Checklists

[douglas.lindsay]

Well, I've reached the 4 month anniversary ofreceiving my wee brown wallet :} and I decided that this, coupled with the inevitable break for summer holidays, was a reasonable excuse to take a wee check flight with my old instructor - just to make sure I'm not turning the PPL into a "license to kill (myself)" just yet. Seems I'm not far off from where I should be (though it frightens me to think how far that is from actually being "experienced"... :ooh:)

Something I'm curious to ask everyone, though, is what personal checklists you've all adopted? Maybe some folks stick to the official ones and figure there's little sense in further reducing the time spent thinking about actually flying; maybe others have a handful of extra items they like to keep a wee eye on at different stages of the flight.

So...?

[A and C]

It is not so much what check list you use but how you use it. Is it a check list or a "do list"?

I see a lot of student pilots start the engine, set 1200 RPM and then fumble for the check list, open it up and start reading. They then run carefully down the list.......................... the only problem is the oil px rising within 30sec limitation has long gone before the check list is opened!

So why not do the vital things like oil px & starter relay from memory and then pick up the list and check that you have covered the items as well as the nif-naf & trivia?

[Big Pistons Forever]

Personally I am a big believer in flows. That is all the checklist flow in a logical order from one item to the next. Therefore the written list is used after the flow has been carried out in order to insure that nothing was missed and the written document is a true "checklist". For Cessna's I start at the fuel selector and go in a counter clockwise circle through the engine controls, circuit breakers, engine guages, radio stack, flight instruments, switch panel and back to the engine controls. This flow works for every phase of flight and the engine failure drill. However there are numerous opinions what is the right checklist for low time pilots. Most schools IMO have needlessly long checklsit full of trivial items and treat obvious items like letting go of the starter switch with the same importance as pilot killer items like making sure the trim is set for takeoff. Anyway rant over.

Some things to think about.

1) In your simple fixed pitch prop trainer/tourer, the only way to know the engine is making full power at the start of the takeoff roll, is to know what the minimum staic RPM limit is. Any RPM below this value at the start of the takeoff run should be grounds for an immediate reject. Contrary to the assertions of one PPL poster here, it is very difficult to "feel" a underperforming engine, but the static RPM check will give you hard information.

2) Be very carefull about letting yourself get head down reading checklists when you should be looking out the windshield. This is a particularly important around the airport (eg the prelanding check).

3) Regardless of what the checklist says leave your strobes and landing light on in airspace where there are likely lots of aircraft (ie around an airport and in the practice area) it makes you much more conspicuous particualarly on hazy days.

4) When you are settled down in cruise make a note of the exact position of all the engine guages. Engines or electrical systems that are starting to die will almost always give some warning. For example an engine starting to come apart inside will show a slow but steady increase in oil temp with a simultaneous loss of oil pressure. If all you are looking for is "in the green" you will miss these warning signs.

5) Carb ice is one of the leading causes of preventable engine failures. Carb heat should go on at the first sign of a reducing engine RPM and/or engine roughness

6) Almost all in flight emergencies do not require instant action and a slow methodical approach should be taken when going through any emergency checklist. Starting with asking the question, " am I sure I understand what is happening"

7) All system emergency checklists ( eg alternator failure) should have as the lat item on the checklist the page(s) number in the POH that overs the emergency. All modern POH's have considerable extra detail on how to handle an emergency in the POH over the simple list of actions on the emergency checklist.

[Rod1]

“personal checklists you've all adopted”

Zilch, burn them. Use vital actions and learn and understand why. I do not suggest that you can fly a 757 like that, but your average SEP, no problem. You will spend more time looking up, out of the cockpit than down at your knee board.

Rod1

[beerdrinker]

Douglas,
Yes, you do need to be able to fly the aircraft and look out without having to pick up and read the checklist for everything.

Use the Checklist as a QRH for Abnormal and Emergency situations.

But for everyday flying when on the move, here are three mnemonics that I have used on a number of aircraft for 40 plus years.

