NPPL SSEA Class Rating in France.

[BEagle]

Those of you you who might wish to fly to France using a NPPL with SSEA Class Rating may now do so provided that the additional requirements stated at NPPL Fees (http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/flying_to_France.php) are met.

Note that this agreement only applies to NPPL holders and does not currently apply to pilots operating under the exemptions of ORS 4 No.756.

[N.HEALD]

It should be noted that according to the NPPL website; amongst other things you require a class 2 medical as the NPPL GPs declaration is not valid for the French, so in effect this new bit of good news for NPPL holders is actually about as much use as a concrete parachute unless you are one of the very few NPPL holders with a Class 2 medical.

[Rod1]

More info here;

Flying to France on a NPPL (http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/2010/LAA%20Home%20Page/Flying_in_France_NPPL.html)

Rod1

[BEagle]

RTFM!! The medical requirement is for an ICAO class 2 medical, not the gold-plated JAA Class 2!

[Miroku]

Beagle,

I hold an NPPL and currently fly under my GP's declaration as I suspect do 99% of NPPL holders. Could you explain how to obtain this new medical and how does it differ from the standard class 2?

[BEagle]

Sorry, you'll have to ask an AME. Or perhaps contact the LAA as they have been working on the 'ICAO equivalance' certificate.

[Miroku]

The situation becomes more and more confused. I've spoken to two AMEs today and neither of them was familiar with the ICAO class 2 medical.

I then spoke to the LAA and was told that only French AMEs could do these at the moment but they hoped that they could find a UK based one in the near future!

I also looked on the ICAO website but could find no details on their class 2 medical.

If anyone can find out any further information I'd be very interested. At the moment however, it seems a dead duck!

[stevelup]

I thought the UK CAA Class 2 medical exceeded the ICAO requirements?

Therefore, all you need is a UK Class 2 if you can't sort the French one out - and any UK AME will be able to do that for you.

[Miroku]

The whole point of the NPPL (IMO) is that it is for pilots who can't get a class 2 medical.

Therefore to say that an NPPL holder can fly to France with a class 2 medical is a bit like saying that any PPL holder can fly in IMC (provided they have an IR).

[stevelup]

It's not the only point of the NPPL, it's but one of several points of the NPPL surely?

I'm sure the LAA will start clearing this up soon and a list of UK based AME's who can do the necessary will appear...

Does anyone know what the exact differences are between the UK Class 2 and the ICAO standard?

[N.HEALD]

Beagle, the point is that as I and others have said "most" NPPL holders have a GP's declaration NPPL medical, not a class 2 ICAO, JAA or otherwise, the point i was making is that NPPLs have to get a new medical just to use their NPPL in France, most got their NPPL on the basis of a simpler less expensive medical. So not a case of not RTFM'ing the new rules, just pointing out the downside that unless NPPL holders want to go to the expense / inconvenience of get a new medical the new rules are not much use to "most" NPPL Holders.

[patowalker]

I think it is useful. Many microlight pilots upgraded to NPPL SSEA, because it was much cheaper than a JAR PPL. On their microlight licence they could fly in most EU countries, but now found themselves restricted to the UK. With an ICAO medical, that restriction has now been lifted on arguably the most desirable flying destination in Europe and it is hoped that similar arrangements can be made with other countries.

We should welcome this, as it shows that two JAA civil aviation authorities are willing to go ex-JAR.

[bern444]

So - just to clarify...

If I have a Eurostar regiistered as a microlight, and a microlight NPPL, I can fly to France with a GP chit, but if I have a Eurostar registered as a VLA with an NPPL SSEA, I need an ICAO medical, whatever that constitutes. Is that correct?

B

[patowalker]

That is correct.

[Miroku]

I think bern has summed up the stupidity of the whole subject beautifully.
In effect, no change at all!

I think I'll lie down now:ugh:

[BEagle]

If you feel so strongly, then write to the DGAC. Not the CAA, LAA or NPLG.

The NPPL Medical Declaration is valid only in UK, IoM and CI airspace, not France. But the French have agreed that the ICAO Class 2 medical will be sufficient.

There will always be aircraft which nudge the boundary between Microlight and SSEA / SEP Classes - and there's not much that can be done about that. Some 'Microlights' now bear very little resemblance to the original concept of a Microlight - so it's fortunate for many that the regulatory requirements haven't been hardened accordingly.

[Miroku]

Yes, OK Beagle I take your point.

The fact remains however that in order for an NPPL to fly in France a new medical is required and at the moment I can't find anyone who even knows what an ICAO medical consists of. I would guess however that as 'most' NPPLs have chosen this licence because, like myself, they don't qualify for a JAA class 2 medical they are equally unlikely to pass an ICAO one.

Therefore I can't see this initiative from the LAA getting us much further forwards as regards NPPLs flying to France.

As regards writing to the DGAC, I don't think my letter would have a great deal of effect! Especially in August!

[sammypilot]

Frankly there is nothing dafter than the situation of the NPPL so far as it relates to Ireland. You can happily fly to the six Counties, no problem. Slide over the border then you are unlicensed. This is a matter which simply needs the CAA getting together with their Irish counterparts and reaching an agreement.

[Maoraigh1]

Is a US FAA class 3 a basic ICAO medical? (Available from some medics in th UK)

[patowalker]

No. These are the differences with ICAO:

6.4 A Third Class Medical Certificate is required when exercising the
privileges of a private pilot.
6.4.1.2 The interval between two medical fitness reports is up to 37 months
less one day for private pilots. ( for under 40s)
6.4.2.22 Pregnancy does not prohibit the issue of a medical certificate.
6.4.3.3 A requirement that a spare set of corrective lenses be readily
available when exercising the privileges of the licence is not established.
6.4.3.4 The demonstration of compliance with the visual requirements to be
made with only one pair of corrective lenses is not required.

The French will not accept it, even though I offered to have a medical every year, not get pregnant, carry an extra pair of specs and wear varifocals to the examination.:)

[microlightgary]

This thread's been dormant for a while but is of relevance to me as I'll shortly be changing from flying a microlight to a Group A machine.
Did anyone get to the bottom of what an ICAO Class 2 medical actually involves? I've spent a while trawling the Net but can't find it written down anywhere.

[Frelon]

My local GP in France is an AME and conducted my Class II medical last year, which (subsequently) was not accepted by the CAA as it was not JAR compliant. They had previously accepted my French Class II medical (the older ones were stamped "In accordance with JAA standards".

I questioned my GP about these differences and he knew nothing as to why there was a difference, he still carried out the same checks that he had done before. I think it is down to DGAC in France calling the shots!

The main difference seems to be the 40€ I paid my GP and what I would have to pay a UK based AME upwards of £150!!

[patowalker]

This really is a joke.

"French Class 2 and German Class 2 medical certificates cannot be used to validate a UK issued National or JAR pilot's licence and pilots with one of these medical certificates should ensure that they obtain a mutually recognised medical certificate at the time of their next medical examination."

The French accept our NPPL SSEA with their Class 2 medical in France, but we do not accept our NPPL SSEA with a French medical here. (The French do accept a UK Class 2 medical.)