Flying for Garuda

[trlof]

Hi all,

I'm seriously considering to join Garuda Indonesia on a one year contract as an F/O on the Boeing 737-800. It seems like an interesting and enjoyable experience if I can get the time off from my employer.

However, I can hardly get an idea what the working atmosphere in the cockpit will be like, and I read on this site horrible stories about authoritarian captains who feel like they are God, terrified to loose face being the norm, to dudes who have the time of their lives!

I seriously want to get an idea what it will be like to share a workspace as a western f/o with a local captain with a local airline... before I sign a one year contract.

Who can give me any insights from Asia, Indonesia, Garuda?

Negative as well as positive experiences would be greatly appreciated! :ok:

Thanks guys!

[menikos]

Hi,

did you receive any news regarding the position ?

:ok:

[TopTup]

trlof,

Do a minimal amount of research on Garuda, and not just pprune. There is a reason the likes of them were banned from entering Europe and the US. Do you think some paperwork to ICAO can hide the real truth?

If you do opt to go then be under no illusion that you asked for the treatment and circumstances you will find yourself in.

Why am I so "bitter"? Because I made that mistake at Air India. I thought safety, professionalism and integrity were universal in (international) aviation. I was so unbelievably wrong. Garuda, as I understand it, are not too different. Rewind the clock to arrogant and omniscient cultures and training departments with a hatred of "standards" whereby it may undermine their scams and delusions of grandeur.

There is a reason why such airlines are regarded by the wider "professional" world as not worth touching. And, on top of that, you will have that scar on your CV for the rest of your life. Trust me, I know. Stick with what you know. If you want an adventure, go fly a float plane in the Maldives. It's GA, but those standards are almost expected and part of the package.

[menikos]

Do you have a personnal experience with GA ?

:ok:

[Moretimeoff]

Rishworth does not list the salaries for the Garuda jobs. Does any one know the saleries?

[Meathead Pilot]

Parc is recruiting for garuda as well... At the moment, garuda is the best airline in indonesia to work for.. They are pretty serious about what they do and have stringent hiring standards..:}

On top of that, brand new airplanes and competent crew...

[jetjockey696]

Guys dont worry if they dont like...or you cause them problems. This is one way of getting rid of you.... :E


"A pilot for national airline Garuda Indonesia went on trial Tuesday May 2004 over the alleged murder of a prominent human rights activist who was poisoned last year on a flight to Amsterdam. An Indonesian court has sentenced an off-duty airline pilot to 14 years' jail for murdering a rights activist.
The court said Pollycarpus Priyanto poisoned a glass of orange juice served to Munir Thalib during a flight to Amsterdam two years ago".:ok:

[jetjockey696]

Ok not gods... but aleast Indonesian astronauts aleast.



Sidney Morning Herald (22nd Oct 2007)

The chief pilot of a plane that crashed in Indonesia, killing five Australians and 16 others, ignored 15 alarm bells as the plane came in to land too quickly, a report has found.

The Boeing 737 exploded into flames in a rice field after skidding off the end of the runway in Yogyakarta, Central Java, on March 7.

Investigators have scoured the plane's black box cockpit voice recorder and data log for clues to the disaster.

The final report stemming from the crash investigation found the pilot had landed, despite a flood of warnings.

"During the approach, the Ground Proximity Warning System (GPWS) alerts and warnings sounded 15 times, and the co-pilot called for the pilot in command to go around," the report found.

"The aircraft was flown at an excessive air speed and steep flight path angle during the approach and landing, resulting in an unstabilised approach.

"The pilot in command did not follow company procedures that required him to fly a stabilised approach, and he did not abort the landing and go around when the approach was not stabilised.

"His attention was fixated or channelised on landing the aircraft on the runway and he either did not hear, or disregarded the GPWS alerts, and warnings, and calls from the co-pilot to go around."

The investigation also found the co-pilot did not follow company procedures and take control of the plane when he saw the pilot repeatedly ignore the alerts and warnings.

