Teamsters shreading Polar quality of life contract

[Squealinglikeapig]

Rumour has it that Teamsters local pres. Joe Muckle just inked off on a TA to hand over 4 extra work days a month to management. Now poor ole Atlas management really needed those concessions, after all they have only been reporting record profits, quarter over quarter, year over year. Come on now, please, someone tell me it aint true.
Pilot groups looking for representation? No need to look any further, just come on over to the Teamsters, Bourne and his cronies with have you bent over screaming like little piggies in no time.

[411A]

I worked for two different companies that had pilot representation with the Teamsters (in both cases, they were voted in just after I departed for greener pastures), and in each case....the company folded within five years.

[atlast]

" with have you " ?
I am with; have you?
are you with 'have you'?
Do you have an education?
Squealing like a pig? Does that mean happy squeals?
Screaming like little piggies? You have knowledge with little piggies?
Is that the education you have?

So many questions, like,

Are you a Teamster? and if so, have you contacted a steward or representative regarding this rumor?

Are you even a union member?

Where have you heard the rumor from?

How do you 'shread' a contract?

How could you believe something so preposterous and then pontificate as if it were gospel?

Inquiring minds, with educations, would like to know.

[Neptunus Rex]

Inquiring minds, with educations, (sic) would like to know.Enquiring minds would like to know just what you are smokin'?

[IslamoradaFlyer]

So Squealer...what you are saying...if my basic math is correct...that after almost 4 years under the stellar contract your guys got for you in '05...what was that? 10% for 18 months?...and all the obfuscation since then...what looks like close to a 40% pay raise and profit sharing is unacceptable?

Maybe you should have your guys really negotiate instead of obfuscate. Really worked out well, huh?

One of these days, management and indeed the entire industry will cave in and accept your leaderships superior logic and negotiating skills....:ok::ok:...yeah.

[IslamoradaFlyer]

411A...care to share which two and under what circumstances?

And maybe how it relates to this case?

Using your logic, since I know guys who were at Braniff, PanAm, Eastern and TWA; all of whom folded, ALPA must REALLY be bad!

[Squealinglikeapig]

...what looks like close to a 40% pay raise and profit sharing is unacceptable?


Really????????? Guess I just must have missed where and when they inked that one. Maybe we just ought to give um 30 days a month for an unspecified rate and profit sharing.

[411A]

all of whom folded, ALPA must REALLY be bad!

As bad as it gets, just ask the guys at EAL that applied to DAL, and how they were shafted at DAL.
A sad story, make no mistake.
ALPA=ALPO...a well known previous dog food brand.:rolleyes:

[Fr8Dog]

Rumour has it that Teamsters local pres. Joe Muckle just inked off on a TA to hand over 4 extra work days a month to management.

What makes you think Muckle has ANYTHING to do with what is going on with the Atlas & Polar negotiations?

I can see that "Here we go again" with the Alas Polar bashing thing.

I'll just sit back and watch the fireworks commence!

FR8

[WrldWide]

Since when does a Union Local president unilaterally ink a deal with management on any contract issue? If there is a TA, it will be voted on by the membership, and then it will pass or it will fail.

Something tells me the "squealer" has very little experience in a union, or maybe none at all.

[Miami Freight]

Actually in this case the membership will not get to ratify the TA. It is the negotiation of a single contract between two pilot groups and the company. Any remaining open sections will be decided by an arbitrator. At this point I would just as soon let the arbitrator start making decisions for us. Can't do worse than our current reps.

[Fr8Dog]

Miami Freight

Actually in this case the membership will not get to ratify the TA. It the negotiation of a single contract between to pilot groups and the company. Any remaining open sections will be decided by an arbitrator. At this point I would just as soon let the arbitrator start making decisions for us. Can't do worse than our current reps.

Couldn't help myself here, I sure hope you have nothing to do with the negotiations after reading your post!! You pass 8th grade English?

Sometimes it scares me to death after reading some of the posts that they let these guys in an aircraft at all other than as a passenger.

:ugh: FR8

[Miami Freight]

Thank you for the constructive criticism. I should have proof read my post more thoroughly.

I think what you meant to say is "Did you pass 8th grade English?"

[Fr8Dog]

Miami Freight

Thank you for the constructive criticism. I should have proof read my post more thoroughly.

I think what you meant to say is "Did you pass 8th grade English?"


Did you proof read it at all?

What a :mad: :ugh:

FR8

[kikker43]

Most duty rigs stop while you are in your domicile .For the Atlas home and gateway based crew members this is great. However after one or two overnights for the Polar Crew members in their ANC , CVG or LAX domicile , the duty rig is useless. They will work 20 days for a 65 hour guarantee. This is a pig with lipstick

[DownIn3Green]

411A is right...Unions do not hire pilots, regardless of how much the loyal ALPO cool-aid drinkers push the issue...

I was there when DAL took over some of the fleet of EAL B-727's and ALPO promised jobs...Only Mgmt Pilots need apply...DAL didn't even have the courtesy to change the tail numbers...

And as ALPO stated, everyone who "holds the line" in 1989 would have "priority" hiring at UAL...

What airline would hire a bunch of s..t stirrers?

It"s all down to the individual...do what you think is right...think for yourself and keep your job or drink the cool-aid and go down with the ship...

Alos, as an aside...speaking of ALPO, the issue at ALPO re: EAL was not contract or anything along that line...The IAM struck, and ALPO and the Teamsters (F/A's) both directed their members to honor that line...

Just think back to 1989 and recall what was the dominant carrier in ATL...when you remember it was EAL, try to remember who was ALPO's President...(hint: A DAL Captain with initials of H.D)

Last bit of info...who is the head of the FAA (Capt. R. Blabber?) and what was he doing in 1989???

Glad he finally got his...but how did it happen???...at he expense of the pilot group he used to be a part of is my guess...

[GlueBall]

Another asswipe ALPO discrimination snafu involved just-retired age-60 senior pilots, who were offered jobs only as new hire copilots at the bottom of the seniority list after age-65 mandatory retirement had kicked in. [Delta] Go figure.

[FirstStep]

I can't help but feel that this "Rumor" began, and has since been fueled, by "fear". Fear of the unknown. Fear of what may happen. These ARE trying times, as we have to trust our elected officials to do their best, in our interests. ( much scepticism ). Do you have any alternatives?. Communication of what they are trying to get, or will be satisfied in getting, is impossible. The negotiators are a "blend" of both subsidiaries, are they not?. I was led to believe so. Don't let the "fear" of what may happen override your living day by day. You obviously can't control what's going on, so let it go.
There will be a time when the ball is back in our court.