Pre Take OFF

TTMPFHAC
Trim... Set
Throttle Friction Nut.... Set
Mixture...Rich
Propellor...Fully Forward
Fuel Pumps and Tank..... On and correct tanks selected
Flaps..... As required
Hatches and Harness.... Locked and Secure
Altimeter.... Set
Controls.... Full & Free movement

Approaching Airfield

FEDRA
Fuel Pumps and Tank... On and correct tanks selected
Engine Instruments.... Check
DI.... Check and align
Radio Call.... Make
Altimeter..... Set

Downwind

BUMPFH
Brakes.... Off
Undercarriage.....Down Three Greens
Mixture... Rich
Props... Fully Forward
Fuel Pumps... On
Hatches and Harness... Locked and Secure

I know that not all aircraft have retractable gear or variable pitch props, and I no longer have a DI but I learnt these a long time ago and apply them to all light aircraft.

Enjoy your flying

BD

[douglas.lindsay]

Use vital actions and learn and understand why

That's what my instructor taught me, and great advice too. I've memorised the in-flight checks (and most of the other ones too, particularly the "oil pressure rise within 30 secs" stuff!) and rehearse them regularly (my poor wife is sick of them) - I guess my question was more "what sort of things do you all make a point of checking at different stages in flight?" :)

know what the minimum staic RPM limit is
in cruise make a note of the exact position of all the engine guages

Great suggestions - thanks! Any other ideas?

[Gertrude the Wombat]

For Cessna's I start at the fuel selector and go in a counter clockwise circle through the engine controls, circuit breakers, engine guages, radio stack, flight instruments, switch panel and back to the engine controls. This flow works for every phase of flight and the engine failure drill.
That's what I've worked out for myself for engine failure in a Cessna - glad to know I've got something right.

And it works, too, for real engine failures.

[AdamFrisch]

Yeah, I'm personally undecided about them.

On the one hand, everyone says the improve safety and are beneficial, so I use them. Also as I'm doing the FAA thing now, I have to use them in training - they're very very big on that.

On the other hand, it's seriously disruptive and even unsafe to use them many times. I mean, the US emergency list in the C172 goes on forever and they're adamant that you use it. This time would be better spent looking out the window and nailing your emergency landing, I'd say. But what do I know.

And the climb checklist is pretty silly. It gives you a speed and loads of other stuff that's pretty redundant (I don't have it in front of me, so can't quote). You normally know your Vx or Vy by heart.

A week ago I was back at Lydd and took the C152 up for a spin. For some reason my checklists had fallen out of my bag and I couldn't find them anywhere, but I flew anyway and lo and behold, I didn't crash or kill myself or anyone else. So checklist-less flight is possible:}:)

[Genghis the Engineer]

You spun the aeroplane without knowing where an object was in the cockpit? :ugh:


Checklists are important; having a particular form of them isn't. Personally I have a generic one I use for most flying - 2 sides of A5, plus a 3rd size of A5 covering the speeds and specific drills for that aeroplane. If you look in the official POH for many light aeroplanes, you'll find a very simple easy to use checklist - it's the flying schools who embroider and complicate them to make the flying instructors feel better about not having got that flying instructor's job.

Go and fly microlights, and you'll learn to memorise them as standard mnemonics (http://islandmicrolightclub.com/ptt/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9.0;attach=6), and they work really well. But ultimately, it's still a checklist (or action list if you prefer). Having done a lot of microlight flying, I must admit that I quite like these and sometimes use them in simpler light aeroplanes - they work very well (so long as you remember that choke off = mixture rich!)

G

[Big Pistons Forever]

That's what my instructor taught me, and great advice too. I've memorised the in-flight checks (and most of the other ones too, particularly the "oil pressure rise within 30 secs" stuff!) and rehearse them regularly (my poor wife is sick of them) - I guess my question was more "what sort of things do you all make a point of checking at different stages in flight?" :)
Great suggestions - thanks! Any other ideas?

The engine oil pressure rising is obviously a very important check but IMO an equally important check is to look at the ammeter. If the starter fails to disengage when the engine starts the starter will fight the engine and very expensive damamge will very quickly occur. This is called a "hung starter" and the first indication will be a massive electrical load. For the + 0 - type ammeters the needle will be buried at minus 60 amps and for aircraft with loadmeters (some Pipers) the needle will be hard to the right showing amximum load. I have never had an aircraft fail to show oil pressure on start but I have had a hung starter.

