Lancaster Rear Gunner

[headgardener]

I am trying to trace my wife,s uncle ,who was a rear gunner in a Lancaster, and was shot down over Holland. We understand that he and a colleague survived, and were captured, and became POW. The rest of the crew perished. After the war, he continued in service with RAF, and retired ? Air Commodore in 1970,s ,lived in Bexhill Sussex and died in the early 1980,s. He used to visit the war graves of his fallen comrades in Holland, and I would like to find out where this is. I only have a name Charles Broad, or possibly Charles Gaiger-Broad. I have just spoken to RAF disclosures at RAF Cranwell, who are sending forms to apply for personnel records. I understand I need the Squadron number, and then may be able to access Operational Records at Kew. Any advice or help gratefully received

[Old-Duffer]

Charles Gaiger-Broad CBE born 3 Oct 22 and commissioned 14 Nov 44

Can't find him in a list of POWs from Bomber Command, perhaps he was as 'evader' or was on 2 Gp flying some exotic US thing like a Boston.

Anyway, this should get you started.

O-D

[teeteringhead]

Got a CBE in 1971 as a Group Captain [see here: http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/45384/supplements/5963/page.pdf ] having previously got an MBE. No other apparent post-nominals.

[Edited to add:] I've got some old Air Force Lists in the office, I'll check them tomorrow. [might have known Old Duffer would be here too!;)]

[Old-Duffer]

Headgardener,

Ring 'Disclosures' again and with the info you now have, just ask them to peek at his record and tell you the squadron he was on when he was shot down, 'cause you know this nice old duffer who is bored out of his skull and who has promised to scour Chorley et al to satisfy you urgent curiosity for info.

Last time I met C G-B was in the mess at Rhein-D circa '77 and he was holding forth about the - shall we say 'politely' - the slightly shaky start the Jaguar was having in entry to service. G-B opined that the aircraft was the first RAF type to be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Years later and before Gulf War One, I was i/c the support organisation for this most wonderful of beasts and after the unpleasantness was over, I considered inviting G-B to come for lunch at HW so that I could boast that when the chips were down the old girl was a good'un. Unfortunately, by then it was too late.

[Archimedes]

Just to add to the picture - There is a reference to his promotion to Air Commodore in the Times 31 Dec 1974 (promotion effective from 1/1/75), where he is listed as being in the Secretarial Branch

He also gains a mention as presiding at the dining out of AM Sir Nigel Maynard (departing commander 2nd ATAF) which occurred at 2ATAF HQ on 12 Jan 1976; the notice is in the Times for 13 Jan 1976, alongside the obit for Dame Agatha Christie

There is another reference to presiding at a dining out night/ladies night held as ACM Sir Michael Beetham and Lady Beetham departed 2ATAF; that's in the Times for 07 Jul 1977

[Archimedes]

Possibly of more relevance - the LG entry in Feb '53 for his appointment to a permanent commission and transfer from GD Branch to Secretarial Branch - found here (http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/39784/supplements/1089)

And notification of his being granted a commission in the LG (dated 9 Feb 45) is here (http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/36935/supplements/869) This gives his service number as an NCO and (like the previous one) his service number as an officer.

Also, although I can find no reference to a Charles Gaiger-Broad being involved in a loss, there is a reference to a Combat Report by Flt Sgt CG Broad of 69 Squadron in the PRO here (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=7793838&queryType=1&resultcount=5). Out of curiosity, I've downloaded it. It doesn't say clearly whether Flt Sgt CG Broad is our man (i.e. no sign that 'Gaiger' has been treated as an initial, as seems to have happened quite often with double-barrelled surnames - whoever he was, he shot at a Ju88 which attempted to bother them, hence the combat report)

Now, this is all rather a long shot, but -

Flt Sgt Broad was a rear-gunner

He was flying aboard Wellington NC607 of 69 Sqn (a recce unit flying Wellington XIIIs and part of 2TAF) which was lost over Holland on 23 Jan 1945.

In the crash - four of his colleagues were killed, and he and F/O K G Booth (the pilot) survived to be taken prisoner. Unfortunately, it appears that neither Booth nor Broad appear on the RAF Commands list of PoWs.

The lost comardes were:

F/O John Turner
F/O George Hill
F/O John Lowrie
Sgt William Ranger

F/Os Turner, Hill and Lowrie are buried Here (http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=2105302&mode=1), and Sgt Ranger is buried here (http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=2004300&mode=1); both locations are in the Netherlands.