[Squealinglikeapig]

I can't help but feel that this "Rumor" began, and has since been fueled, by "fear".

Fear? Fear my stinking hiney. It's more like the thought of sitting around on "de facto reserve" in some gin joint hotel in some whacked out crazy ass country for 4 extra days a month because scheduling can't get their act together. With the lines we're running they ought to be able to put together 65 hour lines in 12 days let alone 16 days. And now their asking for 20, and our own union says, "sure by all means", without even having a pay scale set. Yes sir mister boss man, we know your making record profits and taking home fine bonuses while the crews live on a sub industry standard contract. Just what else can we give up, so you boys can go have a good laugh at the country club about how you stuck it to labor this time. Jesus a** Christ

[IslamoradaFlyer]

Miami Freight has is about as wrong as Squealer. If an agreement is reached, it will go out for membership vote. That's why Polar has been dogging it. They know a majority vote would put a contract in place and they are still believing Bahamas and Boobin. That worked out really good...

Fact is, two of the three parties have been trying to get a deal for years. One has poured enough sand in the gear case to choke a JT-8. And now that they see none of the grand get rich quick schemes are gonna bear fruit and they are throwing everything at the wall.

What I want to know is that if negotiations are kept under wraps and the parties were admonished to do so at the last meeting; how did the supposed deal and info about the TA leak out before the meeting concluded that day? Only two people left the room with their cellphones in warp overdrive. The company and Atlas sat at the table from what I hear.

Polar...news flash...you can't win the integrity battle when you can't be trusted to honor your word.

Anyone with a wit's backround on negotiations knows that a TA's section can also be used as a bargaining chip for other things before the whole deal is TA'd. But nooooooooo...Polar knows better.

Like I said before; look at that stellar deal from '05. Courtesy of an MEC chairman who wet his pants and CAVED IN 36 HOURS into the 30 day cooling off. And when he'd shown his cards and proven he was in no position to bargain, he went back and asked for more!

Bit of history. He cost the Polar crews over $5 grand each (7 for Captains) in signing bonuses, Profit Sharing and and additional 5% pay increase. What is it they say in the Guiness commercial?

BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!

Another sad fact. Polar pilots want the airline to be sold. Since your stunt in '05? Nobody wants you. They tried. No one wanted a group of people who demonstrated that they could not play well with anyone and felt the world owed them something. And then turned around and screwed the very people who made it possible to keep your jobs. Because the company was perfectly willing to sit out your strike and let you vaporize. Why? Because your empty scheduled service cost more money than parking the planes. Yep. They MADE MONEY by parking the planes and not having to buy fuel to fly the planes around.

Yet more crack planning by your MEC.

Nothing’s changed. The reputation and attitude precede you.

BH and now BK seem to have no problem flushing you down the drain. After all, there’s a pilot shortage. No one’s available, right? You’ll bring them TO THIER KNEES.

Sound familiar?

BH said he had no problem with 250-300 job losses; “acceptable collateral damage” he called it for him to never wear an Atlas uniform. Wonder how those guys feel.

Apparently BK has no problem either. He seems to forget what the arbitrator said when he crammed the Scope arbitration down BH and Boobin’s throat. That the company has the right to run its business in a manner they see fit.

And Squealer..."substandard industry contract?" After what YOUR guys negotiated in '05, you're whining about "substandard?" And then they refused to negotiate in '06, '07 and '08 when the economy was still strong?

But that's OK. The majors are begging you to come aboard to tell them how they've been doing it wrong also:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Fr8Dog]

IslamoradaFlyer

So refreshing, I'll yank gear for you anytime!

:D:ok:

FR8

[beachjet]

What's wrong guys? Can't get your head wrapped around the idea that we ALL got sold out by DB & your beloved Teamsters? There will be NO VOTE on this piece of sh*t. You guys are clueless when it comes to arbitrations! Quality of life/work rule improvements - NONE. Maybe a small pay bump, but if they already did this, count on SCOPE to be out of the question & still be neutered by a NO STRIKE clause. The company's only negotiating proposals have been "Atlas book" unless they wanted to throw more holes in it.

Rather than be the Holier than thou spelling/grammar police; I'd suggest you hunt down SR and press him for the TRUTH. For that matter, call BK. He will tell the TRUTH to any & all Atlas or Polar pilot.

You may find it interesting to find out why we have the sub-par legal team up against the company's A-Team. Or better yet; why we have the arbitrator that we do. Before you spew any more hatred towards the Polar side...go ask direct questions to your reps (if you can even get ahold of them). Go get the details for yourself. We'll be waiting...

[Squealinglikeapig]

In this business you only get what you negotiate. The company ain't giving up one wooden nickel unless its more painful not to. I see thread after thread full of subterfuge, misdirection and babble from everything from mis-spelling to past union arguements. But the facts are we are giving concessions away while the company is rolling in money. Line pilots I know only care about two things. How many days at home and whats the pay. Both pilot groups are taking it in the shorts. How you can defend that is beyond me.
Cheers

[IslamoradaFlyer]

In this business you only get what you negotiate. The company ain't giving up one wooden nickel unless its more painful not to. I see thread after thread full of subterfuge, misdirection and babble from everything from mis-spelling to past union arguements. But the facts are we are giving concessions away while the company is rolling in money. Line pilots I know only care about two things. How many days at home and whats the pay. Both pilot groups are taking it in the shorts. How you can defend that is beyond me.
Cheers

Well, again in your case, you got nothing when Boobie wet his pants in '05. And your "crack legal team;" or was it a legal team on___, filed their amazing greivances that all got you zippo.

So do tell us. Your guys got you zip in '05 and you're still taking it in the shorts. How's that working out for ya?

Who's buying you this week? BK telling the TRUTH? About what? More of Boobie's revisionist history?

Tell you what. Keep listening to him as he sells you and your jobs down the river. And if it's that bad here? Hey, Tradewinds is hiring. I bet they'd love you.

[beachjet]

The Polar strike happened to save the work rules. Grievences happened to save the work rules. The company HATES the Polar work rules. With proper work rules, the lower pay rate nets the same total $$$ as Atlas; if we all worked the same number of days, we can make more. Atlas book is garbage with absolutely NO WORK RULES. Do me a favor & READ both contracts side by side. Atlas has nothing. Name calling is childish & you my friend are a tool. The Teamsters is not a panacea that will bring you wealth & riches. In fact they are selling us (combined) out in record time, When DW & BK get voted down by the Atlas guys & Teamsters we all lose. We are going to be issued a sh*t contract in the end. Who will you blame then & why? Polar has won plenty of grievances; that's why they hate us. You guys don't have the intestinal fortitude to fight for a damn thing...although your grammar may be correct.

