Minimums in singles

[Fuji Abound]

On a recent visit to France I was interested in the low minimum many UK pilots were willing to depart in a single. A few I spoke to had lapsed IMC's and were well aware that in any case the IMC was not valid in France. We are all aware of the recommended UK minimum, but since it is all anonymous I was interested in peoples own experiences and what they are prepared to accept. In particular I always worry about fog. Ignoring for a moment the risks on departure the conditions are often excellent VFR above but not much chance of a forced landing. Then again what is the difference with night - turn on the light and if you don’t like what you see switch it off again.

[jabberwok]

It is true that the IMC Rating has no validity outside the UK. However, those that do have (or have had) such a thing will have gained some valuable experience of IMC flight whilst holding this qualification.

If a pilot is in a situation in which the IMC Rating is invalid (abroad or lapsed fit this) there is a great temptation to consider experience the qualifying value rather than the bit of paper in the PPL. Some will be tempted and some won't.

You can't go any further with this question unless you wish individuals to say if they are breaking the law or not!

[Sensible]

How does the fog or the aircraft know whether your IMC is valid in France or not?

[JP5A]

I flew last Saturday(26th)from Blackpool-Shoreham-Deauville.Shoreham had drifting fog and fortunately rnwy was clear when we got there with fog to the south.
Thick fog acroos channel and on contact with Deauville airfield closed because of 200'cloudbase.This is below minima for an IFR approach and as usual we diverted to Caen.I go often to Deauville and the weather is often very poor.Perhaps the fact that it is 500' above sea level doesn't help and the fact that the ILS is often U/S and air traffic unhelpful all/most of time.
Getting to the original question this part of france is often wet and scuddy (last week Lille was poor also)and you do need to be very current on instruments and have a suitably equipped aircraft.Plan alternates because you will need them and remember their landing aids are not as comprehensive as ours and frequently not working!!
BUT landing fees are brilliant.Whether the IMC rating is valid or not I think it is necessary to have this as a minimum(I have IR)due to channel weather which is often very hazy or foggy.

[Fuji Abound]

Having posted the thread just to clarrify I was not intending contributors admit to illegality but I was more interested in what minimium contributors are happy with in a single and how they feel about flying over fog.

[arrow2]

I will not take off in poor conditions as described - my nerves simply would not stand it. Personally I would probably look for at least 600' base and then preferably know the layer was thin so I would quickly be clear on top.

Strange conditions this weekend in the Channel. I went to Dinard Friday afternoon, v.murky haze across channel and no discernable forward vis. Saw the coast at Cherbourg when we crossed it and then vis slowly improved over the last 20 miles or so to Dinard.

Several of our party got stuck in LFAT Saturday when the sea fog rolled in with a 200' or so base, if that. Came back yesterday from Tours in beautiful vis over France and UK, but once again the Channel had a very thin layer of fog from about 2 miles out of Le Havre right back to the coast at Littlehampton.

PS I do have a current IMC rating.

A2

[This message has been edited by arrow2 (edited 29 May 2001).]

[Bouncy Landing]

I take a similar view as Arrow2 and likewise have an IMC rating.

Of course it is not valid outside UK airspace so anyone coming back across the Channel would have to be "clear of cloud, sight of surface" etc until crossed the FIR boundary. I wonder how many leave Le Touquet and go IMC before the FIR boundary?

Interested to hear feedback on this.

[Oshkosh]

I flew to a south coast airfield last Saturday (26th) and also got caught out by the fog... had to wait on the ground for an hour before the skies cleared.

When I took off, the surface visibility was around 2500m, with no cloud directly overhead, but there was fog (base ~ 300ft, tops less than 500ft) on the climb out. I reckoned it was a reasonably safe bet as the airfield itself was clear.

Generally, I'd like 1000ft clearance between the cloudbase and the ground en route, to give me a chance if the engine conks out.

BTW, as someone who has recently gained an IR... and is a bit rusty on the rules for departing VFR and then going IFR once airborne... what are the legal minima for a VFR departure? I believe it's 1800m visibility, but is there a cloudbase requirement as well?

[M.Mouse]

When I was learning to fly an old and wise flying instructor told me he had a device for deciding if weather was suitable for single engine IFR. It was a blue card with a hole in the middle. If, when held up to the sky, the hole and the card matched in colour it was OK!

On a serious note I have had an engine failure in IMC in a single had it not been for a reasonable (1500') cloudbase a crash would have probably been the result.

It is a consideration.