strips in a taildragger or flexwing microlight.

I love throwing an open cockpit aeroplane around the sky for the sheer joy of it.

I used to find enormously satisfying the huge demands of bringing a Jaguar back with some decent test data and still in one piece.

I enjoy the challenge of spin-testing a new design, and coming back with both useful data and the aeroplane.

And in any of them, the view is stunning, and it always feels good to touch down on the numbers.

G

[FlyingForFun]

Genghis,

Well said! I've tried to add my thoughts to this thread a few times, but kept scrapping it because I couldn't express my feelings properly - but I think you've done it for me!

From the sounds of your reply you've got a fair bit more experience than me At only a few hours since passing my skills test, I haven't yet had a chance to fly a taildragger (but I will soon!) or microlight, and I certainly haven't done any test-flying in Jaguars!

But despite that, there's so many things that I love about flying I really don't know where to start. The thrill of take-off. The beauty of landing smoothly on the numbers (yeah, right!) The scenery, the challenge of controlling an aircraft, the challenge of navigation. I still find that looking at weather from the air, from a safe distance of course, is amazing - knowing that I can fly around the shower just by moving a control, whereas people on the ground don't have that luxury. When I look out a window at clouds from the ground, I now see a 3D picture, whereas it used to be 2D.

And I've still got so many more things that I want to learn - both so that I can enjoy the learning process, and enjoy the skill I've learnt afterwards! Taildraggers, aerobatics, night-flying, IMC, gliders, microlights, the list goes on...

There really can't be one single reason for loving flying - the whole experience is just great!

FFF
----------

[What a Loop]

To add my tuppence worth

Because I can....


Boyhood dream of wanting to fly, never able to do it. Manadged to scrap together the funds to do it, and loved it ever since the first trial lession.

I think its often in the blood you either love it and can,t get enough ( money providing), or you hate it.

All the stuff above describes it wonderfully well. I just do it now because I can and love it. Wish I could have done it earlier. :) :)

[ 25 July 2001: Message edited by: What a Loop ]

[Toppers]

Who would agree that after a long enjoyable flight someone could tell you that the world is about to end, and quite honestly, you couldn't care less.

I find I always get the "satisfied" feeling after a good trip especially if you are with a group of non-flying friends who you know cannot understand your "inner-smugness"!

[Tiger_ Moth]

Hey! Why is it that whenever I start a thread some people always use it to slate me?
Its not a dumb question, its very valid and it isnt something that everyone likes, some people hate it and those who like it often for completely different reasons.
I read Wind sand and stars by St. Exupary and I didnt like it that much, it was a bit boring and slow paced. A book I really like is Cecil Lewis' Saggitarius Rising.
Who is Bach?

[Aussie Andy]

Tiger: I think its a good question! Don't mind the others...

Andy :)

[FNG]

Tigger, Bach was a German guy who wrote some snappy tunes in the early C18. :D

Actually, the Bach referred to above is Richard Bach, an American pilot and author, who writes stuff which some regard as insightful and inspiring and others (well, me) regard as psychobabble. He is perhaps best known for "Jonathan Livingstone Seagull" which is a book about, er, a seagull, called, er, Jonathan who achieves transcendant spiritual whatever through the joys of flight. File under Watership Down and similar talking animals drivel.

Just before I retreat to the flame proof bunker, let me add that St-Ex is worth perservering with: try Vol de Nuit (Night Flight)or Pilote de Guerre (Flight to Arras). The Penguin translations are probably the best, ou peut etre essayer en Francaise? Mais non, parce que donc il faut vous appeller Stampe, et nous avons deja un ppruneur qui s'appelle Stampe et qui fait pas les postes naifs. :p ;)

PS: Tigger, we love you,
(sings....)

The wonderful thing about Tigger
Is Tigger's a wonderful thing
His undercart's made out of rubber
His tailskid is hanging on springs
He's bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy*
Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun
But the most Wonderful thing about Tigger of all
Is heeeeeeeeeeee's the only one.

*until he (1) goes around, (2) ground loops or (3) stuffs into the hedge

Edit: Old Buck 5/8/01 I narrowly avoided (3) by doing (2) as a consequence of failing to do (1).
:o :o :o :o

[ 06 August 2001: Message edited by: FNG ]

[Tricky Woo]

Hi All,

Agree regarding St Ex, although some might find his proto-existentialist musings a little off putting if they're simply looking for a flying yarn.

