Jepp plates now on ipad

[007helicopter]

Announced today at Oshkosh and can been added as an app, works fantastically and a great back up or I think personally can be used straight off the iPad in the cockpit. You need an existing jepp subscription.

Gets my vote and the app is free.

[S-Works]

Unfortunatly not a very stable app. Keeps crashing and if you go back to settings it erases your jepp serial number and forces a reload of the data.

However it has potential!

[007helicopter]

Bose. That's not good. I have not had any problem yet but only been trying it for a few hours.

I am still very impressed.

[IO540]

Is this

- a full Ipad port of Jeppview 3

- a simple viewer/browser for the Jepp database without a GPS moving map function (like this (http://www.solidfx.com/FX8.htm))

- something else?

No info on Jepp website.

Anybody could do #2, subject to a license deal with Jepp.

A full port of JV3/Flitedeck would be a lot of work - a complete user interface redesign for starters - and I can't see Jepp putting in the effort, given that few professional pilots will be using the Ipad (due to the obvious backup issues) so that leaves GA - a small IFR market which Jepp doesn't pay much attention to.

Funnily enough, I gather that FliteStar was made by an outfit called Mentor Plus. It was originally made for the Mac, then they made a PC version, then they sold it to
Jeppesen who then abandoned the Mac :)

[S-Works]

It is nothing more than a simple TC viewer tied to your Jepp account. I am able to view my entire European sub. Works well enough as a plate viewer apart from the bugs which will need working out.

I know you have a real hard on for some solution that gives you a PC in the cockpit but you are a bit of a minority Peter. A simple solution that will display plates and have easy update is what most of us want. This does it OK but not in any special way. However the fact that it is available on such a useful gadget as the iPad enhances it's potential.

[m_cudin]

what's the name of this app?? anyone knows if it works also on iphone? I know that the screen is small, but can be a nice "emergency backup tool!!"

Bye,
Marco

[IO540]

I know you have a real hard on for some solution that gives you a PC in the cockpit

Usual bollox written by bose-x, whose posts I tend to ignore so I won't comment on this.

[S-Works]

Quote:
I know you have a real hard on for some solution that gives you a PC in the cockpit
Usual bollox written by bose-x, whose posts I tend to ignore so I won't comment on this.

You did........ :ok:

However I will point out that your posts here and on flyer cldearly mark you out as a PC in the cockpit evangalist and apple basher. A fact that you were asked by multiple people on one thread to sling your hook.....

I did actually answer your question though if you took the time to undo your knicker elastic and bother to read it......

[W2k]

Would never even consider using Apple equipment in the cockpit, in any manner whatsoever where the failure or inavailability of said could have an impact on flight safety - cheap plastic, consumer-grade crap hardware and Apple reserves the right to tell you what software you can run on it. Would not fancy finding that something I needed had suddenly been forcibly uninstalled prior to a flight! And Apple has a documented history of doing this, EVEN with legitimate apps, for completely arbitrary reasons.

Having maps and plates, moving or otherwise, on a nice tablet-size form factor would be great but like many others I am standing by for a rugged or semi-ruggedized solution that does not come with Apple-inflated pricing and runs Windows/Linux or a custom embedded OS.

[stevelup]

You're just trolling right?

cheap plastic, consumer-grade crap hardware

Apple are the only mainstream company that *doesn't* make cheap plastic crap

Would not fancy finding that something I needed had suddenly been forcibly uninstalled prior to a flight!

Where do you get the idea that Apple remove apps after installation. Complete nonsense.

And Apple has a documented history of doing this, EVEN with legitimate apps, for completely arbitrary reasons.

Utter fantasy. Please provide one single example of where this has happened.

Having maps and plates, moving or otherwise, on a nice tablet-size form factor would be great but like many others I am standing by for a rugged or semi-ruggedized solution that does not come with Apple-inflated pricing and runs Windows/Linux or a custom embedded OS.

Enjoy your wait, and enjoy the stability that comes from running an arbitrary OS on an arbitrary piece of hardware where no proper integration testing has been done.

Finally, given that the iPad is currently unique in the marketplace, how can you claim the pricing is inflated? If there were a bunch of 10" tablet devices with 8 hour battery life and the Apple one was more expensive, then you could claim this. But there aren't, so it isn't!