IMO flight schools often do not do a very good job of teaching how to do a good runup check. Some things to think about

1) Magneto Check: When checking the mags the difference in the mag drop between the the two mags is just as important as the maximum drop noted for each mag. A large difference in mag drop between the two mags indicates a problem with the ignition timing and should be investigated before further flight. The POH should have the limits for both maximum allowable drop and max difference allowed, which will always be considerably less (only 50 to 75 RPM). Similarly I have met many pilots that did not realise that no mag drop is actually bad as it indicates a fault of the magneto grounding circuit or mag switch and again is a reason to abort the flight

2) Mixture Control Check: Most pilots seem to just pull the mixture control out untill the engine dies and then shove the knob back in. This only proves the idle cut off works and does nothing to prove the mixture control can actually regualate the engine air/fuel ratio. It is also hard on the exhaust as the engine can backfire and blow out all the muffler baffles. A better way IMO is to start with full rich and apply carb heat for a period of 30 sec or so. The will RPM drop becasue the hot less dense air casues an excessively rich mixture. This proves the carb heat works and there is no ice buildup. Leaving the carb heat, lean the mixture slowly and note the RPM will slowly rise as the mixture is leaned from over rich to the best power mixture ratio. Continued leaning will cause the RPM to fall as the engine enters an over lean condition. This indisputably proves the mixture control is actually regulating the mixture and obviates the need to actually cut out the engine. Furhtermore if there is no significant rise in engine RPM when the engine is leaned with carb heat on this indicates the carburator has been set up much too lean and the aircraft should not be flown.


Finally I was so bold as to suggest on the instructor forum that I thought it ws a good idea to review the EFATO drills before every takeoff as part of the
pretakeoff check. I was thoughly beaten up by a few posters for this suggestion but I still think it is a good thing to do. I suggest readers review the "what happened to the EFATO thread" on the instructor forums (started 9 July) and make up their own mind.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Finally I was so bold as to suggest on the instructor forum that I thought it ws a good idea to review the EFATO (Engine Failure After Take-Off) drills before every takeoff as part of the
pretakeoff check. I was thoughly beaten up by a few posters for this suggestion but I still think it is a good thing to do. I suggest readers review the "what happened to the EFATO (Engine Failure After Take-Off) thread" on the instructor forums and make up their own mind.

When I was a young and impressionable flight test engineer at Boscombe Down, the RAF Test Pilots virtually always did this before every take-off.

The habit stuck, and I have done so in my own flying ever since.

Apart from the fact that it seems to get me in the right mental frame for a safe take-off, can anybody suggest a more able pilot model than an RAF Test Pilot, if looking for one to emulate in matters flight safety?

G

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Downwind

BUMPFH
Brakes.... Off
Undercarriage.....Down Three Greens
Mixture... Rich
Props... Fully Forward
Fuel Pumps... On
Hatches and Harness... Locked and Secure

Why would you do that?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

When doing a static run up check, remember that pointing into a strong wind in a fixed pitch prop airplane will give you a higher R.P.M. than in a zero wind condition.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Douglas,
Yes, you do need to be able to fly the aircraft and look out without having to pick up and read the checklist for everything.

Use the Checklist as a QRH for Abnormal and Emergency situations.

But for everyday flying when on the move, here are three mnemonics that I have used on a number of aircraft for 40 plus years.

Pre Take OFF

TTMPFHAC
Trim... Set
Throttle Friction Nut.... Set
Mixture...Rich
Propellor...Fully Forward
Fuel Pumps and Tank..... On and correct tanks selected
Flaps..... As required
Hatches and Harness.... Locked and Secure
Altimeter.... Set
Controls.... Full & Free movement

Approaching Airfield

FEDRA
Fuel Pumps and Tank... On and correct tanks selected
Engine Instruments.... Check
DI.... Check and align
Radio Call.... Make
Altimeter..... Set

Downwind

BUMPFH
Brakes.... Off
Undercarriage.....Down Three Greens
Mixture... Rich
Props... Fully Forward
Fuel Pumps... On
Hatches and Harness... Locked and Secure

I know that not all aircraft have retractable gear or variable pitch props, and I no longer have a DI but I learnt these a long time ago and apply them to all light aircraft.

