CAA Launch On-Line G Register Database

[barbox]

Just found this via a link from Flyer Mag web site.

It includes the following info (on ALL aircraft including GA);

1/ Owners name and FULL address details
2/ Hours Flown
3/ Serial Number
4/ Year Built
5/ MTOW
6/ CofA Expiry Date
7/ CofA Category
8/ Ownership Status
9/ Engine Type
10/Manufacturer
11/Class
12/First Reg Date
13/Previous Reg
14/It invites ANYONE to post a current photo of the aircraft!.

Did YOU know this was going to happen?, what are your thoughts?.

I am certainly not happy with this, too many things can happen, ANYONE can access this info and find out our home addresses, no doubt we will all now become bombarded with junk mail, have our homes broken into when when flying or harrassed by 'moaners' because you overflew their house at 2000ft and used 'bins' to get your reg.

Wonder if car reg no's will follow?, bloody well doubt it!.

Looks like there is no info provided for going ex-directory, what a liberty!.

http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/aircraftregister/ginfo.asp

[aviatrix]

I don't like this one little bit !
If people really searched they could always find your details from the registration. This is too easy though - what about the data protection act ???
I prefer to stay relatively anonomous. I do not relish the idea of attending a display or fly-in, to be greeted by 'strangers' in a familiar way. I shall have to go incognito http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[matspart3]

Hadn't thought about these aspects of it which are potentially worrying but in can be useful for tracking down naughty pilots who 'forget' to pay for their fuel, two weeks parking and 3 landing fees! It's always been possible to phone the CAA Registrations people for the same info though...I wonder if anybody's had any problems before?

[barbox]

matspart3,,,,,I am also a Radio Amateur and some years ago 'short wave listeners' were using the 'G' register of Radio Hams who were operating mobile (sometimes whilst driving throughout Europe) to break into homes whilst they knew there was a good chance no-one was home.

The Home Office who licenced Radio Amateurs in those days had no option but to offer an ex-directory option of stating 'Info Withheld at Licencees Request' and just printed the basic info of address such as 'West Yorkshire' and no name.

Exactly the same problem can arise with this new CAA register, unlike previous aviation G-Search Engines this one lists FULL home addresses of owners where applicable.

Therefore crooks with scanners can pick up who you are from radio call sign, and your destination, and probably guess how long you will be away from your home, a simple phone call and no answer means trouble.

Most people assume (wrongly?)Private Pilots are rich, therefore prime targets?.

[IanSeager]

I get the feeling that I may be in a minority here, but the information on the web has always been available (Minus the photo), you could telephone, buy the database on disk or search online via (I think) landings.com

[barbox]

IanSeager, suggest you check out both Landings and CAA sites.

The difference is VAST.

Only thing listed on Landings is basic info and JUST the name (no address) of owner and type of Aircraft.

CAA are posting every detail of the aircraft they have on their records, EVERY detail.

[IFollowRoads]

I too am distinctly worried about the potential repurcussions of this. :eeek: The junk mail I can handle (send back the pre-paid envelopes stuck to a brick) but its pretty obvious which planes are owned by individuals, companies or groups, and as has already been pointed out, the use of a scanner by anyone with a modicum of aviation knowledge could easily elicit large windows of opportunity ("G-XXXX cleared to far off destination via...") Previously I had only thought of those that might have watched the local airfield....
Didn't know the CAA gave this information out over the telephone, but I doubt someone with criminal intentions is going to write to the CAA asking for addresses

[This message has been edited by IFollowRoads (edited 15 May 2001).]

[IanSeager]

barbox - good point, thanks for that.

To play devils advocate for a second though...if a criminal is going to go to the trouble of buying a scanner and listening to the RT, why wouldn't they also have gone to the trouble of buying the database on disk? Or, if they had heard something on a weekday, just call up the CAA and ask for the full details of the first reg. off to Le Touq for lunch?

I can however understand the reluctance that many people have over G-INFO, I guess I've always considered the information to be in the public domain anyway, so when I saw it on the web I didn't feel that any of my details were being made public for the first time.

Ian

[New Bloke]

As an asside, there are many many celebs that own Aircraft. I would think that if you wanted (for whatever reason, but Jill Dando springs to mind) to find the address of your particular obsession, where better to start.

[Simon W]

I am shocked that they've done this. I do believe they're breaking the data protection act. Maybe they just haven't thought about that? I personally don't own an aircraft but I can understand your worries.

