Microlights and primary radar

[FlyingStone]

Hi!

Since I fly quite a lot in an uncontrolled airspace (with FIS service) and the number of microlights/ultralights without transponder is increasing I was wondering how good do they see on PSR? I imagine that their primary response must be weaker than one from "conventional" metal aircraft and since many of them doesn't even care to maintain two-way radio with FIS (it's "annoying"), I'm sometimes really concerned whether FIS even has the capabilities to give us proper traffic information?

Also, any response on strength of primary response from modern light composite aircraft (DA20, DA40) would be highly appreciated.

[samotnik]

1. There are many SSR without PSR.
2. Even if there's a PSR, its range and effectivness is usually low. Remember that PSR systems have some sort of technology to identify non-moving echo. Depending on its effectiveness sometimes aircraft echos are treated as non-moving and removed from the screen.
3. Sometimes there are false primary blips
4. ATCo/FISo is unable to provide you with proper traffic information if the only thing he knows is that there is a primary blip somewhere and he has no r/t contact with the aircraft. He knows nothing about the altitute, type, speed... That's why flying IFR in anything below class D is in my opinion a bad idea.

[chevvron]

Some composites notably Cirrus types do not show up very well on some primary radars.
As for microlights, it depends if the radar is fitted with an 'adaptive' MTI system which not only cancels out static things like trees, hills and buildings but is set to cancel out everything below a certain groundspeed as well. If your microlight groundspeed is less than the threshold speed, (typically 50kt but can vary according to local requirements) it will not show up at all. Of course all microlights carry a large lump of metal (commonly referred to as an engine) so they will show up on 'raw' (uncancelled) primary radar.

[BrATCO]

Often, FISos don't even have a radar screen to look at : system/operator's certifications are too expensive to get/maintain for a service that's meant to be cheap.

The information service mainly (only ?) relies upon pilots' good will to communicate.

[DFC]

I'm sometimes really concerned whether FIS even has the capabilities to give us proper traffic information?



Flying in Class G airspace relies one one single principle to avoid collisions - see and be seen. That means pilots see the other aircraft and apply the rules of the air applicable to avoiding collisions.

FIS will always have the capability to provide you with Flight Information;

Ask them for the weather at destination and they will tell you.

Ask them about sigmets and they will tell you.

Ask them about navigation aids going U/S and they will tell you.

Ask them about a host of other pieces of information that comes under the heading of "Flight Information Service" and they will tell you the answer.

However, they are not required to provide you as a VFR flight with traffic information even on the VFR traffic they know about and if they do there is a high probability that the information they provide is not 100% accurate because the VFR flight that reported routing A to Z may without telling anyone decide to route via X and Y and that is their right.

If every VFR flight in Class G called the FIS frequency with every detail and change to their flight and the FIS provided traffic information to every other VFR flight that had a posibility of conflict then when I want to get the latest weather for my destination and alternate I would have no chance of getting a call in.

Finally as for listening out for other traffic - You could come on frequency, hear nothing and then after 30 minutes leave the frequency. The fact that 10 minutes before you called 20 other aircraft reported operating in your area and 10 minutes after you leave they all report leaving the area will not be noticed by you unless you look out the window.



That's why flying IFR in anything below class D is in my opinion a bad idea.


Provided that VFR flights obey the law and remain in VMC then flying IFR in class E is no problem. If in cloud then one is safe becuase only IFR flights can be in cloud. If in VMC then you will still be separated from the IFR ones but keep a good lookout for the VFRs.

Class F and G is where you would have a point especially with the number of people who operate in class G claim to be a VFR flight when they are in IMC at some stage.

[Talkdownman]

they are not required to provide you as a VFR flight with traffic information
....except in the case of UK Aerodrome ATCOS and FISOs operating within UK Rule 45 ATZs. CAP774 Chapter 2 Page 2 refers.

In order to comply with the Rules of the Air Regulations 2007 (as amended) with regard to flight within an ATZ, specific and, where appropriate, updated traffic information will be provided to aircraft receiving Aerodrome Air Traffic Services.

....but keep looking out of that window, humans are involved....

[veloo maniam]

Hi all, what could be the possible reason/reasons for an A320 at F350 not appearing in the radar screens except for a couple of seconds (only a target was seen). Then for the next 30 mins its not seen at all. Radar systems (both PSR/SSR) were functioning well. All other aircraft were identified. Thanks for replies.:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Presumably the aircraft transponder was not working?

[BrATCO]

I had once a FA50 on my screen followed by a military plane.
The soldiers on the ground didn't know anything about the "following" traffic and they were ready to send a fighter to check, when we figured out that the Falcon hadn't switched his "second box" off...
Took us at least 3 or 4 minutes to understand that.

So, now I know I can ask a pilot to try his "second box" when it seems the first one doesn't work well.

In your case, it could also be a digit mistake while recycling. If the new code is wrong, then there could be a "code hiding" process (a filter for some special codes) in the radar's software.