Maximum duty time rules

[airman13]

Hi,
my question is if a flight crew may be assigned for duty as follows:
-reported local time 08 15
-last chocks on 20 00
in my company we add 15 minutes after last chocks on, so we have 12 hrs duty.
Because they are 4 sectors, the max duty period is 13hrs - 1/2hr for each sector after the third sector,so max duty period is 12 hrs for this situation.
Is it OK to have same max duty period and duty time?

[bfisk]

Yes.

And remember to keep your terms correct - duty and FLIGHT duty is NOT the same. What you are talking about is having 12 hours duty (OK) and 12 hours (or 11:45, don't have the definitions, we add 5 min to FDP after touchdown, but 30 mins after touchdown for duty) FDP. Max daily FDP with 4 sectors would be 12 hours so that would be ok then... But a bit tight if you're even the slightest bit delayed downroute!

[airman13]

bfisk,
my terms are correct, is no matter about flight duty time or flight duty period but only duty time which includes flight duty time +1 hour before the beginning of flight+time between sectors +15 minutes following last chocks on, so, because this is the first time when I will have the duty in a day with the maximum permitted, I saw it may varies on some companies to have maximum permitted as duty time + 30 minutes or so, that is to say for my situation to had 11 30(duty time) at most........

[Bealzebub]

Flight time limitations are often a complicated subject, with rules and definitions that may well vary between one country and another and even between one country and a supranational authority. Add to this the many variations that may be approved to an individual operators approved scheme and it becomes almost impossible for anybody to give a specific answer without a full understanding of the rules of the scheme that is applicable in your case. However your own operations manual should provide the clarification you are seeking.

As the previous poster stated, there are significant differences in a "duty period" and a "flight duty period." The former often has no limits, provided the latter is adhered to. Nevertheless subsequent rest periods and cumulative limits are often based on the former.

Flight duty periods are often a planning constraint rather than an operating constraint, in that they are used to calculate what is allowable at the planning stage of the duty rather than the length of the flight duty period when the event actually occurs. That is why "discretion" is provided as a tool to prevent the planning limits from necessarily becoming operating limits on the day. Obviously FDP is a limiting factor on the day, but there is some flexibility that is not otherwise allowed at the roster planning stage.

Usually a "flight duty period" (FDP) is established as the time you are notionally required to report for duty until the aircraft arrives on blocks at its final destination. The "duty period" (DP) will include any time allowed for post flight duties including any subsequent positioning, waiting or duty, that is at the behest of the company.

If your rules are different in that 15 minutes of post flight duty is included into the FDP, then that would restrict the companies planning policy accordingly, although it wouldn't normally restrict the operation of that duty with all the same provisos with regard to discretion etc.

In the example you have given and with the structure you have described, it would seem that the FDP described is (08:15 - 20:15 including your post arrival 15 minutes.) that is 12 hours.
You describe the FTL as (Because they are 4 sectors, the max duty period is 13hrs - 1/2hr for each sector after the third sector,so max duty period is 12 hrs for this situation.) 12 hours.
In fact your description would actually allow 12.5 hours, however I suspect you actually mean "after the second sector"?

So the answer in any event would be yes! If the FTL for Flight duty purposes is 12 hours and your planned FDP is 12 hours then that is absolutely fine. The FDP is the only limit in this case, not the subsequent and continuous duty period. Indeed if you were required to position to another airport or base, that "duty period" might go on for many hours. Only the cumulative limits and subsequent rest periods would be affected by this figure. In other words it is not at all unusual for the duty period to exceed the max FDP, and therefore it is certainly OK for the FDP and "duty period" to be of the same length.

[bfisk]

Because they are 4 sectors, the max duty period is 13hrs - 1/2hr for each sector after the third sector,so max duty period is 12 hrs for this situation.

This is the statement that lead me to believe that you are mixing apples and pears.

The number of sectors does not influence your duty period. It only influences your FDP.

[BOAC]

I agree FDP and Duty appear to be confused here, but surely the simplest way is for 'airman' to post the definitions of both from his OM? It all looks fine to me on what I see.