Garuda records also showed no evidence that the pilots had been trained to respond appropriately to the warnings.

The investigation also found Yogyakarta Airport's fire fighting service was unable to reach the accident site and some vehicles lacked necessary equipment.

"The delay in extinguishing the fire, and the lack of appropriate fire suppressant agents, may have significantly reduced survivability," the report said.

"The airport emergency plan and its implementation were less than effective."

National Transport Safety Committee chairman Tatang Kurniadi said the report was aimed a preventing further accidents, and was not to be used as the basis for any legal action over the March crash.

Kurniadi said the committee would not hand over any evidence gained from the plane's flight recorders, to help the police investigation.

Police are continuing to investigate the crash and have interviewed the pilots, who survived by scrambling out of the cockpit.

"I would like to go back to the objective of this, the report was made by NTSC for safety purposes only, not for blaming," he said.

"If any institution wants to ... follow up that accident, that's their own decision."

He said the committee's report could not be used for legal purposes.

"The report contained the results from the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder, but according to international regulations on aviation these black boxes are not allowed to be used for ... liability purposes," Kurniadi said.

"We will not give police or any institution [information] other than for safety purposes only - it's in international regulations and we want to follow those regulations."

[BlueVolta]

Unfortunatelly this kind of accidents is just waiting to happen again in Indonesia.
A lot of behaviour problems from the indonesian pilots... :ugh:
SOP, MEL, TCAS or EGPWS warnings they just disreguard them :eek:
If they have an high incident/accident rate and are/were on blacklists it is not without reason.

[on the glide]

Guys,

It's good to collect all data concerning your application,but some of the "Top Gun" guys pass incorrect information mixed up with the politics.

Not trying to hide nor deffends any company/nations but see for yourself is there any flag carrier doesn't have any failure and they're trying so hard to keep up their standard too,like yours!

be a positive dude!

:D

[AlvinZane]

Toni contacted me about Garuda and ask if I was interested. I love Indoland and would love to return.

She said 80 hrs / $7500 Capt EFIS -300 with 4 star and trans 2 months/2weeks sched.:ok:

Not the best expat gig, but given CGK it's a lot of money. I've been paid more, but came home with less. When I worked Indo things were fairly cheap.

Garuda has cleaned up their act more than any other Indo carrier. It's just the culture there. Learn it and you can work with it. You just have to keep an eye out for the people that are suppose to be supporting you and are not. :mad: No different than a lot of other expat gigs.:=

No yelling and screaming...won't help.:ugh: Learn to play with their rules and smile a lot.:O Works really well.:D

[Mack Tuck]

It is irrelevant whether other Indonesian or Garuda pilots appreciate or accept foreign contract pilots; they are necessary and required. Garuda is not alone in the region of being an airline with an appalling safety record. The population is such that it could man its airline internally but it has been deemed fit to employ foreign pilots. The advertised contracts of 12 months will probably be extended; the alternative is another catastrophe.

[menikos]

Anyone invited for a screening, if yes when & where ?

:ok:

[trlof]

I got invitations now from Rishworth and Parc, and an e-mail from Aeroprofessional which I suspect concerns the same position.

@ Moretimeoff: Pay is US$ 5.200 for B737NG F/O and US$ 5.000 for B737PG F/O.

@ menikos: I don't have any personal experience with Garuda. I'm in the process of getting in and will post my experience here.

[menikos]

Thank you trlof, what is your experience my friend and when are you suppose to attend the screening.

Hope for the best :ok:

[Helicopter doctor]

From todays newspaper....