The early Richard Back, i.e. pre-JLS toss, are simply fantastic. Bach decided to change the direction of his writing subsequently and blew it, IMHO. Too much Acid in the sixties? Probably.

Final point: I wish some of you lot would stop trashing young TIGER_MOTH.

This kid is obviously fascinated with all things flying, although he's being a wee bit tardy about actually climbing into an aircraft. That's probably due to money, isn't it? We can put him in the same bracket as those snot-nosed kids we see peering through the wire fencing at airports, who dream of the day when they can themselves take to the air. Such kids are to be encouraged, not humiliated. I was one of 'em.

TIGER_MOTH, stick around, save up a little money, go flying, join us. It really is the blast that you think it is.

TW

[Genghis the Engineer]

Richard Bach is indeed variable.

Reading books like "A gift of wings" or "Biplane" nobody writes better about what it is to be an Aviator.

Reading books like "Bridge across forever" I really wonder what he was smoking.

Some stuff in the middle, like "Jonathon Livingstone Seagull", "Illusions" or "Out of my mind" need a pinch of salt, but are enjoyable.

Incidentally, 3 times I've loaned my copy of "A gift of wings to somebody" who has then given it back half read, telling me that they couldn't bear not to actually own a copy and have gone and bought their own to finish it. Strangely, that's how I met it too.

G

[jayemm]

Captain Noodle

Does this mean you've done both at the same time? How did you manage that?

[kabz]

I tell you ... I will not have Jonathan Livingston Seagull disparaged. It still makes me cry to read it.

I do think you have to learn to fly first, to have any appreciation of it though.

Jonathan (kabz)

[FNG]

...so I need to learn to fly before I can appreciate JLS? Looks like I am doomed to remain unenlightened then, judging by the comments of my flying acquaintances on my atttempts at aviation.

Tricky Woo, I agree with you on the subject of T-M, as on most subjects (although remind me to corrrect you one of these days about Julius Ceasar torching the library at Alexandria: it wasn't his fault, really!). T-M, hope you took my remarks in my post above in the spirit in which they were intended. keep posting, and tell us how your lessons are going.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

It was 'A Gift of Wings' that convinced me to take the plunge and learn to fly. My only regret is not doing it sooner.

I find his stuff variable. AGOW, Biplane, Stranger to the Ground are just, for me, the best. Some of his later stuff I found wierd, but I recently read 'Running From Safety' - and parts of that I read and re-read so many times I think the print wore off the page. Not much flying in it, but what writing....

SSD

[Whirlybird]

I read JLS many years ago, and re-read it after learning to fly. Nah, still don't like it - trite rubbish if you ask me, though I hope I haven't upset anyone by saying that. A Gift of Wings and Biplane are very different though - definitely some of my favourite books.

Tricky Woo, thanks for sticking up for Tiger Moth, though perhaps you were just a wee bit patronising. Stick around Tiger, you have as much right to be here as onyone else. Ignore the ageist comments; one thing is guaranteed - you will get older! And ignore people who flame you; it's probably not worth retaliating, though even we've all got annoyed and done so occasionally (like when someone on wannabes said I was talking crap but didn't say why!). You've started some good threads, and some not so good; made some good comments, and some not so good. Just like the rest of us in fact.

[FNG]

Further revision to question: Why don't we like flying? On the first page of the thread, Wrong Stuff asked why so many people lapse. Is it really as high as 60%? OK, money, family pressures etc must play a big part, but it's possible with a bit of imagination to fly pretty cheaply. Anyone out there who has packed it in and (a) is glad they did (b) wishes they hadn't?

[FlyingForFun]

FNG, would they be hanging out here if they'd packed it in??? :D

FFF
-------------

[FNG]

FFF, they might be invisible!

Bumper Sticker: Honk if your horn is broken

[criticalmass]

1. Because it's the best way of getting away from the two-dimensional world of "the ground".

2. Because of the challenge in flying the aircraft the way the manufacturer meant it to be flown and feeling it appreciate careful, confident handling.

3. Because the view's better.

4. Because it's nice to look down on the public from time to time...even if most of them are hiding in their houses.

5. Because I am building happy memories to sustain me in my frail old age.

6. Because each day should be lived as if it's your last...one day it will be.

7. Because without a wife or children I answer to no-one but myself and my maker.

8. Because only pilots and skydivers know why the birds sing.

9. Because each flight teaches something about flying, the atmosphere, and the planet itself.

10. Because in 4.5 billion years time the sun will become a red dwarf and carbonise this incongruous planet and we all should see as much of it as we can before it's gone...forever!