Cheers

[nitty-gritty]

I noted the locals President, J. Muckle, came out with a statement. Most likely to counter the back alley attempts by the Polar TEC to shoot the local and negotiation's committee in the foot, let alone violating the agreement of the negotiation terms. The Polar TEC wants to blow it up and this is their chosen method as they have attempted in the past. I guess they want to roll the dice with an arbiter making all the decisions on the contract for both groups during the upcoming merger arbitration. Alaska Airlines crews didn't do very well with an arbiter making the decisions and it cost them. The Muckle statement seems to put to rest a lot or at least as much as could be during ongoing negotiations of the purposely selected portions of the sect. 25 TA released by the Polar TEC to create more useless animosity again.

What B.K. and D.D. on the Polar side spread around behind the scenes seems to be select pieces of information for their group to start or get a reaction and create more discontent. Not something useful like, discontent in the management ranks but between the union groups again. Seems to be a repeat of history on how the Polar union side wants to conduct business inter-union again.

Listening to the Polar group during scheduled conference calls only confirms the Polar TEC separatist actions. It is clear the Polar group is given the wrong information. Many calls by the Polar side during conference calls are "when are we going to be able to strike!" Which is not an option in this merger at all. You guys need to realize that you have been told a lot of BS consistently through the years. History has proven this out also, which also has driven us to this point.
History such as why we decertified ALPA because of Polar's inequivalent representation purchased by Polar voting for Prater.
History such as why the Atlas crew group got Battle Star's under your ALPA for conducting the only sympathy strike in ALPA history for another cargo carrier, but nothing but scab accusations by Polar when others flew your freight.
History as the mentioned, "No Strike" clause at the risk of Atlas crewmembers jobs not crossing a line was determined by a federal judge that we didn't have to cross if someone at Polar held a legal picket line instead of just putting signs in the dirt around the airport which your MEC failed to mention to you.
History of the Polar MEC lying about the three temporary restraining order's against the Atlas crewmembers by a federal judge. Of which, one upheld the particulars of the "No Strike" clause allowing our crewmembers not to cross.
I can go on with documentation on much more such as their actions against Atlas crewmembers and not just strike stuff, but I'm tired and need another beer.In the end, I'm a trade unionist. I want us to work together, but I realize that it is not possible with some. If I could, I would kick Polar to the side of the road and move on after their actions and they have attempted that many times already to us. That is not an option in this situation. So I guess you guys need to either work with us or get to the back and shut up since you are just a fraction of the whole. In my opinion, Polar has been alloted more representation in proportion than you should be allowed considering your numbers. This is not a winner take all situation, but I hope we take advantage of the Polar work rules as much as possible. No one is magically going to buy you despite what your TEC says. If you think you are more righteous, your documented history doesn't say so.

Always enjoy first time posters when new issues internally come up from the Polar side of the argument. It's almost like we have seen the writing before somewhere else.

[beachjet]

Oh, now that's rich! Oh, yes sir Masser sir...I be just sittin' right here in da back 'o da bus & be keepin' my mouth shut. Uhm hmmm! The great arrogant geniuses have spoken. Sounds like a great basis for a DFR (Duty of Fair Representation) lawsuit. Let's see, 17 days extendable 3 for both line holders & reserve. Polar was 16 days extendable ZERO for line holders & 3 for reserve only. You must not like time off, huh? "Progress" was made in negotiations because you guys have successfully negotiated against yourselves. I'm sure the company never backed down from their non-proposals. I'm pretty confident that the "protections" being built in will have so many holes in them that you can fly a 747 through them. Not only that, but the company will "interpret" your so-called protections another way & tell you to grieve it. I hope I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt it. I hope you guys enjoy this sh*t sandwich for the next 10 years till it's time for another contract. Bottom line is that we both should be in seperate Section 6 negotiations right now & "merge" those contracts. Then there would have been leverage. D.B. saw to it that didn't happen. This would almost be laughable if it wasn't so painful & destructive. Guess what...once you caved on the days, you won't get them back later. Good on you! You guys are true men of genius! ;-)

[bpp]

Hey Beachjet... where exactly did you get your information regarding the scheduling TA? I haven't seen anything released officially from the TEC or the negotiating team. Why beat each other over the head until we see exactly what it says? Maybe you have someone on the inside, perhaps a TEC co-chair?

Tell us where you got your information, please.

bpp

[flite idol]

"Name calling is childish & you my friend are a tool." quote of the week!

[Fr8Dog]

"Name calling is childish & you my friend are a tool." quote of the week!

Gotta love it don't you? :D

[WhaleDriver]

Hey Beachjet... where exactly did you get your information regarding the scheduling TA? I haven't seen anything released officially from the TEC or the negotiating team. Why beat each other over the head until we see exactly what it says? Maybe you have someone on the inside, perhaps a TEC co-chair?

Tell us where you got your information, please.

bpp

Check for a Blastmail from Joe Muckle, yesterday.

[bpp]

I read the blast mail. I was asking Beachjet for his source.

Thanks anyway,

bpp

[beachjet]

Call your reps & demand answers & not spin. In fact, call S.R. & D.B. & ask them why we don't have an experienced arbitration attorney like Dan Katz up against Segal. Ask them why we have the arbitrator we have rather than one of the FIRST list the company sent over. They gave them a pass because "they didn't mean to send that list"! Bullsh*t!

I get it...you guys hate everything Polar. The gap was 16+0 and 17+4. Line holders at Polar could NEVER be extended involuntarily. Hell, look around the industry. Even Evergreen has 16 days, two weeks of vacation takes out the whole month for guarantee, lower 48 trans-con is business class or better & outside the lower 48 business class or better. Not bad, eh?

Ya'll want to hurry this train wreck up. OK, Ready, Fire, Aim! We'd be better off with the arbitrator. Obviously you guys have never taken the time to read the Polar contract; I've read both cover to cover. This is only the first step. What happens next with Scope? Ask the A-Star/ABX guys how the big pay rates work without Scope. Go get the details on my first 2 items. You guys should be pissed off about the real answers.

Ciao

[nitty-gritty]

The great arrogant geniuses have spoken. Sounds like a great basis for a DFR (Duty of Fair Representation) lawsuit. Put up or shut up as they say.

We on the Atlas side were actually told by ALPA legal staff we had grounds for a DFR against ALPA because of their actions under Prater. It was easier, quicker and cheaper to decertify them and we did. All because of Polar's and ALPA's actions. Taking our red headed step child (Polar) with us under the single carrier determination by the NMB which was filed by the Atlas crewmembers. Not that we wanted you, just strategy to keep Polar from being used against us as in the past.

