Flying holiday Western USA

[Dr Esteban]

Guys/gals,

I am planning a two or three week holiday flying across some of the Western states of the USA.
There is plenty of info on Pprune using the search function however a few questions remain.

- Any suggestions for a professional aircraft rental outfit based in California?
- What would be a comfortable/suitable yet forgiving aircraft? (bearing in mind 3 male pax + bags)
- Would you recommend an aircraft with a glass cockpit (for example G1000)? Is it easy to get used to if you fly jet aircraft with EFIS?
- Do most rental companies let you fly out of state?
- Is it sensible flying around/over the Rockies with limited previous mountain flying experience?
- How straightforward is the process of applying for a temporary FAA PPL? Is it still the same procedure as 2/3 years ago?
- When arriving on a small GA airfield how easy is it arranging transportation (car rental)?
- Would April/May be a good time to fly around the Western states?
- Is it easy to fly into some of the National Parks (Redwoods, Yosemite, Grand Canyon)?
- Any recommendations on must-see places?
- Is there any useful pilot guide available for this particular area?

Any info appreciated! Thank you in advance.

[englishal]

- Any suggestions for a professional aircraft rental outfit based in California?

www.angelcityflyers.com (http://www.angelcityflyers.com)or California Flight Center, Inc. (http://www.californiaflightcenter.com)

- What would be a comfortable/suitable yet forgiving aircraft? (bearing in mind 3 male pax + bags)

DA40GT or T182T

- Would you recommend an aircraft with a glass cockpit (for example G1000)? Is it easy to get used to if you fly jet aircraft with EFIS?

Yes if you have used Garmin products before. Also get Traffic info (TIS / TCAS). Most have this anyway.

- Do most rental companies let you fly out of state?

Yes

- Is it sensible flying around/over the Rockies with limited previous mountain flying experience?

No. Get some moutain flying in. You can be checked out by the above.

- How straightforward is the process of applying for a temporary FAA PPL? Is it still the same procedure as 2/3 years ago?

Yes

- When arriving on a small GA airfield how easy is it arranging transportation (car rental)?

Easy. This is the land of the car !;)

- Would April/May be a good time to fly around the Western states?

Are your IR'd? Maybe some June Gloom in California but should be ok.

- Is it easy to fly into some of the National Parks (Redwoods, Yosemite, Grand Canyon)?

You can certainly get close. Grand Canyon has an airport and you can fly over it at altitude.

- Any recommendations on must-see places?

Too many!!!

- Is there any useful pilot guide available for this particular area?

Pass.....

[Tolka]

As regards places to visit I would suggest Bryce Canyon National Park (Utah), Furnace Creek (Death Valley, California), Zion National Park (Utah), Arches National Park (Utah). Other than Arches, the rest have airports close by. You could fly over Arches and get to see the spectacular rock formations.

Tolka

[172driver]

englishal has pretty much covered it, just to add these guys (http://justiceaviation.com/index.php) at KSMO to the rental options. Great outfit :ok:

You should be OK re the 'June Gloom'.

In making your choice of a/c, bear in mind that some of the places you want to visit definitely fall into the 'hot n' high' category. Discus where you'd like to go with whoever you end up renting from and get their advice. They may insist on a bit of training at, say, Big Bear.

Three-up realistically nothing less than a C182 will do the job (unless you're all pro jockeys, of course!).

Pilot's guide: if you mean something along the lines of a guidebook, then no idea. For aviation info, the AF/D.

[AdamFrisch]

Many of the US rental aircraft are not covered for grass or dirt strips as these
are rarer here. Maybe you can get some extra insurance to cover that, but just be aware of it.

As a sidenote, the small grass fields I regularly plop down into in England, like Maypole and Damyns Hall for instance, are considered "bush" flying here and very seriously broached and treated by the powers-at-be. They're used to 8000ft tarmac in even the smallest of villages.

As I can only speak for California, I do think that it's a breathtaking state. You should def explore it. The Sierra Nevadas, Yosemite, Sequoia, Big Sur, Napa, Tahoe - all places that leave you speechless in beauty. I would recommend a landing at Shelter Cove airport on the coast:

AirNav: 0Q5 - Shelter Cove Airport (http://www.airnav.com/airport/0Q5)

[fernytickles]

For airport info, try FltPlan.com Flight Planning & Flight Tracking for General Aviation. (http://www.fltplan.com) or AirNav (http://www.airnav.com)

If you want to coincide (or avoid) your visits with fly-ins, try checking EAA - Aviation Calendar of Events (http://eaa.org/calendar/)

On a trip out west last year, we stopped in Sedona and also Santa Fe - both breathtaking and worth visiting.

