YBBN RWY14/32 Closure

[DashDispatch1979]

Does somebody know what is really going on here?

RWY 14/32 has been NOTAM closed between 0000-0600 UTC each weekday for works, causing significant network delays for us.

Not being able to get a useful response from Airservices (National Operations Centre) I have been told through other sources that the works that are being done on 14/32 are the same as those being done on 01/19 at night, ie, VASI replacement.

Why on earth can the 14/32 works not be done at night also?

Why are the users copping the extra cost of this in Network delays and aircraft holding when it could be done at night the same time as 01/19?

Anyone in the know?

NOTAM refers:

RWY 14/32 AND ALL TAXIWAYS LEADING TO RWY 14/32 NOT AVBL DUE WIP
RWY 01/19 AVBL.
RWY 14/32 AVBL FOR DECLARED EMERG WITH 30MIN PN.
REF MOWP YBBN 2010/03 STAGE 1.
FROM 07 190001 TO 08 200600 EST
MON TO FRI 0001 - 0600

[Roger Sir]

Not being able to get a useful response from Airservices (National Operations Centre)


There`s your first mistake. I`d try speaking to someone in the Tower if you want to really find out what`s going on.

[Going Boeing]

Why would they spend the money replacing the VASIS when Rwy 14/32 will be permanently closed (& become a taxiway) when the new parallel runway (01L/19R) becomes operational in 2015? Has this new runway been postponed?

[ravan]

Going Boeing....in a nutshell, yes; rumour has it that the parallel runway has been postponed for 5 years thanks to the GFC.

[Awol57]

Actually you would probably get the best answer if you asked whoever it is that operates Brisbane airport. Though the tower could likely give you the answer also.

[megle2]

Also ties in nicely with the new Brisbane peak movement fee's of $150 each.
7 - 10am / 3 - 7pm

[Red Jet]

Might as well get used to it! I had a read the Master Plan a while back, and from memory - the cross runway will remain permanently closed for 18-24 months, during construction of the parallel runway. It's gonna get worse, before it gets better:uhoh:

[DickyPearse]

when the new parallel runway (01L/19R) becomes operational in 2015?


I wouldn't expect it to be operational in 2015, 2018 at the earliest and maybe 2020.

[blind freddy]

The answer is that BAC asked Airservices if it would be possible to do the 14/32 PAPI installation during daylight hours. This is to save dollars as it is cheaper to have workman during business hours rather than the overtime that has to be paid at night.

Funnily enough, some genius previously from the NOC and now in Bris Vegas says yes, having looked at all his computer programmes that goes "bing", and determines there will be minimum delays.
Then what do you know, but delays are now happening, up to 20 minutes this week, and no one saw it coming.

As an aside, 600+ movements a day are becoming the norm at Brisbane.

The good news is that they are way ahead of schedule, the bad news is that it will still be a few more weeks.

Also, 14/32 will be closed for 12-18 months when construction eventually starts on the parallel, but after that willl be back in service.

[mirage3]

You really need to talk to the airport owner. BN Tower and ASA are not the authority here. ATC is told what, when, why and how and go from there. Talk to the owner.:8

[Worrals in the wilds]

Blind Freddy's on the money.
14/32 is back on the agenda as a permanent runway, even once 01L/19R is in operation. The VASIS are beyond repair and need replacement now. Doing the work at night would add extra costs from the contractor.

[chimbu warrior]

Why on earth can the 14/32 works not be done at night also?


I'll take a wild guess and suggest that the equipment and other resources required can only be in one place at a time.

After the fog on Friday they seemed to swing into action re-opening 14/32 for turboprop use, so the system would seem to have some flexibility. :)

[chuboy]

Current ATIS says 14 is open for arrivals...

[Worrals in the wilds]

The contractor has to be there at night anyway for the main runway.

the works that are being done on 14/32 are the same as those being done on 01/19 at night, ie, VASI replacement.

They're not installing the 01/19 PAPIs yet.

They won't begin night works on the main runway PAPIs until 14/32 is finished. Basically there's only one set of guys; when they finish 14/32 they'll swing to night works for the main runway.
01/19 cannot feasibly be closed except between midnight and 5am local, but 14/32 can be closed for day works, or so the studies said. I would think that with most civil construction projects (not just aviation), night works are a last resort option due to costs and safety.

There are also other works occuring periodically on the main runway at night that are not PAPI related.

[j3pipercub]

Why on earth can the 14/32 works not be done at night also?

Yeah that's make a whole lotta sense, take both runways out of the picture, cos nothing goes out after it's dark right? :ugh:

j3

[Worrals in the wilds]

couldn't be a greater difference between two cities...

That's the gag. It's a sarcastic name for Brisbane that originated in the 1990s referring to Brisbane's lack of interesting nightlife. I think one of the local radio stations started it. It's become a partly derogatory, partly affectionate name used by Generation X Brisbanites for the city.