[pulse1]

Apart from Item 7, Critical Mass says it for me. For some strange reason my kids think that my flying added something to their street cred. so maybe that's an additional reason for me.

I once did a phsycometric test which concluded that I was an "artisan" and liked using tools - a bit of a joke as I am hopeless at DIY. I did realise however that an aircraft is the ultimate tool, being three dimensional, and I get incredible satisfaction from making it do precisely what I want it to do with as little effort as possible (not often enough). I get similar satisfaction from driving well and from sailing, but nothing touches flying for the ultimate control in the 3D world of the sky. Throw in the views and variations in weather conditions, even bad, and it does it for me. Even accurate straight and level or a well balanced turn reaches those parts of me that nothing else can. :D

[LowNSlow]

The 60% lapse rate is about right from what I've read in the various flying comics. Don't you remember the days after you'd taken all your relatives around the block for an hour? What do I do now? £100 cicuits?I felt the same for a while (bearing in mind I have been an aviation addict since nappy stage) until I was working away from home, went back to the airfield where I'd done 1/2 my PPL and did an IMC and a twin rating. Both great fun and kept my interest going until a previous instructor and mentor pointed the way to cheap(ish) flying via the PFA. End result 2 years with an Aerobat and 4 years with the Cub. Now I get twitchy if I can't go and take the air above the ground bound ones.

[Tiger_ Moth]

I have actually started my lessons now, I've had 2 and should have another one tommorrow but the weather doesnt look too good. Its really good. On the first lesson I felt a bit sick and worried that it might not go away n stuff. However the next lesson I took a different travel sickness tablet ( which dont make me drowsy or anything) and I was amazed to find that it completely worked and I felt normal. This was great because I had thought it would take me ages to get over my air sickness especially as it had been so bad. I hope it stays this way. Im up to about ex 6 but lots of things lap over and I was allowed to do a lot of turns last lesson.

[FlyingForFun]

TM,

Congrats on starting lessons - sounds like you're having a good time!

A quick note on sickness - you might like to search the web for aerobatic sights, especially related to aerobatic training. They usually contain lots of good advice on the subject. And make sure your instructor knows if you're feeling a little sick, too.

Anyway, keep having fun while you can - you'll be starting circuits soon, and that's when it starts getting a bit harder.

Take care!

FFF
--------

[FNG]

TM, let me add my congratulations on starting on your PPL. I hope that you are realising your ambition and doing it in a DH-82a. I had suspected from your other thread on gliding that the cost of the project might have been propelling you in the direction of getting a glider ticket first (not that that would be a bad thing as everyone I speak to who knows about both powered and soaring flight says that gliding promotes good piloting skills and airmanship). Good luck, keep us posted on your progress.

[SKYYACHT]

Good for you Tiger Moth......dont let the negative attitudes of some put you off......just keep asking questions, and taking lessons.....dont give up, and eventually, you will join us....

Another thought.....try Ernest K Gann for some good stuff, or also another book I just finished, called "More than a Pilot" by Don McVicar.

Tailwinds

:p

[Tiger_ Moth]

Fly in something that isnt a DH82a? Me? Thats crazy talk!
Of course Im learning in a Moth!
I dont think Ill be doing circuits that soon though as I just had another lesson cancelled due to weather and its hard to book them.
Although last lesson I felt fine I think it may have been because it was 2 days after my first lesson so it gave me less time to get "un-used to it" rather than my new travel sickness tablet. If my next lesson doesnt get cancelled then thatll be a 2 week gap so I think I might feel sick again as I find it hard to believe that a little tablet could completely solve my problem. Has anyone ever had a tablet that just miraculously works? Because I think it might have a lot more to do with the gap between flying. Always looking out and forwards and concentrating on flying the plane helps a lot though because Im flying it more rather than being a passenger, which is what a lot of people say.
Then again some of the people there said it might take about 5 hours to get over it( if you get over it and apparently an unlucky few never do) so going from barfing stations one day to feeling fine despite the flight being longer 2 days later seems quick, so maybe it does have something to do with the tablet. I dont know. Do you? Well hopefully Ill find out soon. It is a bit worrying but I suppose feeling fine on my second lesson should be encouraging when I was expecting to take ages to get over it. No one can really know as its down to the individual, some people never get sick.
Im not thinking of doing gliding in the near future but was just curious about the cost because nothing really seems to explain it properly or in terms of £/hr, but I understand it now.