Enjoy your flying

BD

I have never understood why the item highlighted in red is included in any prelanding check as it implies you routinely unfasten your seat belt and leave doors or hatches open in flight........

[dont overfil]

Make your own using the important parts of the manufactures checklist and adding the bits they missed out and use the flow technique as has already been mentioned so you can do most of it by memory then check the list.
One of my items not on any manufacturers list is "phone off" ( if you wish).
The C182RG I flew made no mention of UC selector down before master switch is switched on!
In fact hydraulic pressure is best checked before manouvering as if the weight is removed from the nosewheel it can retract itself if the AC has been laid up a while!
DO.

[rkgpilot]

Sorry to be a bit dumb, but a couple of questions:

In your simple fixed pitch prop trainer/tourer, the only way to know the engine is making full power at the start of the takeoff roll, is to know what the minimum staic RPM limit is. Any RPM below this value at the start of the takeoff run should be grounds for an immediate reject. Contrary to the assertions of one PPL poster here, it is very difficult to "feel" a underperforming engine, but the static RPM check will give you hard information.

What exactly does 'static RPM check' mean?Or 'minimum static RPM limit'? How do you do this check? Is it something I'm already doing, but under a different name?:confused:

Magneto Check: When checking the mags the difference in the mag drop between the the two mags is just as important as the maximum drop noted for each mag. A large difference in mag drop between the two mags indicates a problem with the ignition timing and should be investigated before further flight. The POH should have the limits for both maximum allowable drop and max difference allowed, which will always be considerably less (only 50 to 75 RPM). Similarly I have met many pilots that did not realise that no mag drop is actually bad as it indicates a fault of the magneto grounding circuit or mag switch and again is a reason to abort the flight

I do understand this, and always pay attention to this pre-take off. However, what about a mag check/dead cut check on shutting down?
I sometimes forget this and frankly, can't remember the difference between the dead cut and mag checks. :ugh:
Can somebody please explain this? I know it helps ensure that mags (and therefore props) are not left 'live', but I can't remember quite how this is so.

Thanks!

[Jan Olieslagers]

One silly detail that I added myself as it was not in any checklist I've ever been presented with: check seat adjustment. Forgetting this brought me some, err, less comfortable flights, and once one is in the air it is too late. This is of course relevant in planes flown by several pilots. I made it the last point of the walk-around, or the first point of the cockpit-checklist.
Almost as important is to have the seat adjusted for any pax.

[Pace]

There is an old understanding that you dont really know an aircraft before you can fly it without a checklist ie you could use the checklist to confirm you have done everything rather than using the checklist as some sort of fly by numbers handbook.

Of course you should use the checklist but if you make a mountain of it then you have to question how well you really know your aircraft.

Its good practice to learn to fly without a checklist! when you can do that then use the checklist ;)

Pace

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Hi cjboy, I would be pleased to answer your questions.

Chuck, years ago I was told that stage in the same mnemonic was really

Props - ready for go around

and perhaps that is fully forward in some aircraft POH.

A go around is no different than any other change of flight path such as starting a turn for instance.

If you make the decision to go around the prop/'s can be selected to go around R.P.M. before you apply climb power.

By selecting prop/'s to full RPM before starting the descent or during the descent you not only increase the noise level but you increase piston travel thus increasing wear on the engine for no identifiable advantage to the flight.


I expect there is an SOP covering prop RPM for a go around in a PBY, would you set the props in a certain way before landing ? I would love to fly such an interesting aircraft, I am jealous of you!

For a go around in the PBY we use the following.

(1) Mixtures Auto Rich.

(2) Props to climb R.P.M.

(3) Power to climb power.

During the approach to a landing I leave the props in cruise R.P.M. until the throttles are closed, at which time the pilot not flying pushes the prop levers to full forward.

The PBY is no different than any other piston engine airplane and I use the same method in all piston engine airplanes.

The PBY was one of the best money making airplanes for me and that is why I flew so many hours on them, I have more time on the DC3 than the PBY but the DC3 is no where as interesting a machine to fly.