Garuda Indonesia seeking foreign pilots

The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Tue, 08/24/2010 9:00 PM | Business A (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:increaseFontSize%28%29;) | A (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:normalFontSize%28%29;) | A (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:decreaseFontSize%28%29;) |


State-owned airline Garuda Indonesia is seeking 70 international pilots to develop its training program. The search will last until end of this year.
“The foreign pilots will be brought to Indonesia to help us train new pilot candidates. Hopefully the new pilots will be able operate our aircraft by next year,” operational director Ari Sapari said Tuesday, as quoted by kompas.com.
Indonesia’s aviation industry is faced with a shortage of pilots because of an increase in available aircraft.
The government has issued policies to help the industry grow, including allowing recruitment of foreign pilots and extending the pilot retirement age to 60.
Garuda had 670 pilots and co-pilots in 2009. This year the company is expecting 851 pilots and co-pilots to operate its 67 airplanes.

[menikos]

Any news with the assessment ?

:ok:

[A37575]

Learn to play with their rules and smile a lot. Works really well.

That is probably the advice given to the Garuda F/O when his 737 landed fast and long and killed lost of people at Yogyakarta.

[Cheap Fuel]

"That is probably the advice given to the Garuda F/O when his 737 landed fast and long and killed lost of people at Yogyakarta." A37575

I really do quite enjoy the arrogance of you Aussie pilots. It's a shame you guys aren't able to stick together over there.

By the way, thanks for addressing all the issues of this accident. I am sure your comment will go far in educating and improving air safety in Indonesia.

CF.

[menikos]

Heart that Garuda is beginning the assessment, any news for those who have been invited ?

Thx :ok:

[menikos]

up !!!!!!!!!!!!

[fahrenheit95]

Yogyakarta accident, Capt as PF when it happened.:=

[trlof]

Hi all,

Just got back from Singapore and Jakarta for the assessment. Impression of the company is pretty good. Some things were not organized as well as we are used to in the west (confusion about pick-up times, a representative of the company waiting for us behind passport control while we were in transit) but nothing serious.

Assessment in Singapore was pretty straightforward. They were not out to break you. Visual approach, non-precision approach, precision approach, two engines, one engine, nothing you couldn't handle. What they want to see is whether you can keep the airplane in the air, and your crm skills. Pretty much like an OPC. We received the approach charts the day before.

A Garuda captain occupied the left seat as pilot monitoring with the examiner in the back. Both seemed very professional and safety-minded indeed. Nice persons to share a cockpit with for several hours too.

Next transfer to Jakarta for medical examination. Next time I'll be sure to bring some sportswear as we had to run the threadmill while they made an e.c.g. We also visited a tailor at the Garuda HQ to fit a uniform.

Flights and ground transportation all well taken care of. Outstanding hotels.

At the end of the day a positive experience and a good first impression of the company!

[PK-KAR]

Ok not gods... but aleast Indonesian astronauts aleast.
AirIndia express at Mangalore anyone? Oh hang on, that one doesn't count because both crew died...

With Garuda, as long as you're not scheduled to fly with the megalomaniac seniority madness" type... you'd do fine! (as long as you can determine which is which...)

[jetjockey696]

HAHA.... very true... I heard there is a lot of these megalomaniac seniority madness type..:E the young and old capt.... never heard of the word "CRM" or any other word from the FO. Good luck to the expats..:p

I expect the expats will say "I will never accept that from a Capt, I will speak up and complain" to who... you will get a get response.."sorry, that how it is here, put up with it or leave" that why we are hiring... WELCOME HELL....

It will never change... it a mindset they have (always remember they are astronauts) but now anyone can be a astronaut too.. :ok:

Remember it only a 1yr contract... Good Luck all and happy hunting... :ok:

[menikos]

Trlof,

did you meet other pilots or you were alone.

It seems that you are positif about the company hope you'll get the job.

Thx :ok:

[PK-KAR]

I heard there is a lot of these megalomaniac seniority madness type.. the young and old capt.... never heard of the word "CRM" or any other word from the FO. Good luck to the expats..
The days of those types are numbered, even in Garuda... so, whilst these exist within Garuda, in these days, not everyone inside is like that. The change has started, and rather than branding Garuda as consisting solely of those types, better give support the the CRM types. :} We don't want to go back to those days now do we?

