LHR Slots

[Megaton]

Probably not very clear title but I'm interested in slots into Heathrow. Last Wed or Thur (can't remember exactly which day) we were given 30-40 min slot delays into LHR due airfield weather. Now, as far as we could tell the weather at LHR was as good as it gets. We also checked approach winds and there was nothing stronger than about 15 kts at FL100. So why the slot delays and why weather?

Interestingly, a couple of days later we were given a 2 hr slot delay from LIS-LHR due to......sickness. Now this sounded much more plausible.



On a different issue, I called "ready" at LHR a couple of days ago to be met with a very sarcastic remark regarding the steps still being attached. I replied that they were being moved as we spoke to which the reply was something along the lines of "Well I'll be watching them move then." Now I realise that it's not unheard of at LHR for pilots to call "ready" with doors open etc but if ATC wish to discuss our honesty then perhaps a call to the company would be more appropriate than clogging the radio with sarcasm.

ps LHR still far and away the best ATC environment we work in though! One controller on a bad day perhaps?

[Geffen]

Can't speak to the inbound delay last week, just one of those things I guess.

As to the reporting ready. One of the causes of delay at Heathrow are crews reporting ready when the steps are on, airbridge on, doors open etc. etc. etc. When GMP has to put on a delay and crew's start to hear delays building, often the next crew calls when not quite ready and so on to get to the front of the queue. Soon enough we have 15-20mins delay with only a few actually ready to go. Hope that makes sense.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

OK, OK..... Before anyone leaps..... I'm old, past it and don't understand current ops.. Just to say the delays you mention were happening 10 years ago when there was NO delay at Heathrow. I was sitting around doing nothing one morning when a BA flight from Frankfurt said he was surprised at getting a straight in because he'd waited 45 minutes on the ground due to "delays into Heathrow". It's often the case that en route delays are blamed on the destination..... just like pilots telling pax that the delay is due to ATC!!!

[jackieofalltrades]

just like pilots telling pax that the delay is due to ATC

I wish I had a £1 for everytime I heard that one.

[Megaton]

Slot notification gave the reason as weather at destination. Nothing to do with enroute delays.


Geffen

Thanks for getting back to me. I understand the problems caused by pilots calling ready when they're not but we were ready and I felt that the chap on delivery was not entirely professional to suggest otherwise. Furthermore, sarcasm on the r/t is really a great idea in a multi-national environment where English may not be everyone's mother tongue.

[Geffen]

Fair point, I find it is always best to leave sarcasm and annoyance off the R/T.

[Vlad the Impaler]

There were a lot of delays last week due to enroute weather. When we start getting delays out it soon knocks on into inbound delay later on as the whole system backs up.
As for the sickness delay that was due to a couple of bods going sick at LL approach. Nothing to do with the tower which seems to get staffed come hell or high water. Unfortunately there is no CFMU delay code for Approach staffing so they use the tower staffing code instead!
Going back to the sarcasm thing, it is incredibly frustrating when crews are constantly trying to play the system with regard to jumping the queue. We know that it is a minority but nonetheless a significant minority and as well as being bloody annoying it is very unfair on those who play by the rules. When CDM arrives they'll be the first against the wall.
There are only certain parts of the airfield where we actually police "readiness" from the tower so you can expect to be jumped on if you report ready and the world and his wife are still busying themselves around your ship in one of these spots. Sorry if it offends but we're fed up with it and some ATCOs have started filing on it.
I find it more frustrating when the ready report is used to get start for a tight CTOT. Too often, a crew when queried will report ready and then hide on the ground frequency for ten minutes until they actually are. By this time they are woefully tight on the slot and more often than not the poor guy or girl on departures who is presented with it at the back of the queue has to weave it somehow to the front and then delay all those who were legitimately ready in good faith.
If you aren't going to make your slot (that means be ready at CTOT- taxi time, the +10 tolerance is for ATC use) then please get your company to delay your plan or even ask us to do it.
We are there to help and give the best possible service to everybody but we can only do that if everyone plays the game.
Anyway, it remains a fact that sarcasm on the RT is unprofessional but sometimes its easy to come across that way without realising when you are frustrated or annoyed.
I don't know if you've been up for a visit but please come and see how it works, we'll be more than happy to explain it all and answer any questions.

[Surferboy]

OK, OK..... Before anyone leaps..... I'm old, past it and don't understand current ops.. Just to say the delays you mention were happening 10 years ago when there was NO delay at Heathrow. I was sitting around doing nothing one morning when a BA flight from Frankfurt said he was surprised at getting a straight in because he'd waited 45 minutes on the ground due to "delays into Heathrow". It's often the case that en route delays are blamed on the destination..... just like pilots telling pax that the delay is due to ATC!!!


Well, if he got a straight-in the system worked perfectly! Got a complaint over the freqeuncy some time ago from a pilot who was fed up with being grounded for 35min at an airport wich is about 25min total flying time to the airport I work (and 5 min until entering my sector). He told me that it was unheard of that he had that much delay when up in the air he got a shortcut and no speed restrictions.

What he didn't know was that 25 mins earlier the sector was completely crowded with Inbounds. And he would have been in the middle of that if he would have departed as planned. (Major speedreductions and delaying vectors would be the result)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Well, if he got a straight-in the system worked perfectly! >>

Yes, but the 10 mile gap either side of him meant it wasn't working at all.

[Vlad the Impaler]

With regard to last Thursday I have had a sudden recollection which must have been blanked from my memory due to stress.
Although the weather at the field was fine there were large thunderstorm cells moving all around. There were sector restrictions north and south of us due to the weather and for over an hour every departure needed to avoid to some degree. That meant instead of being able to launch a departure every 60 seconds, they were all going 2 minutes apart. I don't know what the approach situation was like but when there are cells around the stacks there can be major issues. All the holds in the TMA are separated upto FL150 but this is only the case when aircraft are within the designated holding areas flying the published holds. When holding starts getting more random ie, "can we hold 2 miles south of biggin or go left instead of right" then the whole thing can go out of the window. Rather than having 9 at Ockham and 9 at Biggin, if they are no longer separated then they have to share the levels which means 9 total. As you can imagine this has a major effect on the holding capacity and therefore inbound delay.

[vectorer]

Airport inbound flow regs are nomally based on weather, capacity, sickness or "other". If the predicted landing rate for LHR is 40/60 or less, due to a combination of the surface wind and the 3A wind,this is normally attributed to weather (CFMU WA84), obviously if CB's/TSRA's are forecast this will also be factored in.
There are CFMU staffing and capacity codes that relate specifically to either sector/approach functions (SE/CE) or the airport of destination (SA/CA).
Sometimes the WA regs may appear obscure when the wx looks okay but it's probably down to the 3A wind reducing the landing rate.

[Megaton]

That's the point. There was no wind, no weather forecast or observed. Nothing. Nada. Rien.

[25check]

<<When CDM arrives they'll be the first against the wall.>>

Ah, the magical, answer to everything CDM....I haven't met a controller yet who thinks that will work, only managers....

[Vlad the Impaler]

CDM is such a great tool that at Frankfurt where it is "fully operational", they switch it off when anything non standard happens. My bloody dog could work out start times on a bog standard day. What a thoroughly pointless piece of kit.