In fact the DC3 is so easy to fly it is almost idiot proof. :):)

[Big Pistons Forever]

Sorry to be a bit dumb, but a couple of questions:

In your simple fixed pitch prop trainer/tourer, the only way to know the engine is making full power at the start of the takeoff roll, is to know what the minimum staic RPM limit is. Any RPM below this value at the start of the takeoff run should be grounds for an immediate reject. Contrary to the assertions of one PPL poster here, it is very difficult to "feel" a underperforming engine, but the static RPM check will give you hard information.

What exactly does 'static RPM check' mean?Or 'minimum static RPM limit'? How do you do this check? Is it something I'm already doing, but under a different name?:confused:

Magneto Check: When checking the mags the difference in the mag drop between the the two mags is just as important as the maximum drop noted for each mag. A large difference in mag drop between the two mags indicates a problem with the ignition timing and should be investigated before further flight. The POH should have the limits for both maximum allowable drop and max difference allowed, which will always be considerably less (only 50 to 75 RPM). Similarly I have met many pilots that did not realise that no mag drop is actually bad as it indicates a fault of the magneto grounding circuit or mag switch and again is a reason to abort the flight

I do understand this, and always pay attention to this pre-take off. However, what about a mag check/dead cut check on shutting down?
I sometimes forget this and frankly, can't remember the difference between the dead cut and mag checks. :ugh:
Can somebody please explain this? I know it helps ensure that mags (and therefore props) are not left 'live', but I can't remember quite how this is so.

Thanks!

To achieve the redline maximum RPM on an aircraft fitted with a fixed pitch prop the aircraft has to have significant forward motion (near flying speed). This is because relative airflow is needed to unload the prop. If the aircraft is stopped or only moving at very low speeds the full throttle RPM will be at a value significantly below the redline this is called the maximum static RPM. For the C172M , for example the redline RPM is 2700 but the static RPM range is 2300-2410 RPM (as per the POH normal operations section in the "power check" paragraph. The accptable static RPM will vary by airplane type and even in aircraft of the same model, as some aircraft have more than one pitch of prop approved. The significance of the static RPM is because at the start of the takeoff roll the only way to know if the engine is developing full power is to check for an indication of min static RPM on the RPM guage. I teach my student to slowly go to full throttle over about 3 seconds and as soon as the throttle is full in to check the RPM guage for static RPM and that oil pressure and oil temp are at the correct values. If there is any anomalies than a safe and easy low speed abort can be carried outtemp are at the correct values. I call this the "good engine check".

With respect to the Mag check. The runup check is to check for correct magneto oeration prior to flight. The "dead mag check" is to ensure that when the engine is shut down the mags are not still live. There are 2 ways to do this. One is to turn the mags to tehe off position and lsiten for the engine quiting and then quickly turning the mags back on. The disadvantage is if you are not quick enough the engine will backfire when the mags are switched on. The other method, which I prefer is, is to simply switch to each mag at about 1000 RPM. The drop as each cuts out is obvious and proves the mag is groundign out (ie turned off). The ignition key should also be given a tug as the key should not be removable with the left, right or both mag selected. The only way to remove the key in a properly operating mag switch is when the mags are in the off position.

[tmmorris]

Pace,

Interesting you should say that. I was picked up by PPRuNer A and C on a dual flight once for exactly that - he pointed out I was using the checklist as a 'do list' not as a check that I hadn't forgotten anything. He was right, too. I'm trying to wean myself off it - easier in a familiar type (e.g. today I was flying a DR400 for the first time in a while and I was a bit behind the checklist at times...)

Tim

[Genghis the Engineer]

Pace,

Interesting you should say that. I was picked up by PPRuNer A and C on a dual flight once for exactly that - he pointed out I was using the checklist as a 'do list' not as a check that I hadn't forgotten anything. He was right, too. I'm trying to wean myself off it - easier in a familiar type (e.g. today I was flying a DR400 for the first time in a while and I was a bit behind the checklist at times...)

