IMC - a real life experience

[Fuji Abound]

When I finished my IMC rating I certainly did not feel comfortable flying hard IFR. This was not any fault of the instructors – the training provided what I suspect it sets out to – the ability to cope and get down safely if you have to. With some more experience, time with instructors and currency it is possible to become more comfortable. My thoughts are these. How many pilots with an IMC use the rating for flying hard IFR on a regular basis and how comfortable do you feel about doing so in a single. I also think that for those in this category an IR is attractive but the theory knowledge seems unrealistic for the private pilot without commercial aspirations. Would people be in favour of an American type IR for the private pilot? Finally for those who have an IR, what are the advantages over and above the greater expertise that comes with the training? Do you find it useful to fly IMC in Europe or do you fly more airways on longer trips?

[IFollowRoads]

I completed an IMC rating, and used it fairly aggressively for a while. Probably becuase I was then very low in experience, the worries did not intrude too much, but the limitations (UK airspace only, no class A) were sometimes inconvenient, and when I got a posting abroad, proved a substantial hurdle - hence I went for an IR.

The studies have already been useful on several occasions (separate occasions of blocked static & pitot, travelling further & gyro precession, weather (no 214/215 abroad!) international law & border crossing etc. etc). In any case, these are i) the cheap side of the rating, and ii) can be fitted into 'spare' time with the exception of the week consolidation and exam (you're gonna need a fortnight off work)

The flying training is hard, but works more on the procedural side of the flying - my instructor told me it is considered a professional rating - and as such the examiner expects to see a professional approach. Also bear in mind that with this rating, you are becoming qualified to share airspace with commercial traffic.

Finally, I use it to fly airways when they are low enough (but without a turbo the choice is limited), and certainly for airways crossing, where the rating saves me a 4000' descent and climb on one of my more frequent routes.

[eyeinthesky]

Concur with the comments so far, and would add that, provided you can control the aircraft competently on instruments then airways flying is miles simpler than VFR flying. You simply take off, enter CAS and are vectored or sent onto the final approach track. There is none of this VFR navigation, reporting passing auntie's house, and remain clear of this and that bit of airspace, and you don't need to worry whether you're about to be bounced by some other guy you haven't seen. As has been said already, provide you have a professional attitude to your flying and can fly straight and level on instruments (without an autopilot, preferably) then go IFR (i.e. Airways) whenever you can.

The IMC rating is also useful, provided you are aware of its limitations and remain current. If nothing else, it can get you through a layer of murk into the sunshine above (where less people usually are and conflict spotting is easier against a white cloud deck) before finding a way down at the other end. The engine failure scenario is of course one to consider, but what would your chances be realistically if you were scud running under a low cloudbase to remain VFR? I suppose you need to decide what is an acceptable risk. You are more likely to crash the car on the way to the airport than lose the engine above cloud and die.

You MUST remain current, however, and take a safety pilot along while you practice IFR approaches to IMC minima in VMC.

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"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"

[M14P]

Eyeinthesky

Are you sure that you're not over-simplifying the situation?

The stringent 'goal' related tasks of instrument flying make it significantly more demanding than VFR flying as does the extra considerations of weather and cockpit managment interms of prioritising tasks.

Don't get me wrong VFR can be really tough - especially around big control zones but you have the option of just avoiding them if you wish. Ultimately, a nice good weather, good autopilot IFR flight is great but an artficial horizon or vac pump failure on a rough/cloudy day will just increase workload way beyond any VFR flight.

I would encourage anybody to train for a full Instrument Rating because of the extra discpline it teaches but light aircraft IFR limitations (both technical and personal) must always be kept in mind.

By the way 'scud running' is not VFR.

[Gerund]

M14P -

I suppose it depends on the definition of scud running! For me, viz of 1500m and at 500', just clear of cloud, looking for home, VFR, counts!!

[This message has been edited by Gerund (edited 23 May 2001).]

[IanSeager]

IFollowRoads - I agree that the theory is the cheapest part of the IR, but as far as I am aware there are no schools that currently offer distance learning options for the JAA IR. There is a MINIMUM of 200 hours tuition for the IR, at best 5 weeks off work, and that's with a 40 hour week in the classroom. The flying training is 55 hours I believe.
Ian
This makes it very difficult for PPLs without commercial aspirations to find the time for an IR if they have the money. It is sad to say, but the realistic option for many is to do an FAA IR and to fly on the N reg.