[W2k]

Apple are the only mainstream company that *doesn't* make cheap plastic crap
While I will admit that few other companies are any better, there is certainly nothing about Apple's hardware that makes it stand out in terms of quality. The iPad and iPhone are very pretty to look at (until they get scratched), but the components are the same asian-made lowest-bidder crap that everybody uses. Even the "magical" A4 processor was revealed as just a repackaged Samsung core.

Where do you get the idea that Apple remove apps after installation. Complete nonsense.
From their own phone-home API, as described and documented here (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-10115673-233.html?tag=mncol;title). Granted they do not seem to have used it yet, and I apologize for this incorrectness in my previous post - they do, however, have a history of removing apps arbitrarily from the App store which is unacceptable in itself since the it is the only distribution channel for iOS software, effectively denying users control over what software to run.

Enjoy your wait, and enjoy the stability that comes from running an arbitrary OS on an arbitrary piece of hardware where no proper integration testing has been done.
The suggestion that out of every hardware vendor only Apple does proper integration testing is laughable.

If there were a bunch of 10" tablet devices with 8 hour battery life and the Apple one was more expensive, then you could claim this. But there aren't, so it isn't!
I can get a fully-featured PC with a bigger screen and more than sufficient battery life for much less than the price of an iPad, so yes, it's overpriced.

[IO540]

The basic question an "EFB" user needs to ask is what would he do if the device packed up.

Which it obviously can do, regardless of how it is made or how it is "certified". This is why commercial (installed ) EFB products come in pairs, with redundant computers and power supplies.

If you fly with paper (only), you don't need a backup.

If you fly with electronic data (only), you do need a backup.

And there are multiple scenarios where an electronic solution can let you down right when you need it

- in flight failure due to software crash, causing database corruption so a reset down't work (the most likely - happened to me when driving with TomTom the other day; the UK road database on the SD card got wiped and I had just the French road one, which was a whole lot of use near High Wycombe ;) )

- in flight hardware failure

- something happening the night before the flight e.g. a database update corrupting the whole thing (e.g. a friend of mine has just trashed his Jepp Flitestar installation by applying the very last update CD; probably bad luck since I know of 2 others whose update was OK). One can guard against this by never applying updates shortly before a trip, etc.

- etc (you get my drift)

So, what will be the backup??

Looking at things the other way round - flying with paper as primary and electronic data as backup for unexpected changes of plan - is a lot more sensible, because most of the time you will have paper.

The backup reliability is then a lot less critical because one is then looking at a failure of two independent "systems", and various solutions will work.

The Ipad works as well as any standard-LCD device providing the ambient light can be reasonably controlled; these pics (http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m74/peterh337/ls800-v-x70ex/) show the kind of degradation one can expect in bright light, against my LS800 tablet which has a special sunlight-readable LCD. The Ipad has a very fast PDF browser, which is a plus; however I am sure Jepp are not distributing their "ebook" plates as PDFs because that would make it rather easy to share them around ;) There are mixed reports from U.S. pilots on how the Ipad is affected by heat; it appears to shut down within minutes if exposed to direct sunlight while in a hot cockpit, just as most consumer-grade tablet computers would.

Personally, I am sticking with the LS800 because it runs a GPS moving map and I have VFR charts for all of Europe on it, so I can always see exactly where I am for emergency / obstacle clearance etc purposes, but if I was after just a Jepp plate viewer then the e-book based SolidFX (http://solidfx.com/) offers total sunlight readability, and presumably due to the lack of the heat-generating LCD backlight it appears to not suffer from heat effects.

However, I wonder what will happen to SolidFX now that Jepp have pulled the rug from under their feet with the Ipad product. One hopes Jepp will continue to license their plates to SolidFX.

Pricing-wise, the two solutions are likely to cost the same - sub-£100 if you already pay for the appropriate Jepp coverage (nearly £2000/year for all of Europe, IFR and VFR) under another heading.

Neither product runs Jeppview (a windoze application) natively so both rely on a Jepp license and the supply of the Jepp database and some kind of rendering software.