So there are a lot of coincidences here-

Matching name? Possibly (our biggest issue)

Matching role in aircraft? Yes (confirmed by combat report)

Shot down over Holland? Yes (confirmed by Shores, 2TAF, Vol 3, p.409 & a couple of online sources)

POW? Yes (confirmed from sources in last point)

One surviving fellow crew-member? Yes? (ditto)

Other colleagues KIA? Yes (ditto, also CWGC site confirms)

Colleagues buried in Holland? Yes (CWGC)

Snags - First: Not sure it's the same chap because of no certainty over the initials and possibly use of Gaiger as the second initial rather than part of the surname. Clearly a large, possibly fatal snag.

Second - Online sources have the two surviving crew from this crash as F/O Booth and F/Sgt Brand, not Broad. However, Shores has it as F/Sgt Broad, and since our CG Broad flew with F/O Booth (the Combat report makes this clear) on 69 Sqn, it seems likely that this might be an error in the online sources (not least since one says F/Sgt CG Brand)

Third - The Flt Sgt Broad is, of course, not commissioned. But as he was shot down and captured before Charles Gaiger Broad's commission was promulgated in the LG, was he promoted on the date given, or is that the date of his seniority?

Fourth - Not in a Lancaster but a Wellington.

Still, might this offer some lines of inquiry for you if you need to go off on a tangent Old Duffer/Teeteringhead?

[teeteringhead]

A little more from my incomplete collection of Air Force Lists - and I saved those from a skip!

He only appears in one - the Autumn 1972 list as a Secretarial Branch Gp Capt, with seniority of 1 Jul 68. he was then the 18th most senior officer in that Branch.

He is listed as Gp Capt C G Broad CBE AMBIM psc.

He is not in the 1974 Retired List, nor in the Active List of Autumn 1976, which might imply a retirement in '75 or '76 - with a DOB in 1922 that's about right.

[and I note that Old-Duffer was already a sqn ldr in 1976 - impressive!!]

[Old-Duffer]

Gaiger-Broad was promoted air cdre on 1 Jan 75 and retired on 3 Oct 77 (his 55th birthday no less).

I know he had been Director of Recruiting as Gp Capt but can't remember what his appointment was in Germany.

Yes, Teeteringhead, Old-Duffer was a sqn ldr then (think seniority was 1/1/76 iirc). Pay was £5103 per annum on appointment to acting paid rank (29/7/75) probably the pay of a sqn ldr per month now!!!??? Unfortunately and just because I was a complete incompetent, it was a long time before I troubled a further promotion board unduly!!

However, this thread is not about me - thank God - far too boring.

O-D

[headgardener]

Thank you so much. I have been away for 24 hrs hence the delay in replying. Very interested that you met Charles G-B in Rheindalen. I married his neice in 1972, and met him around that time. A colleague of mine had an RAF medical cadetship, and also met Charles in Germany as he was the medical officer on the base in the 1970,s ! His name is Dr Tim Morris, and I see him regularly. HG

[headgardener]

Archimedes, Thank you for your research and in put. I think you have our man,for it tallies well,with my wife,s memories of her Uncle. We were told that he survived the crash, with one other crew member who had a broken leg. It was winter,which confirms date,with snow on the ground. He dragged his colleague into nearby woods. Germans nearby heard the crash, and at daylight had no problems locating them ,due to tracks in the snow. Did you say you have confirmation of POW ? Any idea where he ended up , and what happened to F/O KG Booth? I think being a Wellington rear gunner would be fine [I,m afraid I assumed a Lancaster] I think there is enough here to suggest it is what I,m looking for, and next time in the Netherlands [my daughter lives in Brussels], I,ll try and visit the War Graves as Charles used to do. We remember him ,as a very jovial character, who could organise a good party?!!. Many Thanks again for all your imputs everyone Head Gardener

[Archimedes]

HG, glad that I might have been of some help.

The sources I have found say that he was a PoW, and since one of them is Christopher Shores, I have a very high degree of confidence that this will be correct. To be absolutely certain, though, some digging about in the PRO (sorry, National Archives) would be necessary.

That said, I should've thought that a record of where he was held captive could very well be with his personal records (I have heard, third or fourth hand of one case where it wasn't). If this is our chap, I believe that there is a 69 Squadron association, and if it is still active, it may be possible to find out what happened to F/O Booth via that route.