My personal opinion is that your getting more representation than your group deserves considering your numbers to the whole group and not even considering your groups actions in the past. That aside, your group is just pissed that they no longer get preferential treatment as before. When splits happen on these issues the Local president (Muckle) gets the deciding vote and that is what happened. Don't it suck when there is a level playing field. Hell, I want to work only twice a month and none of those days on Saturday, but do I realistically expect that to happen? NO!

Judging from your groups past negotiating ploys and tactics, your group doesn't know how to negotiate looking at the results from your last contract and especially the time it took. So yes, sit in the back of the car and shut up The adults are talking. Your group has little understanding of what is realistic and just want to blow up the merger thinking someone wants your company.

I for one am tired of this constant whipsawing of Polar against Atlas and Atlas against Polar crews by management. The merger solves this. Thinking otherwise is being naive.

[beachjet]

OK, let's talk about the fact that the Teamsters had the perfect opportunity to put both Atlas & Polar into Section 6 because both of our contracts were beyond the ammendable date. We both should have had the same openers (not just the best of our current contracts...FedEx & UPS as well). Then it would be easy to "merge" the same contract & we'd have the leverage of the end-game of the Railway Labor Act (strike). D.B. wouldn't let that on happen. One horse out of the barn.

Alright, instead we go for the best of both. Polar work rules & Atlas payscale. That would have been beneficial to both, no? How long is this contract going to be & then how long to negotiate the next one beyond the ammendable date? For now, the value of the Polar work rules is gone for one less day of extension on your side. Not even the 16 days were kept. Guess what...it's much easier to get pay increases than getting the days back. Horse two gone.

I'll tell you what. I don't want to fight with you, so let's look at the positive shall we. We can talk about the exorbitant, windfall of a pay raise we will get for your one less day. Keep in mind you guys might, just might get a small pay bump for that one day while the wretches on the other side will be getting a HUGE raise. :D Seems fair considering the quality of life work rules that had the company pretty much hemmed up will be destroyed. I'll be sitting here in da back 'o da bus. Drive on my brutha!

[IslamoradaFlyer]

OK, let's talk about the fact that the Teamsters had the perfect opportunity to put both Atlas & Polar into Section 6 because both of our contracts were beyond the ammendable date. We both should have had the same openers (not just the best of our current contracts...FedEx & UPS as well). Then it would be easy to "merge" the same contract & we'd have the leverage of the end-game of the Railway Labor Act (strike). D.B. wouldn't let that on happen. One horse out of the barn.

Lets DO talk about this, genius. Polar has been hollering for Separate Section 6 discussions since the merger was announced. Why? Because Polar still contends there is NO MERGER. Separate Section 6 discussions would, in their mind, only confirm it. Despite the fact that the entire airline has been merged and the carrier has been ruled a "single carrier." But not in your brilliant legal minds.

But let's go a step farther; or backward in this case. In 2005, when your MEC DEMANDED to be allowed to re negotiate your CBA prior to the merger, everyone said the same thing. Take what the company offers in $$, use it to strengthed your work rules. Get a deal and then we can go forward, combine the best of both and get a great CBA. Great job you did there. Once again, everyone was out to get poor, misunderstood Polar. The geniuses of the industry who caved in 36 hours into your cooling off. Who once again are being abused.

Alright, instead we go for the best of both. Polar work rules & Atlas payscale. That would have been beneficial to both, no? How long is this contract going to be & then how long to negotiate the next one beyond the ammendable date? For now, the value of the Polar work rules is gone for one less day of extension on your side. Not even the 16 days were kept. Guess what...it's much easier to get pay increases than getting the days back. Horse two gone.

Let's talk about amendable dates. Had your leadership not pissed off the company, Cato would have been gone in late '05...FACT. Thanks to Boobie, you guys breathed life into him. Why? Because no management is going to be seen as letting one of their own go because of a union. Especially one whose leadership is as psychotic as yours. Then there was your little issue of crapping on the only pilot group who walked out for you. Did FedEx? UAL? CAL? ANYONE????...

We could have; and in hindsight, should have, let you vaporize yourselves. You crapped on our people. Your leadership wanted to stop flights that supported Hurricane Katrina...and OUR TROOPS. How much support would anyone in ALPA had given you if that had gotten out?

We could have had a contract in '06...'07...could have stopped the decert DEAD IN IT'S TRACKS. When you whine about the IBT, look in the mirror. YOU are the reason. YOUR leadership coerced Prater into sandbagging the merger, despite the Executive Boards direction. They got tired of Bobbies cowboy boots and black back of "facts" that were feedlot dung. IBT?? You brought that on. Well done.

Call your reps & demand answers & not spin. In fact, call S.R. & D.B. & ask them why we don't have an experienced arbitration attorney like Dan Katz up against Segal. Ask them why we have the arbitrator we have rather than one of the FIRST list the company sent over. They gave them a pass because "they didn't mean to send that list"! Bullsh*t!

Tell us. How many times have YOU called S.R.? (Don't forget, phone's have records that can be checked)

And let's DO talk about Dan "Mr. Preparation" Katz. Who asked to Atlas side IN FRONT OF THE ARBITRATOR for documents that he didn't know existed that SUNK YOUR CASE. And whined when Jeff Freund said "no."

Let's TALK ABOUT his "expert bankruptcy witness." Whose sworn testimony showed that his "expertise" was five years of beer drinking at Auburn (his words) sitting in bankruptcy court and reading the WSJ.

We can talk about his lack of preparation, his P.O.'ing the arbitrator with being caught in lies. Yes, let's talk.

Let's talk about the document that he claimed no knowledge of from 2001 when your MEC was notified by the company that the merged Polar would only be 150 or so pilots and FIVE -400's. Confirmed by YOUR contract administrator, Ev Barber.

And lets talk about how he tried to get a third party to get an Atlas consultant to do work for him, not disclosing who it was for.

Yes, the BRILLIANT Dan Katz. Ask the Airways guys or anyone else he's represented how good he is.


I get it...you guys hate everything Polar. The gap was 16+0 and 17+4. Line holders at Polar could NEVER be extended involuntarily. Hell, look around the industry. Even Evergreen has 16 days, two weeks of vacation takes out the whole month for guarantee, lower 48 trans-con is business class or better & outside the lower 48 business class or better. Not bad, eh?

Nah, we don't hate you. We're just amazed on a daily basis how with such geniuses you have running your show, you haven't taken over the airline industry, hell, the WORLD!