[SkyHawk-N]

Remember that 'West Coast' means much more than just California and, being biased for just a second, the best West Coast flying is in a more northerly direction. :ok:

[Maoraigh1]

OP. "Is there any useful pilot guide available for this particular area?" FAA publications (VERY cheap)
http://naco.faa.gov/ecomp/Catalog.aspx?a=AERO+NOS+PUB+AFD (http://naco.faa.gov/ecomp/Catalog.aspx?a=AERO+NOS+PUB+AFD)
Link to photos of Utah from a rented PA28.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27183900@N04/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27183900@N04/)
I rented from Grand Junction Colorado. I'm going back next week. No problem with crossing State boundaries. I used only airfields approved by the FBO. All good tarmac. However the security situation may be very different from 2004, when I was last there.
There is a 2000 ft minimum over National Parks, and the arches look quite small. Upheaval Dome in adjacent Canyonlands is spectacular.

[AdamFrisch]

Santa Rosa looks good. Can't find it on the sectional though, so it must be for those with special permission.

[Dr Esteban]

Thank you everyone for all the information. Some great tips!

After looking at the various aircraft rental companies it seems that they
expect you to take out a minimum amount of hours/day when taking the
aircraft on a multi-day trip. Is this negotiable when taking the aircraft for
longer term, say 2-3 weeks?

Also, some of these companies mention a "renters insurance", is this
something I will need to arrange myself or will it be included in the hourly
rental price?

What can I expect when having to do a pre-rental check-flight? Would you
recommend a few hours flying with an instructor to get used to flying
Stateside? What are major differences when comparing JAA vs FAA? Is there
a way of preparing on forehand with differences in procedures?

How long would it take to get used to an aircraft equipped with Garmin
G1000? I understand some flying school have a special short groundschool
on this. Is it worth the hassle or should we stick to an old-fashioned steam
gauge Cessna? Does it help to have jet EFIS experience?

Would anyone have any recommendations on any good places to see in the
Pacific Northwest?

Sorry for the overload of questions! All help appreciated...

[172driver]

Thank you everyone for all the information. Some great tips!

After looking at the various aircraft rental companies it seems that they
expect you to take out a minimum amount of hours/day when taking the
aircraft on a multi-day trip. Is this negotiable when taking the aircraft for
longer term, say 2-3 weeks?

Not sure, but try your luck with various outfits. It also depends a lot (in my experience) on the type of a/c you rent. If you go for one of the popular trainers, then not likely, some of the more expensive/complex types which don't get rented out all that much, possible. Ask.

Also, some of these companies mention a "renters insurance", is this
something I will need to arrange myself or will it be included in the hourly
rental price?

No, this is something you will have to arrange. The two biggest outfits doing this are AOPA (US) and AVEMCO. You will need to provide a US mailing address in both cases (can be a friend's place). This can be done over the phone and cover is instantaneous. Discuss with the rental outfit what level of cover you need; this varies according to the hull insurance they have.

What can I expect when having to do a pre-rental check-flight? Would you
recommend a few hours flying with an instructor to get used to flying
Stateside? What are major differences when comparing JAA vs FAA? Is there
a way of preparing on forehand with differences in procedures?


Basically, a BFR and yes (especially if flying in highly congested airspace like L.A.) a couple of dual hours are probably a good idea. If you've never flown in the US, then I'd suggest buying a couple of US charts (get a sectional and a terminal area one) and the Guide to the Flight Review, an ASA publication and read up. Both are available from the usual suspects (pilot shops) in the UK.


How long would it take to get used to an aircraft equipped with Garmin
G1000? I understand some flying school have a special short groundschool
on this. Is it worth the hassle or should we stick to an old-fashioned steam
gauge Cessna? Does it help to have jet EFIS experience?


Alas, I'm somewhat lacking in both jet EFIS experience :p and G1000, so cannot really comment. From what I've heard from pilots transitioning from steam gauges to glass, the difference is significant. If you're used to Cessna steam, then I'd probably stick with it.