[headgardener]

I tried the 69 Squadron, but doesn,t appear to be active. I,m awaiting a copy of his Death Cert , so I can progress and get the service record. Thanks HG

[neel]

You can find another source on John Lowrie DFC, Peebles (http://john-lowrie.com)

I am planning to write an article about this crash
on Maasniel (http://www.maasniel.nl), maasniel is the little village where the plane crashed
if there is photographic material is available, please let me know

regards Dominique

[ron cox]

hello my name is ron cox from the Netherlands Roermond
every sunday i go metal detecting i found some items of the plain that crash there in kloosterhof maybe if you come and visit holland roermond
i can show you the crash site

regards

ron cox

my email
[email protected]

[headgardener]

Dear Neel / Dominique Thank you for this. Please refer to Archimedes research regarding the crash. I am researching my wife,s Uncle Charles Gaiger-Broad, who we think was Flt/Sgt CG Broad, and I,m currently waiting for his Service Record [having got his death certificate. He is listed as having flown with F/O KG Booth in combat action 3 dec 1944 ,BUT the Crew of NC 607 crashing in Jan 1945, lists a Flt/Sgt CG Brand [not Broad], so I,m not clear, though all the other evidence fits. I haven,t managed to check re POWs. If you have any more info I would be grateful Thanks HG

[headgardener]

Thank you, that would be interesting. I was coming over in early December to visit my Daughter in Brussels, and to visit Roermond ,but I have had to postpone until the Spring, when I also hope to have more evidence regarding my wife,s relative. I will be in touch Headgardener

[headgardener]

Archimedes, I,m still on the case trying to obtain Charles Gaiger-Broad,s service record. I have drawn a blank with POW,s do you have any tips. Also do you think trying to find out if Flt/Sgt CG Brand has a record etc would be possible? Any advice gratefully received Headgardener

[headgardener]

I have now spent some time in the National Archives, and have confirmed from the ORB of 69 Squadron, that Ft/Sgt CG Broad, was indeed one of the crew of the Wellington NC 607 which crashed on 23.1.1945 near Maasniel. He survived ,along with F/O KG Booth, the pilot, but his Four other Colleagues were lost. From his personal record he became a POW, but I can find no reference to where etc. Also in the ORB, there is no detail re cause of crash etc. As the survivors were eventually repatriated, would they have then given more details re the crash, and if so where would that account be held. I plan to visit the site,and War Graves in the spring, but wondered if anyone can,t help with the above queries. Many Thanks Headgardener

[headgardener]

Would you have any further details re the crash of Wellinton NC 607 on the 23.1.1945 near Massneil please Headgardener

[Icare9]

Hi HG, hope things are looking up now!!
Another aviation website had a query on this crash some years ago...
info on Wellington NC-607 69 Sqn. - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=4176)
and might be worth contacting the posters?
Also this on John Lowrie, a crew member, who had been a Mossie navigator...
140 Squadron (http://john-lowrie.com/140_squadron.html)
If you click on the 69 Squadron tab at the foot of the page, this additional info is available:-

Strategic Photographic Reconnaissance had been done by No. 140 Squadron from 1941 but it was decided that the requirements of the British Invasion Forces could not be met by just one squadron, especially in view of recent developments in night photography. A Photographic Reconnaissance Wing was formed which would work for the Headquarters of 21st Army Group, the Second Tactical Air Force and 34 Wing.

No 69 Squadron with Mk XIII Wellingtons became equipped for specialised night visual tactical reconnaissance and low-level photography and began their reconnaissance operations on the eve of D-Day. The Mk XIII had radar removed and clear Perspex nose fairing in place of turret for visual observation, flares in fuselage (dropped from 3000 ft) and open-shutter moving film camera fitted for use at 1000 ft. Aircraft flew singly and had to locate its target, sometimes as small as a crossroads or railway junction, at night.

Wellington NC607 was detailed to undertake a special night reconnaissance of the area Maasneil – Krüchten on the night of the 23rd January 1945 and F/O John Lowrie responded to the call for volunteers. The crew consisted of F/O K. G. Booth (Pilot), F/Sgt C. G. Broad, Sgt W . E. Ranger (Airgunner) and three Navigators F/O G. Hill, F/O J. W. Lowrie, and F/O J. K. Turner [one navigating, one making ground observations from the bomb-aimer’s panel and the other operating the camera].

January 1945 saw the defeat of the Ardennes counter-attack and the German forces now forced to defend their homeland. The Allies continued their advance into Germany, having to breach the Seigfried line of defensive positions and then cross the Rhine to reach the German heartland. The northern flank of Montgomery’s 21st Army Group on the 14th January began clearing the last German salient of the ‘Roer Triangle’ [Roermond, Sittard and Heinsberg], followed on 8th February by an attack through the Reichswald to outflank the Seigfried defence line in the north.