[halas]

AKA Brisneyland :}

halas

[Capn Bloggs]

So effectively all aircraft will be sequenced to the one runway
Only at night?

[blind freddy]

The reason CROPS is no longer available is due to a Hazard Identification workshop created due to an incident a few months ago. A cirrus had a rejected landing ( after the third bounce!) and nearly took out a QF 737.

P-Dubby is correct with the limitations he mentioned.
The 5 kts down wind however remains; mitigated by the 5 mil;e fianl requirement.

The reason that CROPS has been suspended at night is that there is no way for the controller to issue avoidance heading at night below the MVA.

I have heard that the evening sequence is now lasting a little longer....

[equal]

thank god summer is approaching and we are blessed with a bit more of a longer day. is this it for CROPS at night in Brissy or is there something being worked out?

[cribble]

:D Has anybody asked the Cairns refueler what's going on?

[tourismman]

Yes i have always wondered about a 14 missed approach and 01 takeoff .I understand in daylight a early right turn inside 01-19 would be in order.

Last night from 6pm-9pm with wind under 10 knots everything was landing 01 and taking off 01.After 9pm a few prop landers landed 32 however they then had to make sure the 01 landers were on the runway so they sequenced the 32 over fly's with either altitude if they were crossing the 01-19 runway from the north, or distance with the down wind, to avoid any possible conflict with the traffic on 01 in case of a go around for the 01 traffic.

[blind freddy]

19/14 CROPS has been suspended UFN, as of yesterday arvo. Apparently the risk was assessed as too high, and only one of the CB Managers had the authority to sign off on the risk, which he refused to do.

01/14 and 01/32 will be available during daylight hours only.

The rumour is that AsA want the airlines to accept some of the risk for CROPS to resume.

For all you turoprops heading north it might be a good idea to start accepting 5kts of DW off 32, and save some delays!

Of course, a single runway for arrivals is going to start throwing up some big delays. 37 minutes of holding last night for some arrivals.

No end in sight at this stage.

[disturbedone]

The Holding Patterns have been oiled, primed, and are ready for use.

[blind freddy]

P-Dubby,
you are correct that delays are primarily affecting arrivals.
However, the more acft that depart off the secondary rwy will reduce pressure on 19. It is not unusual to be 8 or 10 deep at the holding point during the morning and afternoon peaks.

[Worrals in the wilds]

The rumour is that AsA want the airlines to accept some of the risk for CROPS to resume.
How does that work in practice? Do they sign some sort of waiver?

[blind freddy]

Short answer- yes.
At the moment AsA holds all the risk, and therefore responsibility if something goes wrong. If the airlines sign up to the procedure, then AsA abrogates its responsibility, and therefore its liability.
It all about the money, oh and safety of course!!

[Dick N. Cider]

It's always about the money. Anyone who thinks differently has rocks in their head.

[megle2]

On one hand they say traffic has slowed while the other hand brings in the $150 movement fee on the 01st Oct due increased traffic!!
Supposed to encourage arrivals / departures outside the peak periods.

[tourismman]

Last Tuesday there were 12 awaiting 19 departures at 0940am.9 holding for full length and 2 QFlink Q400'S and a Brindabella J41 holding at Alpha 3 intersection.

With over 600 movements on the busy days and up to nearly 50 in the peak hours aircraft movements are skyrocketing. Pax figures are now increasing at 7.5% growth for past 3 months .The decline they were talking about has now ended.

[Worrals in the wilds]

I wonder if BAC are rueing this short sighted decision? (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brisbane-airport-upgrade-stalled-by-passenger-downturn/story-e6freoof-1225699254814)
I think they're too frantic getting the domestic LCC common user terminal expansion and TWY C3T finished to be rueing too much.

[blind freddy]

You mean the Common User New Terminal???

[Worrals in the wilds]

Cute. A particularly apt description for the maze of shipping-containers that have been doing temporary duties :ok:
I asked if it was called that because it was for Common People (when you look at the airlines that use it) and received a bit of a death stare in return :}.

[tourismman]

Everything appears to have changed again Monday.During daylight hours 14 or 32 is being used again as well as 01 however all traffic on 01 is now doing ILS approaches and no longer visual river track from the north.I assume this gives the tower controller a better idea of conflicting traffic on 14 or 32 and allows for better visual separations????

All i know is some suburbs have alot more traffic all of a sudden and others none.:ugh:

[blind freddy]

tourismman, not quite correct. 01 and 14 or 32 can be used for CROPS during daylight hours. The reason that they are on the ILS has to do with the weather, not CROPS. There are new determinations on cloud base as to when they have to be nominated. It has recently gone from a 2500' to 4000' for 01. With all the dodgy weather we have been having there has been lots of ILS. Having said that 19 was the runway of the day today!

[equal]

thanks for the info p-dubby.

interesting that after about 45mins things are at a guess, as you're now required to get a slot time as far out as 360nm during 2000-1200 utc.