Would anyone have any recommendations on any good places to see in the
Pacific Northwest?


Pass, but watch the wx up there !

[Dr Esteban]

Is there an FAA equivalent of the UK CAP413 (Radiotelephony manual)?

[SkyHawk-N]

Dr Esteban, if you haven't flown in the USA before or haven't flown much in the USA make sure you read up on the rules and regulations before you come over, and get a good understanding on how to interpret sectionals and terminal charts. Also have time with an FAA instructor just to put it all into practice. I often witness terrible flying from foreign (non-US) pilots who have little understanding of the most basic of procedures especially in the pattern, for example the 45 entry, default pattern directions, CTAF use, etc.

[Dr Esteban]

Skyhawk,

Could you recommend any literature so I can prepare myself for these different procedures?

[SkyHawk-N]

Rod Machado's Private Pilot Handbook is quite an easy read, it's mainly for PPL students but could be quite a useful reference for a more experienced pilot.

The Pilot's Radio Communications Handbook (author Paul Illman) is a good RT guide. RT over here is pretty straight foward, but there are differencies that may confuse.

Read up on CTAF, AWOS, US Airspace Categories, MOA, TFRs (FAA TFRs (http://tfr.faa.gov)), Flight Following, 1-800-WXBRIEF, DUATS & DUAT, Skyvector.com, Airnav.com.

If you have any specific questions on specific situations let me know.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've not flown in that neck of the woods for a few years so my knowledge of rental companies is old and I won't share it.

But, if I was doing it again (which I will sooner or later :ok:) I think I'd be more likely to look to a base in Arizona than California - it'll open up more options, and you are a bit further from the joys of LA and it's smogs and crowded airspace. I did very well once renting from Prescot Love field in Arizona.

Also if it's not obvious, buy the local charts and airfield guide NOW, to get some serious thinking done early, don't wait until you get there. I'm pretty certain you can get them all from Transair or equivalents.

G

[StillStanding]

I had more problems understanding the local expressions etc. So put your anorak on and listen to some small fields here:

Listen to Live ATC (Air Traffic Control) Communications | LiveATC.net (http://www.liveatc.net/)

[Maoraigh1]

"Also if it's not obvious, buy the local charts and airfield guide NOW, to get some serious thinking done early, don't wait until you get there. I'm pretty certain you can get them all from Transair or equivalents."
Your FBO will insist you have up to date charts. The FAA dor ramp inspections. Charts are frequently (and regularly) updated. You could waste money buying early.
I'm at Denver FSDO on Monday, and will be trying to hire from Grand Junction afterwards. (U.S.License became invalid when CAA changed my no. on address change) I'll update on what happens.

[172driver]

You could waste money buying early.

What utter idiocy. The advice was for the OP to get charts to STUDY US airspace. Not a concept you will probably comprehend :ugh::ugh:

[Maoraigh1]

Got my US License revalidated this morning at Denver. Biggest problem was finding the FAA address.
Drove through to Grand Junction. Kempton no longer seem to be in the aviation business. The Visitor Centre gave me some phone nos. The first one I called, Colorado Flight Centre are giving me a BFR and check out tomorrow, starting at 0800 local, on a 180 hp C172. at $135/hr (Instructor extra) 4% off if I bulk buy and prepay for 20 hours.
There is $1000 excess if I damage the machine when solo, which is not much more than our group excess at home. I am automatically added to their insurance.
They do a mountain flying course, and do not allow landing above 7000' without it.
$50 per night, $3 extra per 24 hours wi-fi. Morning coffee. About 1/4 mile from Colorado Flight Centre. I had the outdoor pool to myself in the late afternoon, when I booked in.

[Oldpilot55]

Try skyvector.com for up to date charts.
SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts (http://skyvector.com/)
You can also buy all the US sectional charts on a CD for around $15, yes, the whole country on one CD for about the same as one CAA chart.

[Maoraigh1]

Thanks OP55. I've just been given a VERY thorough ground and flying BFR/Checkout. Checking out the Renters Insurance again.