It may be speculated that the night reconnaissance on the 23rd January 1945, flying south from Maasneil (a district in the German-held Roermond) to Krütchen, covering some 200 km of snow-covered landscape, was to selectively monitor activities in this formidable line of Seigfried defence positions. The starting point at Massniel would likely have important photographic objectives in the heavily defended Roermond, a key point in the German effort to hold on to their last stronghold in Holland and delay the ultimate advance of the Allies into Germany.

A surviving member of the crew reported that having assessed their first observation run over the Maasneil area of Roermond was not as they required, they went round again at about 1000 feet despite the intensity of the ground fire and were brought down. Their action was typical of their generation: showing great valour and devotion to duty.

Unusually, as CWGC generally inter the crew together, Sgt Ranger is at Venray. Perhaps that indicates he may have survived the crash but died of wounds if there was a hospital near Venray. Perhaps an email to CWGC may provide an explanation?
The Mark XIII was a widely used variant for maritime reconnaissance, with 69 Squadron Code given as WI (but aircraft letter not known at this moment).
Hope that helps! (The Lund Army!)

[headgardener]

Many thanks for this info, it is slowly coming together. Headgardener

[soothlink]

Stationed with CGB at RAF Personnel Management Centre, Innsworth on January 23rd, 1973, I remember him reminiscing about the shooting down of his aircraft, 28 years earlier, when he was serving as a 'Tail End Charlie' F/Sgt. In 1973 he was serving in the rank of Group Captain and I believe his title was Inspector of Recruiting at that time.

He stated that... "At about this time (08.10 hrs) 28 years ago, I was being interogated by a big nasty German. We had been shot down and crash-landed near Roermond, in Holland. All of the crew were killed, except the Navigator and myself". So, it would appear that they were captured very soon after 'landing' - not surprisingly, as the area was heaving with Germans at the time.

As far as I recall, he said that one of the two survivors had suffered a broken nose and the other a broken finger. I don't think he mentioned either of them having broken a leg - as stated earlier - though memories do, of course, fade over time.

The last time I personally saw CGB was at JHQ Rheindahlen in 1977 (in civilian dress). I understood that he was serving in the rank of Air Commodore at that time.

I have often wondered what happened to Air Commodore Gaiger-Broad afterwards. Also about his earlier life and where he originally came from. I have some vague recollections of him telling us that he had joined the airforce as an aircraft fitter or mechanic [I think as an apprentice or boy entrant, or whatever appropriate title at the time]. The RAF were apparently offering instant promotion to Sgt to any of the lads willing to take on the extremely risky role of air gunners and this was his 'carrot'. I shall follow this thread with great interest and hope that someone will fill in the missing details.

[headgardener]

Dear soothlink, Thank you for your posting, and your info re this crash, which is very interesting. I have done quite a bit of research regarding my wife,s Uncle,CGB, and have his service record. I first met him in the early 70,s, and he attended our wedding in 1972. He was born in 1922 in Winchester and was a Boot Repairer. He enlisted in Jan 1941,aged 19, into the ranks, and trained as an Air Gunner ,and had a temporary commission in nov 1944 from Flt/Sgt to P/O confirmed in May 1945 [4 months after crash]. promotions 1948 Flt Lt, 1957 Sqn Ldr, 1963 Wg Cdr, 1971 CBE ,1972 Grp Capt, 1974 Air Commodore. He retired on his birthday 3.10.1977. At least one correspondent Old Duffer, remembers seeing him in the Mess at Rhein -D in 1977, and a friend of mine Dr Tim Morris ,was the medical officer there ,at that time, and saw him etc. After leaving the service he moved to Bexhill, Sussex , and was bursar of a special school for a while He died age 61 in july 1984. He used to visit the War Graves in Holland , of his crew, and I plan to do the same next spring, hence my research HG

[DavidKettlewell]

Headgardener,

It seems you have read 69Sqdn ORB by now and know that the spelling used by 69 Sqdn is Broad not Brand. Sgt Broad joined 69 Sqdn in May 1944. The ORB says that he was posted in from 52 Sqdn but there seems to be considerable confusion in the ORB, as to who came from where, when the Squadron was hastily reformed at Northolt and the ORB might be in error. (There are several known errors on this particular page of the ORB). F/Sgt C.G. Broad’s first op on 5-Jul-44 was with P/O L.H. Clark as skipper. He flew 3 ops with F/O Clark then a further 21 ops with F/O K.G Booth, one with W/O D.G. Venn, who was later killed, and one with the C/O, W/C M.J. Shaw. All other facts mentioned in this forum are correct except that John Lowrie was not with 69 Sqdn but a passenger from 140 Sqdn, a sister reconnaissance squadron in 34 Wing flying Mosquitos.