[Viggen]

All of the above I agree with... but also, it's something that relatively speaking, not many people achieve (a PPL and the ability to fly an aircraft solo, that is) - there is (to me) a certain something in being able to say I can fly / hold a pilot's license. Elitist maybe (criticise me if you like) but I bet you all love it when non-flyers discover you are a pilot.

Then again I just love climbing out of my home airfield and looking at everyone on the ground getting smaller! "Here I am, flying a plane" - indescribable pleasure! So not just an aviation snob after all...

[Tricky Woo]

Hi Tigger,

Just read that you've training started training for your PPL. I'm as pleased as punch for you, especially since few of us have the imagination to do their PPL on something as wonderful as the Moth. I certainly didn't, although I wish I had now.

Good luck on your training. I'm sure the puke-thing will pass pretty quickly, even without the tablets. I had a similar problem during my first few hours, which I've now put down to simply feeling nervous about my lesson, rather than air-sickness per se. Never returned since, even after I moved on to aeros, etc.

Keep us posted on how you get on.

TW

[BlipOnTheRadar]

"Why do you like flying?" I'd often thought only a non-aviator could ask that question (no offence meant to anyone). T-M you have now committed aviation... well done :D

It is so hard to explain why I like flying, it's not the freedom (what? in classes A & C airspace !!!), it's not the view (although they can be breathtaking... see caribbeanburn in the gallery), I think it's more a state of mind, just being there. I believe it was Ernest Kellog Gann that wrote "pilot's record their time in the air as if it were the only time that was important to them"

I once had an arguement with a colleague at work (in a factory... well I have to pay for my flying somehow!) and he said "you think you're above me don't you?" to which my reply was "when I'm flying.... I am!"

I have been told by many people that I fly for the wrong reasons. I started my flying lessons in 1990 and by '92 had given up due to bad weather, lack of funds and bad friends who could not understand why I wanted to fly, because it didn't interest them they believed it shouldn't interest me either. I fly only three times in the next seven years. But it was after my brother's sudden death in a light aircraft accident in '99 that it dawned on me, time is important, it is finite, you only get a set amount and you can't stop it slipping away. I'll tell you now, getting into a light aircraft for the first time after the accident was the scariest thing I have every done, but I had to do it. Now my freinds and family think I am flying for my brother, which they believe is the wrong reason, but whatever the reason is... it is my reason and by definition cannot be right or wrong... it just is. I passed my skill test last month and I'm just waiting for the Jiffy bag to land on my doormat.

Sorry about the rambling. T-M please learn from my mistake, don't give up. You only get one life, live it your way :)

Fly safely and point the nose towards your dreams.

BOTR

p.s. Please don't dis Richard Bach, I've just finished "One" and I so want it to be true, it's the only way I'll see my brother again :(

[Richard49]

Yes it is true more than half of those who gain there PPL - give up flying completely within 2 years.

Here for it's worth (come on it must be more than tuppence)is my opinion why.

Anyone who takes their trial lesson and goes on to complete their PPL does so for 2 reasons, they want to fly as a career (the bug got them) or they become addicted. obsessed, determined to get to at least their PPL

Flying is expensive and there is a lot involved to keep and maintain your licence.

The other thing is the very quick loss of currency in skills if you don't fly frequently, interpreting TAF's, METAR's and NOTAMS', navigation skills, landings and R/T work - all this leads to I'll put it off to next week when the weather is better


I do agree with nooodle though - it definitely hlps in attracting the opposite sex! - where's that wicked evil grin icon!

[Tiger_ Moth]

I had my third lesson after a 2 week gap due to weather and felt fine so I think I have got over my air sickness. After all that worry I was only ever sick for my first lesson! Give up? Why would I do that? Ill fly until Ive got no money left.

[Kermit 180]

That's the spirit TigerMoth. Fight to the last pilot standing!!

Kermie http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft/stuka2.gif

[Tricky Woo]

Tigger,

And then you'll get some more money and carry on until that runs out... and then you'll get some more... ad nauseum.

Is flying addictive? Nah, I can give it up anytime. Just don't want to. So there.

TW