Base training in SIM or in the aircraft?

[MD80rookie]

Attention all of you who know more than I:

This discussion came up today during cruise. At on TRTO (airline owned) you can do the base training in the simulator, via the other school (private owned) it has to be done in the aircraft.
Same aircraft type, the very same simulator being used for the type rating training, length of course the same, both TRTO's JAA-land.

Why?

[zlocko2002]

i have never heard for base training done in sim. its 5 or 6 t/g in real aircraft...

[fantom]

Because an airline or TRTO may choose to be 'zero flight time' or not. If they are authorised ZFT then everything may be done in the sim. If not, the number of circuits required in a real aircraft is determined by the experience of the individual. If, for example, he has 737 time and is converting to the fabulous Airbus, then only four are required. If he comes from a KingAir, then six (I think).

[MD80rookie]

Thanks fantom, the fab Airbus it is!

ZFT auth or not was what I was looking for.

[TopBunk]

In my career, I only once did base training, that was on joining onto a B737-200 from a piston twin. On subsequent conversions to B747-400, A320 and back to B747-400 I never visited base with the aircraft - ie the first sectors were with a training captain and passengers.

Never an issue within a properly conducted training environment with the appropriately rated simulators etc.

[PA38-Pilot]

I did my A320 base training in the simulator. First real flight on the aircraft was with passengers in a regular flight.

[parabellum]

I consider myself very lucky. When I joined an overseas airline where the regulatory authority was, shall we say, very staid in it's ways, they insisted that if one was new to type then a mandatory six circuits and one GA were required for licence issue. Poling a B747-400 around the circuit is a great feeling! The airline became ZFT about two years after I joined so my colleagues were not so fortunate.

[shortfuel]

...even though a TRTO is ZFTT-approved, you still have to be eligible to do your base training in the sim, i.e. experience required on a relevant type of aeroplane (FCL 1.261...)

[DeltaGolf]

i did my base in the real aircraft, A318... a friend of mine who entered the company to the B767 fleet, he did it in the aircraft as well..

only once though.. after we upgrade to another aircraft, SIM Only

[josmison]

guys please somebody confirm

a training provider told me that if the trainiing is done in a level D sim

no need for base training in the actual aircraft

[rudderrudderrat]

Shortfuel is correct. It depends on your previous type(s) in order to satisfy "experience required on a relevant type of aeroplane (FCL 1.261...)"

[MD80rookie]

Another long cruise today - I had some time to catch up on my OPS 1.261(c) (2) studies...

The TRTO must be with an operator holding an JAR-OPS AOC, or closely associated with such a company. The line flying is restricted to that company as well.

Most likely will a new type be introduced in the company, so discussions are going on where/how/who/ .... and when!

Thanks for all your replies.

/Becoming less Rookie

[mcdhu]

My Part DF says to do ZFT, you need:

Level D Sim
500hrs on similar type or 'relevant' type - MTOM not less than 10T or seats for not less that 20 passengers.
Can't use early or late slots.
Max of 3 trainees/4hr slot.