[Maoraigh1]

"Are you saying you turned up with an FAA cert that had the restriction on the back stating "only valid when accompanied by UK license xxxxxxx" but that UK license number had changed to some other number and you were able to get the FSDO to accept that without having completed the Cert of Authenticity with the UK CAA?"
No. That concept was yours, not mine. Of course I had a letter from the FAA confirming they had got the CAA authentication.
The instructor was indeed $50 per hour.
Availability is excellent, with a 2.5 hour solo flight yesterday with no prebooking. Surprisingly no turbulence at all, despite the high temperatures, with good viz and no wind. The best conditions I've ever had in the area.

[Maoraigh1]

Getting familiar with these sites, in addition to the TFR one linked to earlier would be useful. I'm finding internet access very useful for planning away from the airport.
http://aviationweather.gov/adds/ (http://aviationweather.gov/adds/)
https://www.notams.jcs.mil/dinsQueryWeb/ (https://www.notams.jcs.mil/dinsQueryWeb/)

[Maoraigh1]

I spoke to the Aviemco guys at the Fly-in and Airshow at Denver today. They don't want to do renters insurance business with aliens who are on short visits.

[EK380]

Dr Estaban,

Last year we did a 10 day tour with a C172 starting near SFO, up North to Seattle and then coming back through the Sierras along all the volcanos.

My wife, PPL, has done most of the flying. I shot the photographs. An A340 captain myself but current in Singles.

I've blogged extensively on my photography site but seem to have a problem posting a direct link.
Please Go to my website,
Bjorn Moerman PHOTOGRAPHY-Dubai-United Arab Emirates | SmugMug (http://www.bjornmoerman.com)
Then to my blog (top right) > go to Archive on the right > SEP 2009 and OCT2009 for a detailed report on the trip. About 6 posts in total. We named it " Chasing the Volcanos"


PS: Done a similar trip from PHX up to Vegas and LA a few years before that.
Fly safe,
Bjorn

[I touch the sky]

Just returned from Montana on Aug 16th. Absolutely beautiful! Glasier National Park is a definit "Must See" Fly into Kalispel and rent a convertible for 2 days. Drive the "Going to the Sun" Road. Stay the night at Many Glasier Lodge for the night and drive back the next day. Make sure you switch drivers, scenery is too gorgeous to spend the time driving the whole time. The view is like being in your plane - your at altitude! The road closes at the end of September and re-opens sometime in May I believe.

www.sporty.com (http://www.sporty.com) has a Western US Pilot's Guide. I heard it was a good book - Covers Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Oregon, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, Washington State and Wyoming. Has descriptions of things to do in the area, accommodations, and airport pictures with helpful information, ie frequencies, hazards, services etc.

I believe there is a special Sectional from the FAA for the Grand Canyon. Check out their website to order. www.faa.gov (http://www.faa.gov)

Also, if your going in the June, July and August time frame, you will need to dress in layers! The temperature difference in the morning, afternoon and evening is often 30 or 40 degrees. Not unusual to have an 80 degree afternoon and a 45 degree evening and the next morning wake up to 35 degrees. Bring Binoculars, and buy Bear Repellent!

Check out the book "1000 places to see before you Die", it covers some great areas of the western US. You are going to have a blast!

[Maoraigh1]

I'm about to return to Europe. I found the Lockheed Martin Automated Flight Service very user friendly. It had no problem with recognition, despite my accent. I quickly got to a Briefer ( a very helpful human).
I didn't take an aircraft for more than one day, but could have.
Colorado Flight Centre offer a Mountain Flying Course, which is required if you wish to use airfields above 7000', and also a Back Country Flying Course, going into strips like Mineral Canyon. They also go up to the Idaho strips.
I'm quite happy using hard, long, runways, for scenic flying. I've put some videos on Youtube.
(I eventually overcame my fear of going airside without a yellow jacket);)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwNNrtfAS7I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwNNrtfAS7I)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZiMy7Dn8iU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZiMy7Dn8iU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UUQtD9YUpQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UUQtD9YUpQ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHBD6TKxMMw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHBD6TKxMMw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmmnogqeX1g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmmnogqeX1g)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frks0jU1kiM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frks0jU1kiM)

[IngoWolf]

I did my ppl in April/May in San Diego / California and found it often uncomfortable hot in the cockpit.
At that time of year I flew around in Colorado, Wyoming and South Dakota this year weather was changing day to day, mostly to bad for the Rockies but you can keep out of them when based in denver.
In California I flew comfortable in winter having a nightrating, made trips to nevada.
There was unflyable days at all places.