Tim

It's an approach I suppose, but very often it's not just what you've done that matters, but the order in which it was done. Often a great deal of thought has gone into the order of actions - and if a checklist is used in this manner, rather than and order of execution, things can get damaged by doing things in the right order.

For a simplistic example, failing to check that the gear lever is down BEFORE turning the battery master switch is on.

G

[bingofuel]

A slight thread drift but having just read a thread in the military forum about someone distracted doing the walkround, it seems he was using a written checklist as an action list as he walked the aircraft.
I am curious how most people were taught to do a walkround, or opinions as to which is best and why

Is it:
1. Check each item on the written list as you go, one at a time.
2. Check say, the port wing, then review the checklist to see all items checked.
3. Look at the aircraft and do the walkround from memory, only using the checklist when in the seat.

Thanks

[IO540]

I find a lot of people use duff checklists.

Most of the off the shelf (pilot shop) checklists are OK in general but are no good for a specific plane.

Everyone flying a specific plane regularly should knock up a dedicated checklist, tailored for the particular avionics, etc. Usually this will involve building one up from extracts found in the POH supplements, etc.

[douglas.lindsay]

One last q then... though I've been through the POHs a couple of times I don't recall a simple checklist for this. If I were to suspect my engine power has dropped a little, or if I detected a bit of rough running, I'd go for carb heat first. What else would you suggest checking/doing?

The "fleet" I'm privileged to be able to use comprises C150/2, PA28 and AA5 - so nothing fancy!

[BackPacker]

If I were to suspect my engine power has dropped a little, or if I detected a bit of rough running, I'd go for carb heat first. What else would you suggest checking/doing?

If it's rough running and carb heat (or alternate air) doesn't clear it, you can also try running on just the left or right magneto. If it's one spark plug that's gone bad, you now have all minus one cylinders running on two spark plugs (good combustion) and one cylinder on one spark plug only (less than optimal combustion). By switching the whole magneto off to which the bad spark plug is connected you've created a symmetrical situation that will - hopefully - clear the rough running. It will give you a slight performance degradation though, plus you've just robbed yourself of a backup system. So it might be a good idea to land at the nearest suitable airport and get things sorted.

Another thing to check is whether you've leaned properly. Over-leaning can cause rough running as well.

Further, you might want to play with the throttle, fuel selector and the fuel pump a bit. There's not a lot of failure scenarios in this area that lead to rough running, but in your average spamcan, that's about all the engine controls you have, so there's not much else you can do in-flight.

[FlyingStone]

At least in C172 POH there is special section under Emergeny Procedures called Rough engine operation or loss of power - perhaps it's also in C150/2.

But basically, BackPacker covered the entire procedure. Just to remind you, if you will apply carb heat, the RPM will drop initially, even if carb is full of ice. The proper procedure is to apply carb heat and then wait 10-20 seconds and monitor for any rise in RPM which would be a sign of carb ice.

Also, descend from high-altitudes with mixture fully rich may cause engine roughness - most instructors teach fully rich at TOD, but that actually overcools the engine and the combustion isn't as clean as it would be with a leaner mixture. The way I was taught is to leave the mixture at TOD where it was during cruise, and moving the lever 0.5-1 cm to the rich every 1000 ft, untill reaching 2500-3000 ft, where mixture is set fully rich.

As BackPacker also said, you could try different throttle/mixture settings, which is actually recommended procedure by Cessna, if I remember correctly. And when/if you find the setting that gives you the least roughness, at that setting you fly to the nearest airfield.

[BackPacker]

Oh, and of course you need to remember that the aim is not to go to the nearest airfield ASAP, but to get there safely.

If the rough running disappears at, say, 50% power, and 50% power is enough to sustain flight, you'd better fly to the airport at 50% power with a smooth running engine, than at 100% power with a rough running engine.

This is a scenario that could be caused by a partial fuel line blockage, for instance due to a dirty filter. At 50% throttle the engine receives enough fuel so runs fine, but at 100% throttle fuel flow is too restricted, leading to a too-lean mixture. Not good.

[douglas.lindsay]

Brilliant, thanks all. I've picked up quite a few ideas from this thread. Safe flying all!

[Crankshaft]

Hi Guys!

I used to be a big fan of doing a static rpm check just before brake release on my previous aircraft (small engine on TBO extension vs short field).