The only thing I can't figure out is this. Why haven't you filed a greivance against Atlas for a scope violation on the Houston Shuttle? Your argument for struck work was that it included cargo from anyone who had EVER shipped a package on Polar.

So using that logic, I'm assuming somewhere along the line, you carried a casket or two. PASSENGERS!!! And now ATLAS is VIOLATING your scope by flying passengers!!!

Ya'll want to hurry this train wreck up. OK, Ready, Fire, Aim! We'd be better off with the arbitrator. Obviously you guys have never taken the time to read the Polar contract; I've read both cover to cover. This is only the first step. What happens next with Scope? Ask the A-Star/ABX guys how the big pay rates work without Scope. Go get the details on my first 2 items. You guys should be pissed off about the real answers.

Here I'll happily agree with you. This would have been MUCH better without an arbitrator. So WHY didn't Boobie get it done? The ONLY persons to blame for that are your own. The ARBITRATOR IS YOUR DOING.

B.K. has picked up the baton and it now is his doing. He's been told his greivances have no merit, so he goes around spreading feedlot dung.

Yes, we understand. Everyone is picking on poor Polar. You are the BASTIONS of integrity. Every mothers son and daughter wants to grow up to be a Polar pilot.

And since no one is giving you what you want, you’re going to show all of us who’s in charge and hold your breath until you turn blue.

OK...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[nitty-gritty]

I would also like to add a note that most of beechjet's points were addressed repeatedly during many of the Polar/Atlas conference calls. Calls that were originally just Polar conference calls until the Atlas side got wind of them. Then they became joint calls. Probably why we don't have many anymore. Too many guys in official positions to call BS if it starts getting too deep and the Polar TEC may have to answer correctly vs what they have been saying behind the scenes to their group.

IslamoradaFlyer and my answers seem to follow the answers by those of the Atlas/Polar TEC joint calls. While the Polar TEC remained quiet for the most part on those calls once they became joint Atlas/Polar calls, none of the Polar TEC countered/corrected the answers reflected in IslamoradaFlyer and my answers here on the conditions of the merger. My guess is due to the fact that the Polar TEC tell their group something completely different and wrong or encourage it behind the scenes where the Polar TEC cannot be held accountable for it by the local. You can tell during those calls when the Polar membership questions come up that they have been told something else entirely on the merger.

[beachjet]

Ohhh, I got BOLD & COLORS! I must be hitting several nerves at once. Neat. I apologize for not getting back to you sooner, I was out celebrating my windfall.

Let’s just see where to jump in. First off, I never said that we should be in Section 6 to stay separate. That part is over with the single carrier status. The fact remains that we both have “expired” contracts under the RLA. What I said was we both should have entered into Section 6 with the same openers & use the law & leverage it affords us to advance both sides & then combine. Polar is not the reason for the arbitrator. Dave Bourne signed the agreement with the company as the Head of the Teamsters that spelled out binding arbitration.

The fact of the matter is Atlas has NEVER entered into Section 6 to make advances to your very first contract; which your guys agree have no work rules. Polar did & the negotiating stance of the company was “Atlas work rules & Polar payscale” with their arms crossed. We can argue till we’re blue in the face about anything & everything, but in the end Polar was able to keep the contract intact & achieve a small (10%) pay bump. Granted, it’s not up to the Atlas level, but we did save the ENTIRE contract. You guys have never tried to advance your side or fix your work rules in Section 6. Instead, you listened to Cato & the company & blamed Polar.

Cato’s job was to simply move the ball & divert attention so the company would never pay one more nickel to the crewmembers. He did his job. It’s always employees v. company with the bargaining agent (at the time ALPA) representing the one group. Argue over the conflict of Atlas/Polar/ALPA all day, but in the end ALPA had the obligation to fight for & represent both of us separately as individual carriers. You guys should have been in Section 6 with them. Having the agreement of binding arbitration based on 2 expired contracts was the company’s wet dream. They get to decimate the Polar work rules & reward Atlas with only a small increase in pay. This is the train wreck.

Make no mistake, for the last 2 years Polar has had no representation & you guys have been driving. Sure, some of our guys have been “involved”, but our input has never been welcomed. If it was, it was later disregarded because the “adults” knew better. This whole charade is frustrating to both sides & it will continue for at least another year to get through arbitration. So much for the 6 months you guys promised, huh? In the end we will have an arbitrated abortion that will be laid squarely at your feet, NOT POLAR’S.

For the record, I do not hate Atlas crewmembers. I’ve met many that are fantastic people. I’m done with your childish name-calling. At some point there will be a point to take this contract (beyond it’s amendable date) to the end game of the RLA. Can I count on you to fight then or you won’t care because you’ll be retired & not care about what you leave behind?

[IslamoradaFlyer]

Beechjet:

Everyone get's the same worn out message. Polar has done nothing wrong and was always right. Atlas and the industry are all wrong. So there's no sense reminding you how your MEC volunteered to cross our picket lines in '02. How Boobie said in '03 that 250-300 Polar job losses were "acceptable collateral damage" for him to never wear an Atlas uniform. How he demanded that Polar be allowed to negotiate a contract first in '05. And he caved in on you. How he attacked the very people who were the only ones in the industry to support you. And how he used Prater in '07 and '08 to block the JCBA. And how he used over one million dollars of ALPA members hard earned dues money paying Dan Katz to represent Polar on greivance arbitrations that legally should have been handled by ALPA Legal, not Dan Katz. The same ALPA Legal that told Prater they had no merit and exposed ALPA to a DFR from Atlas pilots for the harm being caused. (and Katz blew anyway) That's a million bucks ALPA could sure use now.

So it all moves to the IBT and Boobie starts up the Victrola again at the first meeting in ILM. Armed with his flightbag of revisionist history that no one would take three days to listen to. Then to DC, accusing IBT of nefarious deeds. Their legal department got the docs and reviewed them because the Airline Division recused themselves so Boobie wouldn't be able to scream coverup; he did anyway.

IBT Legal said there was no merit. Yet, your leadership keeps beating the drum and dragging their knuckles.

Tell you what. And I say this with all sincerity. If you, and collectively the Polar pilots REALLY want to get something positive done, tell BK to quit throwing sand in the gearbox. The merger is done. No "special rights" for Polar if any part of the airline ever gets sold. Why? Because the pilots don't own it.

There could have been a much better deal in '07. And '08. Fact is, the JCBA could have been voted upon. Your comment that it was signed away is pure fallacy. Truth is, your leadership said flat out they would reject any JCBA; meaning it would go to arbitration. Had they not been so incompetent, there could have been a strong CBA and we'd likely be renegotiating it now.