Stan Hayward, whom I have spoken to, was a pilot with 69 Sqdn who joined the Squadron at the same time as C.G. Broad. Both were sergeants in May 1944 and 45 years after the event F/Lt Stan Hayward remembered both F/O George Booth, whom he called the General, and Charlie Broad. Although Stan incorrectly remembered the date, when they failed to return, his recollection of what happened are; F/O Booth was hit in the tail by rockets from a Me163 losing rudder and elevator control. The aircraft crashed and all but The General and Charlie were killed. The General and Charlie went into the bag and were released at war’s end. The General was never heard of again but Charlie stayed in the Air Force eventually becoming Inspector of Recruiting 1967-71. Charlie retired an Air Commodore and died 18-July-1984. Stan and Charlie were the same age, both born in 1923.

I have no idea if Stan’s memory was correct in all details, or maybe confused with other events, and presumably he learned of the crash details some years later, perhaps at a Squadron reunion, in the 1950s. I am compiling data about 69 Sqdn and should you be able to confirm any of what Stan remembers, or any other information, I would like to hear from you please.

[AB64]

I've been luck enough to get hold of Mr Broad's log books, as mentioned above he arrived at 69 squadron from 52 squadron, at the time he was shot down he had 64 flights/197 hours on Operations - with 52 Squadron it had mostly been Anti-Submarine patrols in the Med. I've downloaded the combat report mentioned earlier and can post details from that if useful. I plan taking pictures of the logbook entries and when I do I will post a link to them. After the War he returned as a Gunnery Intructor for a bit - these flights are also recorded.

I'd be very interested to see a photo of Mr Broad and his crew if anyone has one.

David - do you have access to 69 Squadron ORB's? I'd be interested to see the relevent entries.

Thanks

Alistair

[DavidKettlewell]

Alistair,
Much of my copy of 69 Sqdn ORB is almost illegible. If you tell me specifically what you want I will transcribe some pages for you. I have the entry for Sgt. Broad's posting to 69 Sqdn in May 1944. He is listed as Sgt. but I suspect he was a Flt/Sgt at the time. I have all of his operations with crew names and aircraft serial numbers and the targets for each. The targets in the ORB do not always exactly match the entries in the individual logbooks so it would be nice to compare.
I do not know what C.G. Broad looked like in 1944 but I have a Squadron photo taken while the Squadron was based at Amiens (B-48). If he was not on leave at the time you might be able to pick him out.
Send me a private message with your email and I will scan the photo and send it to you.
David

[headgardener]

Many Thanks for this. It sounds pretty accurate to me. Do you know where Charles and the General were sent as POW? I can,t find any reference to it. I have his dob as 3.10.22 and death 16.7.1984. I spent 3 hrs in the Nat Archives going through the ORB,s of 69 squadron ,which make facinating readings. Also John Lowrie has an interesting memorial page compiled by an old friend [via Google], and through him ,learnt that Charles visited the parents of his comrade John Turner ,who died in the crash. Turners brother who is still alive ,remembers the incident. Any further info you have would be gratefully received. John Kerr [HG]

[headgardener]

Thank you also. I,d be very interested in the Log books if you are able to send a link, and also any photos. My wife might be able to help recognision I,m at [email protected] many thanks jk [HG]

[headgardener]

I,d also like to see the photo if possible. I,ll try to put my E mail address here,but I,m not sure it will be accepted? I,m not sure how to otherwise contact? I hope my wife may be able to help with recognision He enlisted in jan 1941, became a Flt Sgt in Jan 44 and Commissioned in Nov 1944 John Kerr [HG] [email protected]

[DavidKettlewell]

HG,

I will email the photo tomorrow. I will try to find the exact date the photo was taken. Then you can look at C.G Broad's logbook and find if he was flying at the time the Squadron was at B-48. An aircrewman's logbook lists all flights while the ORB lists only operational flights; so I cannot tell from the ORB where he was at the time. Then you will have some idea if he might be in the photo or not. I think the Squadron was ferrying a lot of petrol at the time. So he might have been on a ferry flight when the picture was taken. I will check my records and let you know.