[IFollowRoads]

I joined the PPL/IR for Europe group - they had several tips to help www.pplir.org (http://www.pplir.org)

This entailed writing to srg in the CAA, with the response that there are only two PPL/IR courses in the UK - London Guildhall and PPSC. PPSC suited me better (I didn't work in London then), and they required a letter from the CAA before I could sign up. This was last year, and I sat the writtens in September (passing thank heavens)

For the flight training, the AIC giving a 12 hour credit for an IMC rating is still valid (but runs out either this June or June next year), and 'only' 50 hours is required for a single engine course.

Of course, all this is for the 'approved' scheme, and there was/is an alternative for those with more than 700 hours or military experience - but these are changing with JAA - for those interested/affected, make sure you read the requirements carefully. One thing I had to get cleared up in respect of the training reduction for the IMC was the validity of the latter - my IMC rating was due to expire before I sat the IRT. To claim the reduction, I had to revalidate the IMC (not a problem as it turned out, it coincided with the progress check flight with the CFI of the FTO I was training for the IR with) In any case, to claim the reduction the IMC rating has to have been valid from the start to the end of the IR training, and current when the training was being received.

All this said, certainly when the time comes to change aircraft, I will be looking thoroughly at the FAA/N reg. situation, as with -6/-5 eyesight, I will never get a class 1 medical which bars me from commercial flying. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I used my IMC rating nearly every day and I used it to its full extent. In fact within 10 days of completing the course I flew Cranfield to Exeter in IMC from 1500' outbound, dead reckoning for the middle section (weekend - no mil radar available and all radio aids out of range) then radar vectored ILS to minima after a speedy descent through an icing layer.

Puts hairs on your chest. Like most pilots I look back and wince at my lack of experience at the time. HOWEVER. *This* is how you acquire said experience.

WWW

[twistedenginestarter]

Weasley

Don't understand your 'radio aids out of range' but who cares - I'm off to Exeter.

The excellent Nobody Inn is near by and I need the hairs on my chest. ;)

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Well, with the radio aid fit i had available and with certain facilities being NOTAM'd as u/s that day there happened to be a period whereby I had only the option of dead reckoning my navigation whilst keeping a FIS updated about my estimated position.

In fact I was getting a FIS of Bristol who could quite clearly see my transponder but I was outside of their permitted service range for RIS/RAS.

WWW

[JP5A]

I have had a twin IR rating for 10 years now and have used it extensively for business purposes.It means you always get there as long as the base is above minima which is usually about 250'.Seldom is the cloud base below this.
To fly IFR you do need three things-an IR,a suitably equipped aircraft with all the kit working,and be in current practice.
I do believe,however,that the IR course is difficult and expensive for PPL's and I wouldn't like to have to do it all again.I did the theory at PPSC over several months on a correspondence course followed by a week of consolidation down in Bournmouth.The practical part was done at Ravenair and was very satisfying and enjoyable to see one's skill level increase to a very high standard.I dare say that the flying carried out during the exam is probably the best and most proffesional one ever achieves.
Anyway,good luck to anyone taking the plunge.

[JP5A]

OOOps 'scuse the spelling in previous post.

[Tarmach]

Arent you guys worried about iceing when you fly a PA28 in IMC conditions above the freezing level?

[Fuji Abound]

Having posted the thread the replies are brilliant. It has certainly made me more enthusiastic about a PPL / IR. I was surprised to find the self-improver route is still available until 2002 and the CAA PPL / IR exams until November 2001. I wonder whether the self-improver route is a good one to follow - potentially it seems less time consuming. I was also interested to learn that the CAA IR gives a PPL no rights to fly IMC / IFR in Europe - so say the CAA. Can this be correct? To be fair there was a bit of reverse logic in that the helpful chap I spoke to said an IR rating obtained under national licensing of a European State would not be recognised in the UK. He went on to explain that your CAA PPL could be converted to a JAR PPL together with the IR and would then be recognised in all member states. The JAR PPL would then need to be renewed every 5 years I think BUT you could also retain your CAA PPL along side. All very interesting. Have all the CAA PPL / IR's been operating technically illegally in Europe or have I misunderstood?

[Fuji Abound]

Tarmach

Yes certainly - whenever I have been above the freezing level I am worried about icing and then I am still worried about the engine stopping, the AI failing, the GPS on which I definitely don’t rely forgetting where the sats are, etc. Seriously, it seems to me all about try to manage all the risks, which just get greater in IMC. Mind you, I like the Cirrius idea of a ballistic parachute when it all goes really pear shaped - and no I am not a Cirrius sales rep.