So seriously, if you really want to make this work and get something decent; understanding that what was "leaked" could have been used for leverage for something better..until it was leaked..tell BK to stop negotiating in public.

Because at the end of the day, the only careers that he will screw up are yours. And he hasn't got that right.

[nitty-gritty]

This constant harping like a 5 year old wanting candy on going back to separate section 6's is getting old. Brought on mostly by B.H. regularly at those previously mentioned conference calls when they let him have time on the phone. The negotiation council then has to go over it again which usually breaks down into R.D. and everyone else getting nauseated and saying "that water is under the bridge and has been covered many times with him on calls and meetings."

So that ship has sailed.

But to entertain the thought and the logic if it did happen your way, do you honestly think it would work? In the beginning we had separate negotiations going on Atlas initial and Polar section 6. Polar instead of staying on the same track and timeline as Atlas in negotiations for dual job action leverage, Polar voted for a 18 month delay in negotiations if they got some extra pay from the company. Thus taking our dual job action leverage away. Paving the way for the company to use us against each other by moving A/C back and fourth and furloughing since the company had a year and a half between our countdowns to strike ------- oh Hell, why do I need to repeat it all again. Just read the slide show that was evidence at one hearing or another. The stuff above starts around slide 4 and also shows even more examples. Requires shockwave plug-in your browser.

(Click on each image to cont. No "back" button, you'll just have to reload and start from beginning. Sorry)

ADR Panel Slide show (http://cptaudio.com/merger/Oct31ADRPanel.swf)

For all practical purposes, your group cannot be trusted to do the right thing during any kind of attempted coordination. History has shown that. Your leadership has jumped at every opportunity to make a quick gain at Atlas crews expense and have never shown any solidarity for anyone else in action while always demanding it of others. So I see your logic as a repeat of history. We both agree we don't want to be merged to each other, but I don't want Polar to be a tool used against me anymore. Judging from the votes for the IBT, the rest of the Atlas group feels the same way.

That is why the decert happened and why the Polar situation has been dealt with in this manner. To keep you from being used against us any more. So to speak, the Polar leadership has brought this on themselves by their actions and it has bit them and the Polar group in the ass.

[agmonaco]

Duty rig at Polar does not stop because you are in base.. you are still guaranteed 65 hours for your line even if you are on a base layover. and all lines never exceed 17 days including days in base as long as there are lines that are 15 days or less that equally off set the 17 day lines.. many of our lines are as low as 13 days. and those too are guaranteed to a minimum of 65 hours. any reserve line is guaranteed 65 hours and 16 days work. If a reserve gets extended we get 4.2 hours duty rig per day or flying time whichever is greater and the 2-4-6-6-hours pay OT on top of the guaranteed rig or flying time. Again OT is added above guarantee or flying time..and we cannot be extended more than 3 days on a reserve line unless he agrees to the assignment.. And they cannot extend you without guaranteeing that you have a flight b4 the extension. Line holders never can be assigned reserve in their line or extended. in either case if those parameters are not met the Polar Pilot can refuse the assignment. If for some reason like a plane breakdown and a line holder; or reserve over 19 days is extended because the Co. cannot get him home.. its 12 hours OT per day guaranteed on top of rig or flying time.

you are misinformed about the Polar Contract.

respectfully your Polar Brother

[agmonaco]

So.. as far as section 25 goes for the Polar Pilots.. Our contract has been decimated. I see so much conflict here. I have never talked to a Atlas Pilot that didn't envy our duty rigs. We can plan our lives at Polar. The company cannot move our days off. So let me ask any of you a question.. Does anyone know what they agreed to on section 25? DW and BK from what I hear were excluded from the final decision. And DW helped write our Polar contract where it was iron clad. The BS of "the company will make it's best effort" lies".... only applied to breakfast for us and many things at Atlas.The Company only made their best effort not to get us breakfast..And Atlas.. where did they ever make their best effort on your contract? Hmmmm. The Polar Pilots are a vital part of this airline.. and deserve good representation. What was received for sacrificing the Polar scheduling work rules?.. was it worth it? We will see... and I bet the new contract is a sieve like Atlas's old one. Our MEC never gave up our rights without a vote like at Atlas. You need DW and BK.. They are a huge asset.. in my humble opinion. The Polar Contract was better contract than the Atlas one in all aspects except hourly pay.. We are all in this together.. Polar Pilots are not going away. JM says our new contract will be one of the best.. compared to whose? Evergreen? Who else fly's 20 days a month and cannot depend on a day off not to be moved now? Yes Atlas has benefited from the way Polar has been treated in the past..all the growth has gone to Atlas and we have been squeezed down to 6 aircraft with many of our flights flown by Atlas. We Polar Pilots are' the red headed step children.. But soon we will all be the red headed step children in a merged seniority list.. I am sure of that..

I hope I am soooo wrong about our new contract......

agmonaco

[Fr8Dog]

Oh God, I think I am going to puke!

[agmonaco]

Fr8dog must of just heard about Polar Option 1.. Yaa I'd puke too if I knew I gave that one up for nothing.. That was when the Company gave a Polar line holder a schedule change in his line after he left base.. then when he passed through his base again he could quit flying for the month and go home and still paid his minimum 65 hour guarantee. yaa I am sure our neg. committee gave up that one. and fr8dog?!.. after you're done.. tell me what we got for that work rule!

[WhaleDriver]

Fr8dog must of just heard about Polar Option 1.. Yaa I'd puke too if I knew I gave that one up for nothing.. That was when the Company gave a Polar line holder a schedule change in his line after he left base.. then when he passed through his base again he could quit flying for the month and go home and still paid his minimum 65 hour guarantee. yaa I am sure our neg. committee gave up that one. and fr8dog?!.. after you're done.. tell me what we got for that work rule!

Please explain the logic in such a rule, except to be a pain. This kind of rule is proof that Polar had no plans to ever follow any of these rules because Polar was going to be shut down or sold.

[IslamoradaFlyer]

Good news! Delta's hiring. So's Air Tran and Jet Blue.

[agmonaco]

It is incredible the amount of contempt some' of you have for the Polar Pilots. The majority of you that fly on our aircraft and that I have met are great. For what ever reason these work rules of ours that were negotiated were hard fraught for and agreed to by the company. I am sure there was a lot of give and take in the process. Some of you have the opinion that we were going to cross your potential picket line when you threatened to strike years ago. I find that totally inconsistent with the Polar Pilot group, knowing them so well, considering no Polar Pilot ever crossed our Picket line during our strike. And the belief within our group is totally to the contrary that anyone would cross yours ever. We both benefit from the good points of each others contract as far as future negotiating value to our future contract. Except for what may of happened just now with section 25. As far as the future sale of Polar, I find that amuzing considering how much money we make for AWH. And the Polar Pilot group is a hard workng bunch when we are on duty. 99% on time reliability with Polar and the huge loads. And we want nothing at your expense at Atlas, believe me.We wish all of you felt the same.. obviously not considering some of these remarks.. Divide and conquer.. That hurts us all.

[nitty-gritty]

Time for some rumor control, fact checking and truth telling.

FACT:
DW and BK have been at EVERY meeting.unless THEY chose to no show it.
They AGREED with everyone on the TA. To say that they have been less than honest with you and the Polar pilots would be the understatement of the year.
Dave Bourne has NOT been at any of our negotiations. With the exception of one meeting where he stuck his head in and asked, "how's it going?" He hasn't been involved with our discussions. Ask BK and DW's. Here's what Bourne did do when he stuck his head in. We heard BK asked for his help. Seems someone on the Polar side "forgot" to schedule an arbitration hearing and a guy got terminated. BK then ASKED Bourne in front of everyone for his help. Bourne called the company and got them to agree to hold the hearing. Your guy got his job back.
BK insisted Bourne come to dinner with everyone and had no problem glad handing him and saying it wouldn't have happened without Bourne's help. FANTASY:
"We have been squeezed down to 6 aircraft with many of our flights flown by Atlas."MORE FACTS:


Polar artificially grew when the Atlas Classic's were moved to Polar and over 250 Atlas crewmembers were furloughed as retribution for us signing a contract. Those aircraft were Atlas aircraft, yet when they came back to Atlas, Polar demanded that our crewmembers be denied their seats on their own aircraft. During 2001, Bob Fell, your MEC Chairman who had been invited to sit in on our negotiations. BF was advised that the company plan at the time of merger was that Polar's crew force would be approximately 150 pilots for the -400 fleet crew force. This was confirmed to him in a memo from Everett Barber, your ALPA contract administrator who was also there at the negotiations. Here in PDF (cptaudio.com/merger/PACMEC.pdf)

The above referenced memo was "missing" during your merger committee's seniority presentation. We had it. And is pissed the arbitrator off that your side eventually admitted to knowing about it, but "forgot" to include it. Then asked us for a "copy." (You can thank Henderson, Hair and Katz for that).

The reason Polar shrank was the direct result of two things. First, the company TOLD your leadership what the merger sized Polar would be in 2001. The fact that BF, BH and the rest lied to you about it is something you need to ask them about. Demand answers why. Truth is, they knew it, our MEC told them they needed to come clean and they decided you didn't deserve to be told.

Remember when Polar was going to be the surviving carrier? Instead of being smart and finding ways to mend fences, your MEC and Negotiating Chairman went out of their way to keep sticking management in the eye. Result? They decided that your leadership couldn't be trusted and they changed their mind about the survivor.

Another fact, your scope is worthless. So are most. As proven by the arbitration that was guaranteed to give you back all your planes, flying and everything else that BH lost. Why? Because as the arbitrator said, you can't argue one sentence, you must prove the totality. And your scope clearly allows the company to operate its business in a manner it sees fit. In reality; as BH "forgot" to tell you, no court in the land will allow a labor group to force a company to operate its enterprise in a manner that is detrimental to the survival of the business. In the extreme, it's called "force majeure" and is used to gut a contract in bankruptcy? The planes, flying and customers belong to the corporation, not the pilot group and Polar found that out.

Do you get more poking them in the eye or flying to Purchase with Prater's toadie Randy Helling and calling them liars before the meeting on scope even before the meeting starts or do you get more by trying to find ways to work together in the beginning? The answer by now should be pretty clear. Standing their pissing on the new guys desk before even saying hello is a guarantee to make him a lifelong enemy under any conditions despite being unprofessional.

BTW, this is the same thing Bobb and Robin Hair did the very first time they met Flynn, who hadn't been on the job but a few weeks. Said the new CEO had to be a liar because he was sitting there with his management team. Not a great way to start a negotiation to say the least.

If you want to know where your jobs have gone, look at Bobb, look at BK. Ask Fell why he didn't "fess up about 150 jobs and no Classic's advised by the company. Look at your negotiators and look at Prater's ALPA. Instead of reigning in the actions of Bobb H, knowing it would cost you jobs, they fed his ego and belief that he was a genius. The same Bobb who told us and our MEC in 2003 that the loss of 250-300 jobs was "acceptable collateral damage" for him to never wear an Atlas uniform. Got to wonder how those guys and their families feel about that.

Poor Bobb. He's living on a junk houseboat tied up in the Bahamas and throwing Jimmy Buffett theme parties. He's a big wheel out there. How many Polar guys are out of jobs because of his ego? How many more jobs will be lost because BK is doing the same thing?

Here is what is really sad. Right now, we'd be finishing up negotiations on our SECOND, post bankruptcy contract if Bobb had shown any integrity and shown any real concern for the Polar crewmembers he claimed he was representing. Instead, we're where we are. And with just one customer, you are at more risk than anyone until this JCBA is done.

And a DFR? Well, I guess if you have guys who want to pull out their checkbooks, so be it.

[agmonaco]

Interesting my last thread was not posted but responded to.. Again my point is is that it is incredible the contempt some of the Atlas Pilots have for the Polar Pilots. As far as 250 furloughs were caused to Atlas by Polar is a stretch. B4 the Polar strike we had 11 aircraft and we were shrunk to 7 and now 6. I was furloughed for 14 months a year after the Polar strike.. due to our' reduction. And Atlas does' fly our scheduled Polar flights when Polar Aircraft are in maintenance We never fly Atlas flights. Like I said b4.. the majority of the Atlas Pilots are great. The ones that have such contempt for us is interesting considering we really never had any effect on ACMI. We are scheduled freight for DHL and Polar, but we do kinda compete with Atlas against the carriers they fly for. and we make a ton of money for AWH.. Polar is 99% on time and reliable.. and we are a hard working bunch when we are scheduled to fly.

My' whole point here was the Scheduling rigs that Polar fraught so hard for have been given up and I do not know yet what for except a 17 plus 3 work month. I have heard many of my Atlas Brothers complain bitterly about their work rules or lack there of. I HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED YET. What did we get in return for the Polar rigs that were of equal value.. or did we give them up for free?. No one has answered that question..

