DA20 (Katana) and DA40 (Diamondstar)

[DiamondC]

I did my PPL in a DA40 (G1000) in the US and I'm now looking to do some flying in the UK - just in daytime for fun and to keep my skills current. I'm looking at both the DA40 (which I really liked flying) and also saw that some schools have a DA20 which I'm thinking might be similar but less expensive.

Has anyone flown both the DA20 and DA40, and how do they compare?

[Explore]

I did my PPL in the Katana, and then the checkout on the DA40 CS, and its really no problem learning the 40 afterwards. Did it in 3 hours or something I think. The other way around should be the same way.

Is there rentals of the DA40 G1000 in the UK?

[AutothrustBlue]

I flew both. I have far more time in the DiamondStar than the Katana/Eclipse/whatever-it-is-this-week.

First, I'm pretty tall. DA-20 was somewhat uncomfortable. This isn't a consideration for many people, but it IS a consideration for me.

My big gripe about the -20 is I don't like flying a non-IFR capable airplane. We get marine layer pretty frequently here and not being able to fly in the clouds is a considerable limitation. The DA20 cannot be operated IFR (in the United States) due to its inability to survive a lightning strike (I think). If memory serves usable load is "not much". That said, it is a rather nice little airplane for just grinding around at very low cost. I forget precisely what it is, but the stall speed is ridiculously low on both airplanes - do NOT carry extra speed on final or you will float forever.

The -40, on the other hand, is the nicest single engine (training) airplane I've flown. It is very comfortable and most of them in the States are G1000-fitted. Same horsepower as the 172, but faster. If I had my druthers (whatever that means) I'd much rather fly a -40, owing to having a constant speed prop, more equipment, more horsepower and more capabilities.

[The500man]

Is there rentals of the DA40 G1000 in the UK?


Yes. Here:

Private Hire Aircraft - Flying Time Aviation FTO Shoreham (http://flyingtime.co.uk/w/Private_Hire_Aircraft)

[DiamondC]

Thanks All!
Autothrustblue - I'm quite short and not instrument rated so the DA-20 wouldn't be an issue for those reasons. I really like the DA40 but flying in the UK is quite expensive so best I analyse my numbers before concluding that's what I will be flying here too. Out of interest, what's your favourite single-engine to fly (training or not)?
Explore - Yes, there are some G1000 DA-40s but the only ones I've found are the ones The500man mentioned at Shoreham. I'll be there in a few weeks for an airshow so will check out Flying Time then.

[AutothrustBlue]

Autothrustblue - I'm quite short and not instrument rated so the DA-20 wouldn't be an issue for those reasons. I really like the DA40 but flying in the UK is quite expensive so best I analyse my numbers before concluding that's what I will be flying here too.
Ah, then you don't have the same gripes that I do - enjoy your Katana/Eclipse/whatever it is this week ride :cool:

Out of interest, what's your favourite single-engine to fly (training or not)?
If I were forced to choose, I'd say the TBM 700 or 850...but that's not affordable, at all... :eek: As far as airplanes I can actually afford to operate that only have one engine, I've had good experiences with turbocharged and normally aspirated 182s...the Mooney M20 is also a nice machine.

I am ambivalent towards Cirrus.

[B2N2]

A little history:
The DA 20 started life as the Hoffmann HK36 Dimona motor glider
http://www.icfn.net/bluesky/air1/4X-GMD%20-%20HOFFMANN%20HK36R%20SUPER%20DIMONA.jpg

Available in several different versions up to the 125 HP Super Dimona which was also used for ultralight tow and light glider tows.

The DA 20 A-1 Katana is the Very Light Aircraft or VLA version of a motor glider with a nosewheel
Standard class motor gliders have a wingspan of 45 feet or 15 meters.
This was cut to 30 feet or 10 meters for the Katana.
Engine was a hybrid liquid cooled/ air cooled 80 HP Rotax.
Reasonable performance but nothing stellar.

There was briefly a B version of which I know very little.
The DA 20 C-1 Eclipse looks almost identical to the Katana but is a totally different animal.
The 125 HP fuel injected Continental makes is (relatively speaking) a rocket ship compared to the Katana/C150/C152/Tomahawk.
I fly it in Florida from a sealevel airport and if I'm flying solo I cruise climb at 105 IAS with a rate of climb of 600-700 fpm, sometimes higher if it is cool.
This means you climb at the cruisespeed of an older model 172.
It seems ridiculous but it has virtually the same rate of climb at Vy as it does at Vy + 30 knots.
It will cruise at 130+ TAS all day long. If you pull the power back to 2100 rpm (redline 2800 rpm) it flies at a TAS of 100 Knots all day at a fuel burn of 4 gallons/hr.
I've flown them at 11,500 and on one occasion had a 195 knot GS thanks to a 60 knot tailwind :ok: at 4 gallons/hr.
Of course you'll never get these spectacular TAS numbers in Europa-land if you're stuck below 1500'.

The DA 20 series can not be IFR certified in the USA at least since it lacks pitot heat, alternate static and the required lightning protection.
So they are day/night VFR Very Light Aircraft.

If I was in the market for a light two seater "runaround" it would be #1 on my list. 400+ lbs usefull load remaining with full fuel.Personally I would go for the MT composite prop (+6 knots) and a simple autopilot integrated in the turn coordinator.

Downsides to this little rocket ship:

It doesn't ride turbulence very well, it will rattle your teeth
It needs a moveable cowl flap or something since it has a tendency to run hot on the ground and too cool in the air at cruise.
That Continental IO-240 is a b:mad:tch in a hot start if you do not follow the hot start procedure to the letter

Oh and Vno and Vne could be a little higher :E

[FlyingStone]

I fly one with MT-Propeller supplement and it does 125 KIAS at 75% power any day, anywhere (Vno 118 KIAS though) :ok: And the best part is that climb performance isn't very much different from Sensenich's prop, around 800-900 fpm at MTOW (Vy+5). :}

DA20 is also very good for spin training, but you have to hold the controls fully crossed in order to maintain rotation - but you should be aware you have to pull up when rotation stops since it has a tendency just to accelerate to the ground...

I agree with B2N2, the engine cooling in fast cruise is a major issue, you actually won't get CHT in green unless you do some major climbs below Vy. They should have built in a cowl flap, but I guess they considered aircraft as primary trainer for ab-initio and climbing with fully closed flap (which a student might do) wouldn't do engine any good. As far as I'm informed, cylinder head cracking due to overcooling is quite common on -C1.

As for hot starts, they are a quite b**** since the moment you stop the engine, its temperature initially begins to rise (and not fall as you wold expect), due to lack of cooling airflow from the propeller. This causes the fuel to turn into vapour (especially in fuel injection pump), which causes lack of fuel flow during hot starts and thus preventing the engine start. The Continental's solution stated in IO-240 Operation manual (sadly not incorporated into DA20's) is that you run boost pump for 15-20 seconds with throttle closed and mixture in the idle cut-off position and then perform a normal start.

General handling is quite good, very responsive on all axes, pitch trim could be better (bettter than PA38 which also uses spring-type though). Certainly DA20 gives you much more work to do flying it straight and level than C172, but I just adore the aircraft due to its speed vs. cost ratio :)

P.S.: Is it just on DA20 I fly or are the pitot/static instruments (ASI, altimeter and VSI) very "jumpy"? It's almost impossible to maintain constant (accurate) vertical speed or airspeed... :hmm: