Grumman AA5

[N380UA]

Hi all . .. .I’m playing with the thought of buying a Grumman AA5 (series) Tiger.. .Unfortunately I haven’t had the chance to fly one myself and all I know is from what I have reed on different occasions. I’m looking for practicable comments of current owners, pros / cons, costs, etc. especially within Europe.. .Cheers

[Polar_stereographic]

Used to have a share in one.. .. .Personaly, I would not recomend operating off grass. Nose wheel a tad delicate, plus in winter on wet grass with any wind, steering can be fun as there is no nose wheel steering. Go carefuly with the earlier models with the smaller tail surfaces as they run out of elevator in the flare. . .. .On the plus side, they are just great to fly. Superb controls, reasonably quick and plenty around so maintenance is not an issue.. .. .Happy to talk further.. .. .PS

[foghorn]

Wonderful, wonderful aircraft.. .. .Well balanced responsive controls, fast (one of the fastest 180hp fixed pitch a/c - will cruise at 120 KIAS with power to spare), excellent cockpit position with good visibility, and there are plenty of them and their lower-powered sisters the AA5 and AA5A in the UK.. .. .On the downside I've heard that they do occasionally have fuel leak problems, and they have the usual Grumman AA5-series problems with the delicate free-castoring nosewheel and snappy wing-drop at the stall (if you're used to Piper a/c).. .. .I think the elevator problem that p_s refers to is only on the original 150hp Grumman AA5 Traveler, not the AA5B Tiger.. .. .Glad to hear that they're coming back into production (again).. .. .cheers!. .foggy.

[LowNSlow]

Agree with foggy, great aeroplane. Faster and far nicer to fly (and to look out of) than any fixed gear PA-28/C172 variant with the possible exception of the Reims Rocket.. .. .Noseleg can be delicate on the AA-5 due to small tail feathers and thus not enough elevator power to keep the weight off the nosewheel. The AA-5B has a larger tailplane but also has a heavier engine which can excaberate the problem. Even so, it's still worth having the AA-5B over the AA-5 or the AA-5A. That 180hp gets it moving.. .. .Only major problem with older ones was debonding of the trailing edges. The purple stain is a giveaway though. I think it can be cured by rivetting which does spoil the looks a little but is a relatively cheap cure.. .. .Go get one. Let me fly it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Family fighter sums it up I think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .polar_stereographic, the one you had a share in wouldn't have been PV, used to live in SOTON would it?. . . . <small>[ 05 March 2002, 20:10: Message edited by: LowNSlow ]</small>

[N380UA]

There are some really great comments on the little „Family Fighter“ here, thanks!. .I’m still working on convincing the government but I’m sure she’ll have a lot of fun with the new toy.. .I did read about the Grumman purple glue problem though I’ve been told that there are a variety of cheap fixes if needed.. .Well LowNSlow, I’ll let you know when I find me a nice one – I’ll charge you a pint for every pattern that should be a fair price and due for a good time at the local waterhole.. .. .Thanks all.

[Polar_stereographic]

LowNSlow,. .. .No, my one was SH at Popham, a Traveller.. .. .I have flown in PV with a former owner. Used as a trainer also by Solent Flight I beleive.. .. .PS

[PHANTOM-1609]

Good old PV. .. .Saw her recently when I was over at moses for some mantainance on my arrow.. .. .Used to fly the old horse at Solent. When she was very very tired. Bad paint and half the instruments didn't work.. .. .Lets hope no one crashes her like the rest of the former solent aa5 mounts..... . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[LowNSlow]

N38OUA you're on for the pint per pattern but I suspect that crossing the pond for a pint may be a tad expensive... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Polar & phantom, remember the tatty old aerobat that Solent had. Yup, that was mine. She was much nicer after the strip & paint. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .I heard that Nutty had lost G-OMOG. Pity, she was a nice flyer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[N380UA]

LNS. .I’ll be approaching your isle from the other side – I guess I just have to cross the river, not the pond.

[Polar_stereographic]

LowNSlow,. .. .Lat I heard, Nutty's lost all. Took a sabatecal out of aviation to run a Pub. In the process, lost all, inc wife and family and let his licences lapse. Now as he was teaching on Grandfather rights, ie no CPL, the CAA said tuff when he reapplied for an instructors ticket.. .. .Last I saw of him, he was drinking on his own in some airfield club room. . .. .Sorry, edited out. Made me feel bad leaving it in.. .. .PS. . . . <small>[ 08 March 2002, 12:01: Message edited by: Polar_stereographic ]</small>

[Yankee]