I have now a new aircraft with CS prop. What can I do now as a check that the engine is producing full power?

At about half throttle I already have full RPM. And the MAP indication is merely an indication that the valve itself is wide open but doesn't say anything about the power produced.

[flyinkiwi]

Hi Guys!

I used to be a big fan of doing a static rpm check just before brake release on my previous aircraft (small engine on TBO extension vs short field).

I have now a new aircraft with CS prop. What can I do now as a check that the engine is producing full power?

At about half throttle I already have full RPM. And the MAP indication is merely an indication that the valve itself is wide open but doesn't say anything about the power produced.

I think it comes down to trusting that MAP is a fair indication of engine power. I check on the brakes to make sure that MP is increasing as I open the throttle, then again a few seconds later to make sure that MP is where it should be for the takeoff power setting and RPM has not decreased.

[Crankshaft]

Flyinkiwi... My whole point is that the MAP can NOT be relied upon as an indicator of power.
Lets say that we loose one magneto during T/O roll. The MAP would still indicate ambient pressure (if full Throttle and normal aspirated) and we would still have max rpm. But we would have less power and the prop would be in a finer pitch in order to maintain rpm. We would notice the power drop only when power has decreased to the value where rpm goes in full fine and not able to maintain rpm. Remember that MAP shows about 30" even with engine stopped!

[Big Pistons Forever]

Crank

The MP guage only indicates 30 in at sea level and on a standard day. You will see less MP (much less at high/hot airports) in other conditions, Therefore it is always a good idea to compare the field barometric indication (ie what the MP guage says when the engine is stopped) with what is showing on the MP guage when full power is achieved at the beginning of the takeoff roll.

However full power in an aircraft with a constant speed prop is only achieved at field baro MP (minus 1/2 in for induction losses) and redline RPM. If the engine has a dead mag it will not make full RPM in the takeoff roll because the prop remains on the mechanical fixed pitch stops in the full fine position untill about rotation speed.

[Cusco]

I use a checklist on our Arrow which was specifically created for that Arrow many years ago. Everything in it therefore is relevant :there are no gaps.

It is as specific to our Arrow as the wooden dipstick painstakingly created by slowly filling the fuel tanks by a group member .

I have therefore never 'learnt' the ground part of the checklist, but use the list every time before take off:

Needless to say however I have learnt the airborne checks and the emergency checks but am not averse to pulling the list out from time to time as 'revision'.

Our checklist also suggests putting c/s prop to fully fine as part of downwind checks: this leaves one fewer action to try and remember in the emotion of an unexpected go-around.

However 'prop to fully-fine' should not be undertaken till speed is reduced to circuit speed and then reduced slowly if only to avoid sudden change of engine note provoking dozens of pairs of anxious eyes to point skywards: something we have to avoid at all costs in our nimby-dense area of England.

Cusco

[Wessex Boy]

A slight thread drift but having just read a thread in the military forum about someone distracted doing the walkround, it seems he was using a written checklist as an action list as he walked the aircraft.
I am curious how most people were taught to do a walkround, or opinions as to which is best and why

Is it:
1. Check each item on the written list as you go, one at a time.
2. Check say, the port wing, then review the checklist to see all items checked.
3. Look at the aircraft and do the walkround from memory, only using the checklist when in the seat.


In the RAF we were shown the Walkaround on the Wessex, given the written checklist and told to learn it. We just then did the walkaround, looking at stuff as we came to it. There was a lot more climbing involved than the average spamcan and a lot more oily bits.....

I take the same approach with GA, most aircraft are the same, you just need to know the little extras a particular type has and what is 'normal' in terms of play on the wobbly bits.

I have re-worked the cockpit checks for my new groupoplane so that they flow from the floor in the centre out to the left-hand panel to make it easier for me to learn them and not to miss anything so that I can drop the physical checklist once I am used to flying it a bit more

[Big Pistons Forever]

In the RAF we were shown the Walkaround on the Wessex, given the written checklist and told to learn it. We just then did the walkaround, looking at stuff as we came to it. There was a lot more climbing involved than the average spamcan and a lot more oily bits.....