I think you're well within your rights to ask them to remove the address fields and any others that you feel are inappropriate.

Regards,

Simon

[dde0apb]

Unfortunately for those who don't like G-INFO being online, the CAA has a legal obligation to make the register publicly available, and are obliged to make available all the information that they have put there. This information has always been in the public domain, it's just that the G-INFO extends the delivery mechanism for this data.

In my professional life (my flying is - sadly - not for profit http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif ) I have done a considerable amount of work on the data protection act. An organisation does not have to ask a "data subject" for permission to disclose their data if they have an existing legal obligation to do so. The CAA did not therefore need to ask registered owners for permission to put up G-INFO. Arguably it would have been courteous!

Personally I would not worry about this generating large amounts of junk mail; your personal details are fully available elsewhere! Littlewoods for example buy copies of the electoral roll from Equifax ( www.equifax.co.uk (http://www.equifax.co.uk) ) or Experian ( www.experian.com (http://www.experian.com) ) and www.192.com (http://www.192.com) lists everyone they can unless you tell them you don't want them to.

So while it might have been surprising to find G-INFO on line, there is little you can do about it, and IMHO it's unlikely to produce much, if any, junk mail. If you want to disguise your home address you could always get a PO Box number which will cost around GBP50 per year and get the post office to deliver your PO Box mail to your house. Then move the registered address of the plane to the PO Box No.

[This message has been edited by dde0apb (edited 15 May 2001).]

[Rod1]

This info can also work the other way.

Some years ago I was negotiating with an agent to purchase a privately owned a/c. The negotiations were taking some very strange turns. I contacted the CAA, got the owners name and address. Gave him a call and discovered the agent was being very “economical with the truth”.

Result, the seller sold the plane and I saved several thousand pounds.

At the time I was surprised you could phone up and just get the information. I would not think posting it on the net would make a lot of difference?

[fen boy]

ddeOapb is spot on as far as I can see. I can confirm that the UK register of civil aircraft is a public register which the CAA has to make available. It is also, because of this, exempt from the data protection act. As far as people using it to track down celebrities I think that's a bit far fetched. Apart from the fact that most 'celebrities' will either have their aircraft registered abroad for tax reasons for the same purpose if they are registered in the UK they will definately be registered to Ltd companies.

This information has always been available this is just in a differnt format. As far as I can see the CAA can't win. Most of the time they get blamed for withholding info or charging for it. As soon as they make something available for free they get it in the neck for that as well.

By the way I'm sure no burglers had thought of it until you mentioned it here!!

[flickoff]

I smell a get rich quick scheme here. For a small fee I am happy for you all to register your aircraft at my office. I will bin the junk mail for you and you need not worry about the villains. Also, if you fly a bit low or make too much noise, for an additional fee, I will deny ever having heared of you.

[dde0apb]

Nice to be complimented by Fen Boy. Thanks. But some celebs have not been as circumspect as you might imagine. Try putting Cadenet or Edmonds or Mansell or our very own Lord Rotherwick into the owner field...... Nothing very exciting, but I can't think of any more aviating celebrities at the moment.

[HighWing]

Hmmm - acording to the register, one of the planes at my flying club had its CofA expire last year...

Best check the paperwork again before I next take to the skies.

I wonder what the legal position is if a grotty piece of paper says that the plane has a valid CofA, but the CAA database says otherwise...

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High </\>ing

[PaperTiger]

As a point of interest the US and Canadian registers (including RO addresses) have been in the public domain for decades. Paper originally and latterly of course via the web. Undoubtedly others too.
I don't know of any studies done with reference to their usefulness to criminals. If it was a big problem I would have expected the authorities in those countries, specially the US, to have pulled them long since.

[Lemoncake]

If the CAA are able to make this information available to the general public, I assume the DVLA could do the same with car reg numbers. Imagine the uproar that this would cause.

[dde0apb]

Lemoncake said "If the CAA are able to make this information available to the general public, I assume the DVLA could do the same with car reg numbers. Imagine the uproar that this would cause."

It all depends on whether or not DVLA has a legal obligation to make this data available to anyone who asks. The CAA does have this obligation so it makes it available.

[This message has been edited by dde0apb (edited 16 May 2001).]

[Zlin526]

Cant really blame those chaps in the Belgrano, the Air Reg details have been available for years, if you knew where to look i.e @ the CAA Registrations dept in Kingsway, London. Did some research some years back and had access to all aircraft registration details current or otherwise. Didnt meet any burglars while I was there...