Hi Grumpys. .. .Don’t take offence that’s what we call our self’s. <a href="http://home.pi.be/~andre17/" target="_blank">http://home.pi.be/~andre17/</a> That’s a group of Grumman pilots in Europe closely associated with the AYA ( American Yankee Association) <a href="http://www.aya.org/" target="_blank">www.aya.org/</a> the International Grumman owners club. They should be your first port of call for all things Grumman followed by the Grumman Gang <a href="http://www.grumman.net/gangster/" target="_blank">www.grumman.net/gangster/</a> . The latter forum is primarily full of American based queries, but is a good forum to monitor for helpful tips.. .The AYA has members throughout Europe and if you would like to send me a personal message I am sure we could put you in touch with someone close to you.. .When, not if, you buy your AA5 and get to the UK, if you want to join in you will be in the company of a great bunch of guys who regularly meet up at weekends for Bacon Buttys etc. Check out the Grumpy web site for what else we get up to on longer trips.. .Polar, the BASH group (Bashers) have a great web site <a href="http://www.skertch.freeserve.co.uk/bashgroup.htm" target="_blank">www.skertch.freeserve.co.uk/bashgroup.htm</a> if you want to keep up with their latest news, great bunch of guys who are also associated with the Grumpys and AYA. . .As for John, take as you see, is my motto. Had very little dealings with him, those I had were quite amicable, Grummans were our common interest. Aviation is too small a world to fall out with anyone. All I would say he likes AA5’s . .Photom, must know you from somewhere, PV is now, as you have seen a very tidy plane, New paint, New Leather interior, the front seats cushions just need to be lowered a bit so you can see the top radio, and New Avionics. Mosses has plans to make it even better. Just goes to show what you can do with a sows ear. . .Snappy wing Drop, AA1 Yankee may be. Not saying you didn’t, but never experienced that myself. Ailerons stay effective up to and into the stall.. .Noseleg delicate, depends on how you land them. If taught right no problem, if you land or try to takeoff in thick mud, should you be using that field in any plane, asking for trouble.. .When reading the above please accept that I am biased, I just love these planes. . .If anyone following this thread wants to know more about the AYA or Grummans in general feel free to contact me on my e-mail address. I’ll talk Grumman’s all night, be warned

[Polar_stereographic]

Yankee,. .. .I am still in touch with some of the BASHers, and I agree, they are a very pro active group. Good luck to them.. .. .EDIT: Sorry, same comment as above.. .. .As for the AA5, yes, lovely plane in all respects airbourne, but in my view (and it's a personal one), it's not that great operating off grass in a wet UK winter. To be honest, that is one of the main reasons I left the BASH group. As I said, it's a personal thing. . .. .PS. . . . <small>[ 08 March 2002, 12:02: Message edited by: Polar_stereographic ]</small>

[Yankee]

Polar. .. .Can’t disagree with what you say there, the AA5 (one L) Traveler, does not make the ideal soft, wet grass operator. Horses for courses. Sandown very much comes to mind. At one stage our group Traveler was banded from some grass fields, but that wasn’t a plane issue, rather a pilot one. It was far easier saying the plane couldn’t go there rather saying you, you and you can, but you can’t, if you get my drift.. .. .Once remember sitting at Popham watching the said John Nutter demonstrating short field take-offs in the Cheetah. It rolled down from the Petrol Station end and well within a 50yds the nose was being held off the ground whilst the plane accelerated. I sat there and envied him the large tail plane of the Cheetah over the Traveler. I asked him on his return if he had ever managed to carry out a similar take-off in the Traveler and he said don’t bother it just won’t do it like that, the tail plane is too small.. .I found that the use of a small amount of flap helped in getting off the ground early on wet grass and then accelerating in ground effect. Not covered in the POH I know but it was a personal thing. But one has to be careful because you are lifting off well under climb speed.. .. .Now we have a Tiger and it’s making us real lazy.. .. .One of the best things that is happening to the 150hp Cheetah’s and Traveler’s is that at O/H there is a STC which is now accepted by the CAA to up grade the engine to a de-rated 160hp unit. De-rated, as it is still rated a 150hp unit, but at a lower red line RPM. However you still have available that extra power when you need it, i.e, take-off and climb. The engine is capable of safely delivering 160hp, but to do so would mean carrying out extensive flight test to re-write the performance spec on the aircraft in the POH, which is CAA cost prohibited.. . . .Threre is one aspect of a Grumman that is unusual and that is most of owners feel they belong to a very close family and the AYA enhances that feeling, world wide.

[LowNSlow]

polar, if you see Nutts around anywhere, give him my regards. Sorry to hear he lost it all, I learned a lot from him (about flying that is). I hope he gets back on his feet soon.. .. .What happened to G-OMOG I heard that she was lost through a noseleg collapse?. . . . <small>[ 09 March 2002, 09:46: Message edited by: LowNSlow ]</small>

[PHANTOM-1609]

Heard the same about Nutter. Last known living in a caravan park in Hamble. A bit of a rough diamond, but never did me any harm. Always heard we was into various ventures, but with other peoples money. . .As for the AA5's. Was flying BJDO, BIPV, OMOG from solent and hiring PORK from BM. Then solent brought in the Katana's (plastic motor glider) didn't last. Then shiny new PA28's. The AA5's may not be shiny any more, but far better to fly than the forementioned tubs. In tiger guise, more speed than the warrior (which flies like a barge). Better access, flaps, fuel selector etc.. .Mainly flew from concrete so never had an issue with nose wheel.. .Its a good thig there back in production. To give those nasty pipers and cessna's a run for their money.. .Note the only thing I've flown recently I liked almost as much id the beach 26, sundowner. Plenty of room, two doors and a sturdy undercarriage. 180 hp fixed, but not many about.. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 10 March 2002, 13:32: Message edited by: PHANTOM-1609 ]</small>

[Yankee]

Beach Sunflower, very sturdy plane, but on the same engine the Tiger leaves it standing. Came back from the CI's in one some month's back, left EGJB infront of our group Tiger and awaited the overtaking manoeuvre. There's nothing like flying in someone elses plane being overtaken by yours.. .Four up both planes.