I take the same approach with GA, most aircraft are the same, you just need to know the little extras a particular type has and what is 'normal' in terms of play on the wobbly bits.

I have re-worked the cockpit checks for my new groupoplane so that they flow from the floor in the centre out to the left-hand panel to make it easier for me to learn them and not to miss anything so that I can drop the physical checklist once I am used to flying it a bit more

I do the same with all the aircraft I teach in. I am a huge believer in cockpit flows and IMO all normal and emergency checks should follow the same pattern around the cockpit. That way the physical layout provides the map for the actions and missing an item will be much more obvious than checklist where the actions jump all around the cockpit. After the flow the actions are "checked" with the checklist. I also believe in a preflight cockpit "geographic" check. I teach that the walkaround begins in the cockpit and starts with the standard flow with the aim to ensure all controls/switches/instruments are in their correct postions. This is especialy usefull in rental aircraft where you frequently find switches left on, engine controls pushed in or even the Mags left on :hmm:.

[Crankshaft]

Big Pistons,

If I hold the brakes in my aircraft and slowly increase the thottle, the redline rpm would be reached at a MP typically of about 25-26". When I increase the throttle further I imagine that the CSU increases the pitch. (Yet holding the brakes).
Therefore I imagine that a malfunction that only causes a slight power reduction could go un-noticed if I only confirm "full MP - redline rpm".

It was a long time since I flew any other CS prop aircraft so I have basicly nothing to compare with, but is it normal to achieve redline rpm at zero speed before the thottle is fully opened?

[SkyHawk-N]

Please guys no more 'Mixture - Rich' (even if it does say so in checklists and POHs). It should be something like 'Mixture - As required'. Try putting mixture to rich in high and hot places, which you may not do at the moment but may do in the future, and you could end up in trouble.

[Cusco]

Most outfits who rent a/c will insist on altitude checkouts to avoid just such disasters...........

[2high2fastagain]

To the original question...
I'd always recommend a checklist. I use a modified version of the Kirk Kenton 182Q checklist (see link). Its printed as a two sided A4 laminated sheet with normal stuff on one side and all the emergency stuff on the other.

Free Cessna 182RG Skylane Checklists to Download (http://www.freechecklists.net/Resources/Cessna/182RG+Skylane/)

Two good reasons I use them are:

1. I do forget things rather more than I would like to admit.
2. When carrying passengers in the front seat, I give them a copy of the checklist and ask them to follow me through as we go through the checks. I hope it conveys a degree of professionalism.

And the third of two is that I've got all the emergency stuff to hand....after all, if you do get a fire in the wing

[Big Pistons Forever]

2high

I am curious about the preflight item in the cockpit section of the checklist you referenced.

Fuel guages -------- off

Why ?

I also note the mixture control is not tested on the runup. I always lean with carb heat on at runup RPM. You should see a rise as the overrich mixture caused by the carb heat is leaned back to best power and then a drop as the mixture goes too lean when you continue to slowly pull the mixture knob out. A very usefull check that the carb is working correctly

[SkyHawk-N]

I also note the mixture control is not tested on the runup. I always lean with carb heat on at runup RPM. You should see a rise as the overrich mixture caused by the carb heat is leaned back to best power and then a drop as the mixture goes too lean when you continue to slowly pull the mixture knob out. A very usefull check that the carb is working correctly

Seems strange to me, I always set the best power mixture before I do my power checks, at higher altitudes you have to lean before you start taxying otherwise your engine may cut. Checklist actions may need to bend depending on what environment you are flying in, especially relating to the setting of the mixture, just following checklists parrot fashion is not a very good thing to do.

[2high2fastagain]

BPF - Oops, got to be careful not to mislead you. I used that checklist as a basis for style not content. It's the format I use. The content on mine is pure Cessna POH for my aircraft normal and emergency procedures with some additions for the toys I have on board.

1. I didn't understand the gauges item either. My list has a dip check in the walkaround and a check of what the EDM700 thinks is in the tank.

2. Carb heat - I also check carb heat on runup. Essential I agree.

3. Don't disagree with Skyhawk on the parrot checklisting concerns either. One should never the disengage the brain!