[kotakota]

You need a system for copilots to request NOT to fly with a certain captain ( even Emirates do this apparently - Captains NOT allowed to do same ) and then do what my old airline did back in the 80s/90s .Once a skipper had 3 copilots blackball him , remedial action was taken . Worked a charm !

[fahrenheit95]

kotakota,
I cant agree more!!:D

trolf,
You'll do just fine. The atmosphere has never been as good. Good luck!

[capt kickback]

Does anyone have any further info on the Medical and sim profile for the Garuda screening that is currently ongoing in SIN & JKT....anything appreciated.....cheers CK....

[menikos]

Any news about those who went for the assessment, it seems that they are stil advertising.

Do we have to understand that not so many people are interested by the offer with GA ?

:ok:

[trlof]

Well communication has been slow for a while but I just received news that I will start soon, second half of October! :ok:

[menikos]

Good news, I guess you are with Parc ?

Are you all going to begin by mid october or just the first group and did you receive your contract ?

[trlof]

I guess you are with Parc ? Are you all going to begin by mid october or just the first group and did you receive your contract ?

That's right, I don't know about the other candidates, and I expect to receive my contract very soon! :cool:

[menikos]

It seems that the contract has been released ?

[Damianik]

I have been contacted by Garuda directly, in response of my application few weeks ago. I am a 737NG FO. I wished Parc contacted me but garuda was quicker, any comments on it?
Should i go to Parc and make them take me under their wing or stick to the garuda direct process i started?
i didnt send the documents yet so i may have a choice.

[jetjockey696]

I guess Garuda will contact a lot of people.. direct hire, than let people go through PARC, Rishworth etc... It cheaper this way. than giving you approx 5k usd a month etc... work three month and two weeks off, I guess the Garuda pilot union wont be too happy about this arrangement.

[trlof]

Hi all,

Thought it'd be time for an update on my experience with this company.

I have been flying for 1,5 week now and I must say that my overall impression is good to very good. Most of my colleagues so far are very good people to work with, who take safety, crm, sop's, rules and procedures very seriously indeed. So far I have not witnessed any corner bending. If you politely point out a mistake to your captain he will more likely thank you for it. The last thing anyone wants is another Yogyakarta accident or being banned from Europe again.

It's still another country though where things don't go the way we are used to in the west, which is why it took so long before I started flying. Only after I got to Indonesia HRM realised that I in fact need a working visa to work here. You guessed it, you can't get those in Indonesia. So off I went to Singapore to get one. It turned out I needed a license verification too, which took nearly two weeks to obtain. Then I got three days notice to study Indonesian air law and do an exam at the DGCA (Indonesian CAA) office.

Flying in Indonesia is great fun and the airports and ATC service are generally pretty good. Most airports have a runway of at least 2.200 meters and very often 2.500 meters or more, and an ILS. CGK (Jakarta) is busier than I expected. ATC can be a little hard to understand every once in a while but you get used to it.

The city of Jakarta is not the most interesting city to live in but there are enough things to see and do. Accommodation provided by the company is excellent.

As a contractor, you will be eligible to extend your contract one year at a time for a maximum of five years. There are no fleet upgrades. The company is desperate for pilots though, so they are trying to get an approval from the union and the government to change that. If this will be the case in the future, I reckon it will be a reasonable career option.

Overall I am very happy that I took the time off from my company in Holland to do this and have a great experience. I was very concerned about working with an Indonesian company and Indonesian captains as a copilot from the west, but all has turned out very well.

I get many questions from colleagues by pm which I am happy to answer. Consider asking them in this thread though, so others can read them too. However, I spend a lot of time on the road nowadays and I don't always bring my laptop along.

Cheers,

Timon

[uchy]

Hi can I ask you how is it one typical roster pattern? the hotel where they let you stay in Jakarta is far from the airport?

[trlof]

For the last couple of weeks I have had five flying days, one day off and one day standby (either 0000-1200 or 1200-2400) every week. Haven't been called out of standby yet. But we are set to work six days a week so it may just as well be six flying days.