You might be interested in the book, "War in the Air", a compilation of war stories written by Edward Smithies in 1990. Pages 275 to 291 recall the memories of an air gunner from 69 Sqdn (squadron not named in the book). He writes under the pseudonym of Will Tomlinson. His accounts seem somewhat embellished (I am not trying to disparage an obviously very brave man) but he does capture the essence of the Squadron and its extremely difficult missions during his time on the Squadron between Oct 1944 and April 1945. If you cannot find a copy in the library I will scan the pages and send them to you.

David

[AB64]

I've put scans from Mr Broads log book covering his training up to his being shot down in the following folder.

broad pictures by ab64 - Photobucket (http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m253/ab64/broad/)

I'll add his post War entries as a Gunnery Instructor - hopefully this is of some interest to those who have been following the thread.

Regards

Alistair

[DavidKettlewell]

Alistair,
Thank you for posting the logbooks of CG Broad showing his operations as an air-gunner with 52 and 69 Sqdns. Interesting to compare the the roles of both Squadrons from the long oversea reconnaissance sorties and escort duties over the Med for 52 with the short violent tactical nighttime reconnaissance ops of 69. This difference is noted in 69 Sqdn ORB for May 44 where the new training program for pilots, navigators and air-gunners was described as intense. Prior to becoming operational, the experienced and new pilots from 52 and OTU were given rigourous instrument and low level flying training and A Flt navigators sent to Cranfield for night vision courses. Such was the extent of training that 69 ORB states by July 44, 30 aircrew had been posted from the Sqdn and replaced "in order to fulfill operational requirements".
David

[headgardener]

To update, I have now visited the Venray and Roermond Cemeteries, and met several local historians. In particular Ron Cox, who took me to the crashsite ,where there is a small memorial,next to the farm where the plane came down. At the farm ,incredibly,I met Louis Cox [no relative] who is now 83, and remembers the night of the crash. The was a gun placement near the farm,and SS troops living in the Barn. The gun was reputed to be the one which brought the plane down in the early hours, and he remembers seeing the casualties, and says the tail of the plane was missing. it was minus 20C,and 2 ft snow. The Germans ordered him to bury the bodies in the field, but he persuaded them to allow him and a colleague to take the by horse and cart ,the 2km to the Cemetery, where they now rest. He doesn,t recall seeing the survivors,but pointed out the nearby wood where they were picked up. I have discovered that Charles Broad was detained in Stalag VI/J [capture card dated 24 Jan 1945] and then Stalag Luft XIII/D in feb 1945. Ron Cox thinks that the Pilot F/O Booth may have subsequently died of his injuries, but we have no proof.. Many thanks to everyone for their input, esp Joe Brown and his website comemorating John Lowrie and Ron Cox for his hospitality, It has been a very interesting exercise and a memorable visit John Kerr [headgardener]

[DavidKettlewell]

Headgardener, For all my years of studying 69 Sqdn I have never been able to locate a single gun that shot down one of their aircraft. It seems you have found one. F/O Booth’s aircraft NC607 took off from Melsbroek at 18:40 on 23-Jan-45 for recce of road from Maasniel to Krutchen. It failed to return (ref ORB). The flight duration would expect to last between 1 ½ to 2 ½ hours. Of the seven 69 Sqdn aircraft operating that night (all of which operated singly), NC509 (P/O Thorpe) saw an aircraft go down in the corridor sometime between 19:40 and 21:00. The observing aircraft was flying to or from Rheyde, Munchen Gladbach and might have been passing very close to Roermond; the aircraft seen going down might have been NC607. Another 69 Sqdn aircraft, NC608 (F/L Bartlett), after being picked up by a jet A/C, saw fire on the ground near Krutchen between 19:15 and 20:35.
I would be most grateful if you could locate the crashed aircraft, where the crew was picked up and gun for me please; perhaps Google maps or Lat & Long. Perhaps you also know the type or caliber of the gun and how many crew were manning it.
Additional questions to anyone please. Where is Krutchen (mentioned often in ORB)? Where was the “corridor”? referred to by P/O Thorpe.
Many thanks for any info.

[headgardener]

That the Plane was shot down by the gun is hearsay but it was close to the crash site If you can e mail me, I can send some photos and put you in touch with Ron Cox,who may be able to get some info from Louis. I,m [email protected] headgardener

[Icare9]

.... just a tiny post script
There doesn't appear to be any CWGC entry for a Booth from 69 Squadron, so hopefully he survived (at least past 31/12/1947!)