[747pylot]

man you guys are relentless. agree to disagree and move the F&CK on. quit pointing fingers and figure out how BOTH sides(becoming ONE) can benefit and look to a long term future with this company. sitting here behind the anonimity of a computer is chx sh&T, instead of trying to make things worse, make them better. we will only benefit in the long run. just my 2$.

[TEA COOZY]

Amen 747, the collective few are causing more problems with their complaints than providing solutions. If you have nothing to add other than complaining about the other side, how about wrapping your lips around a beer and shut the f..k up until this is all over. If you have a chance to vote then by all means cast your vote, but if all you have to contribute is a bunch of finger pointing and bitching, than keep it to yourself.

[nitty-gritty]

An email by President Muckle on 08-20-2010 was put out to the whole of the Atlas/Polar group explaining your issue on sect. 25 in detail.

An email by the whole Atlas/Polar TEC on 08-26-2010 was put out also explained how the Atlas and Polar TEC stood on the issues and explaining such came out.

I would post them, but I thought that only members in good standing should see them and not the masses in general here.

If your not on the list for 1224 email, you chose to be left in the dark or your not a member in good standing and deserve to be left in the dark. More than likely another flunky trying the tactic below.

I believe there was no intent to just disagree here among peers.

This is just another underground effort to sway influence by the Polar TEC (source of the selective information leak), the Polar side of the neg. committee, and the ex Polar MEC to their masses again. I even have a Polar MEC chairperson in print mention how selective information could be put out on these anonymous sites for such purposes. Maybe I should post that, but I imagine I would be immediately barred due to names being included on it. Others have been barred for less on these discussions.

If anyone of the Polar group wants answers, I suggest they call the Atlas side of the TEC or even the 1224 President. It is obvious that the Polar TEC & committees do not say the whole truth, but only what they want heard when they are in a solely Polar group to stir up discontent in the hopes of getting some sort of extra influence (squeaky wheel). I've noticed they refrain from doing so when in a mixed group of the Atlas and Polar guys or committees.

[agmonaco]

Nitty gritty said..."It is obvious that the Polar TEC & committees do not say the whole truth." I have never seen them lie. There is no upside to them lying.. Your claims are just words. unsubstantiated.

I was just wondering what Polar work rules were given up for? The truth will be quite evident soon enough when the new contract is finished. I will hold judgment 'till then.

"shut the F..K up" "Chx SH&T" mann those are ur words.. I tried to be totally above board here. People were "puking on me here.. adios.... your words define you.

[Beaver_Driver]

Interesting research coming from the negotiating committee - stuff I bet B.K. will not be very forthcoming about: Just two of the comparisons follow. Ready for this?

The average Polar crewmember currently is actually away from home 13.5 hours longer each month than the average Atlas crewmember.

The number of scheduled days off that the company uses from each Polar crewmember is virtually the same as those used for Atlas crewmember 4.5 days PER YEAR average PER CREWMEMBER.

So all this BS is really just BS. Likely the Polar crewmembers will work 13.5 hours per month less and make almost 40% more than they currently make.

Sheeees..... sounds like SOMEONE might have a hidden agenda and is inciting his crewmembers for no good reason. hhmmmmmm.....

[JohnGalt]

Pylot 747 opines, "...man you guys are relentless. agree to disagree and move the F&CK on. quit pointing fingers and figure out how BOTH sides(becoming ONE) can benefit and look to a long term future..."

I totally agree.

Anyone notice how the Atlas/Polar collective CBA negotiations are dominated by just a few players (ie, Nitty, Beachjet, Fr8dog, Agmonaca, and Islamorada)?

Anyone notice how childish (am too, am not) and how irrational their "points of order" are? Constantly blaming past sins by the other side for the cause of their current predicament . Neither party acknowledging, offering, or suggesting on how to resolve this Hatfield-McCoy feud.

It seems to me that this is a game of perpetual "one-upsmanship."

Kinda reminds of a song by Robert Earl Keen, "...The road goes on forever and the party never ends..."

Sad!

[IslamoradaFlyer]

Anytime you have two groups with strongly held beliefs, there will be debate and rancor. Bringing facts to bear to counter rumor and innuendo is never bad as long as they are verifiable.

What is important is the message to both groups sent last week:


Dear Crewmembers,

This is a Special Message from the Transitional Executive Council (TEC) and your Negotiating Committee. Your Union representatives were in Washington, DC for bargaining August 30, 2010 through September 2, 2010. We did not reach a tentative agreement; therefore, we are now preparing to submit all unresolved issues to the arbitrator for a final and binding resolution beginning October 19, 2010.

Your Union does not fear arbitration. From the beginning, we have said that we will enter into tentative agreements with management when we believe that what management is offering is as good or better than what is achievable through arbitration. If we believe we can get a better result through arbitration, we will not hesitate to reject management’s proposals in favor of litigating our dispute. We remain willing to negotiate, but we will arbitrate to protect the interests of Crewmembers and their families.

Benjamin Franklin said it best when he wrote, “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.” Your Union leadership is speaking to you with a powerful and unified voice. Now is the time for Atlas and Polar Crewmembers to close ranks and unify around the singular goal of securing a CBA that rewards all Crewmembers for making the Company one of the most profitable airlines in the world.

The IBT is the largest and most powerful union in North America. The Teamsters represent employees across every craft and class in the airline industry, as well as hundreds of other industries and occupations. With 1.4 million members and vast resources, the IBT defends members’ rights from the cockpit to the halls of Congress and beyond. Rest assured that the pilot leadership at Atlas and Polar, along with every Crewmember and their families, has the full support of the IBT.

Going forward, we want every Crewmember to play an active role in the Union. Build solidarity and don’t let anyone or anything divide us. If you accept the challenge, you are not only helping your Union, you are helping to secure your own and your family’s future. Stay in touch with your Union leadership. If you have a question about your contract, contact a Union steward. Stand up for your rights and the rights of your fellow Crewmembers at Atlas and Polar. We are all in this together. Support the IBT, Local 1224, TEC and your NC. You can count on us. We know we can count on you.

We will provide additional information and updates in the future.

Fraternally,



Capt. Stephen Richards Capt. Robert Kirchner
Co-Chair, TEC Co-Chair, TEC


Capt. Robert Ulrich Capt. Daniel Wells F/O Paul Kvernplassen
Chair, Negotiating Committee Negotiating Committee Negotiating Committee


Observe this was signed by all parties on both sides. As with all negotiations, there is always more than meets the eye; that's why it is never good to bring out specifics of individual portions of a contract without the whole. Simply because nothing is final until the entire TA is signed.

Leverage begins with unity. Both sides must be part of that process.