Remember that including travel time to and from the airport, and signing in 1,5 hour before departure, your day will be gone completely if you are flying. Also on layovers you will do nothing but fly, eat, sleep and travel to and from the airport on a working day... six days a week.

The accommodation is very good and quite luxurious. The apartment is roomy with one bedroom. Breakfast (not great but okay) and laundry (five pieces a day) are provided. (yes a pair of socks is considered one piece)

Jakarta doesn't have a well-defined central district but the location is well connected and close to the well known places and shopping malls. Travel to the airport is provided by the company and takes half an hour in the early morning, longer during the day, especially around peak time.

Early morning flight can depart as early as 5:40 am. Pick-up is 3 hours before departure so this can mean leaving the house at 2:40. It is the only time when traffic is smooth in this town, but it can be a nightmare during the day!

I get my schedules only a few days in advance every week, so planning is next to impossible.

Flying is great fun in Indonesia and as with any other company, you will work with colleagues of all shapes and sizes.

[Stimp]

Thanks trolf!
It's good to hear from someone who's actually flying for an Indonesian airline.

I was wondering if you've been in contact with ex-Lionair-Eaglejet P2F pilots? The rumour is that after (or even before) finishing their 12 month contract, they succeed in securing a job at Garuda air.
Could you confirm this?

Have you got any news on the current financial/employment situation at Lionair and Batavia air?

I've been looking to kick-start my aviation career, and since I feel I have no time to waste, the P2F programs look very appealing to me.
I know, I'd rather not, but it I don't think I have the luxury of waiting until thinks improve. (If they ever will in Europe?)

Regards

[trlof]

What's P2F? Pay to Fly or something?

There's one guy here who was with Lionair before. He got into Garuda but he told me that Lionair now makes it difficult for expat pilots to leave for Garuda. Otherwise there will be nobody left to fly the Lionair planes. I don't know the exact story on how they do it, but your employer has to sponsor you to get a working visa. Even if you already have one for a different company. So to prevent your employees from leaving is simply a matter of bribing the right people at the immigration department.

I don't have any info on the financial situation at any airline.

We can start a lengthy discussion about paying to work, but ultimately it's a difficult decision that you have to make yourself, and there are reasons to do it and reasons not to do it.

Good luck!

Timon

[Shaman]

Trlof,

Thank you for sharing accurate information with us -I am glad you are enjoying yourself - Indonesia is a fascinating country...........

You made reference to working 6 days a week. How many days a (calendar?) month do you get off each month?.

[trlof]

You made reference to working 6 days a week. How many days a (calendar?) month do you get off each month?.

I get one day off a week, so 4 or 5 each month.

Here's the deal: pilots employed by Garuda get two days off each week. Contract pilots get one day off, and after three months work, we get two weeks off. In essence you save one day every week to get time off after three months.

Keep in mind though that employees get vacation time on top of their weekly days off, and contract pilots do not.

[Shaman]

Trlof,

Thank you for a quick factual reply. If I was not planning on taking my wife with me it would not be an issue.

[menikos]

Any news ?:ok:

[pltemrah]

hello people,
So i tihnk of moving to Indo for Garuda and apply for FO post in 737 NG
But here is the thing I know about Indonesia a little as my borther lived there for some time.
The question is;
Do they have an opportunity like it is in KAL ( 11 days off each month for you to travel around or go to your home base)
This is the main thing for me so if you please help me about it i'd love to hear

And i think the salary is around 5000$. Do they give you free tickets once in a while?
I hope I come there to share the atm there but first of all i need to know this off day thing
thanks

[Flying_phoenix]

Garuda from what I hear pretty good these days!

Should be joining Sky Team and are off EU Blacklist......

So on their 'A Game' at the moment....

Although, as history shows.....have had their fair share of problems!!

[foyrnc]

Dont be fooled by by the media hype.

GIA is not for the faint hearted and you should give it some serious thought.

Jakarta is absolutely no place to bring a family.

My advice, look for something closer to home.