EFB certification has no relevance because (G- and N-reg context) it is 100% legal (if not necessarily wise) to fly with only electronic data, with no backups, and this has been the case for a very long time. It comes down to the hardware/software, and consumer stuff = consumer stuff no matter what you do with it. But even a mil-spec computer (which tend to be too heavy) can pack up.

I have used Jeppview and Flitestar for a few years and the software is mostly reliable if used out of the box with default configs (don't try to edit the aircraft performance data) except for the Flitedeck program which is a piece of rubbish and which crashes readily. I am thus not suprised that Jepp's first Ipad product release crashes as well; it would be out of character if it was solid :)

[stevelup]

While I will admit that few other companies are any better, there is certainly nothing about Apple's hardware that makes it stand out in terms of quality. The iPad and iPhone are very pretty to look at (until they get scratched), but the components are the same asian-made lowest-bidder crap that everybody uses.

Who else machines housings out of single solid pieces of aluminium? It's not just about the electronics, it's the whole package.

Even the "magical" A4 processor was revealed as just a repackaged Samsung core.

That's not exactly newsworthy. the A4 processor has an ARM core, and it's manufactured by Samsung. The only bit of the die that is the same as the Samsung part is the core - and why would you expect that to be any different.

From their own phone-home API, as described and documented here. Granted they do not seem to have used it yet, and I apologize for this incorrectness in my previous post - they do, however, have a history of removing apps arbitrarily from the App store which is unacceptable in itself since the it is the only distribution channel for iOS software, effectively denying users control over what software to run.

It is this control that prevents the devices being riddled with malware - I think it's a price worth paying. To say there is no choice would be absurd given the number of apps in the App Store.

The suggestion that out of every hardware vendor only Apple does proper integration testing is laughable.

I don't think any other vendor has the degree of integration between the hardware and the OS that Apple does?

I can get a fully-featured PC with a bigger screen and more than sufficient battery life for much less than the price of an iPad, so yes, it's overpriced.

I can get potatoes for much less than the price of mangoes. That comparison is about as useful as yours!

I know you can get a fully-featured PC with a bigger screen and (just about) adequate battery life for less than the cost of the iPad. But then that isn't an iPad is it, so it's a pointless comparison...

[IO540]

Steve - I agree Apple make stuff which is better quality than a lot of IT stuff out there, but they don't have a monopoly on it.

Solid aluminium - this is common in the form of machined diecastings, and most upmarket laptops use this, or magnesium, or other stuff. My girlfriend has a stunning 2004 Sony laptop which is built from nickel loaded carbon fibre (current Sony stuff is largely crap though). The Ipad appears better built than most other £500 stuff, currently.

99% of malware comes not from software installs but from viruses people get over the internet, from emails especially if using Outlook, infected websites (including pilot forums ;) ), bootleg software downloaded from P2P networks (P2P is flooded with trojans nowadays), and kids get malware transmitted over MSN chat, etc. Apple's control over the sale of application software does almost nothing to stop viruses.

Historically, Apple have been much less of a virus writing target because of Steve Jobs' PR alignment with the widespread anti-Microsoft sentiment; whether this cosy situation will continue is anybody's guess looking at the growing anti-Apple sentiment over their Iphone 4 and more general signal strength indication cover-ups.

Long term, I see Apple having an ever bigger profile as a "big American corporation" and that will make them a target for malware written in China/Russia, and given the high correlation between being an Apple user and being non IT savvy, Apple users will be an easy target because while most serious PC users have effective AV software, most Apple users have no virus protection whatsoever.

Apple will pull an application from their store if they receive a complaint alleging some kind of legal issue. It is easy for one's competitor to make such an allegation.

[S-Works]

As an interesting aside from the Apple bashing.....

The iPad meets the definition of a Class 1 EFB using Type A applications (no dynamic or interactive data). I understand that there is already an application for approval of it in this category with the FAA pending.

As someone who for many years made a living on a corporate scale from the endless upgrades and fixes that the Microsoft family provides I always regarded Apple with suspicion and a certain element of only being bought by beardy weirdes and fan boys. However after buying my first Mac I was stunned by the reliability and ease of use and have becomes a convert owning the full range off Apple goodies from iPhone 4, iPad to iMac and Macbooks and even AppleTV. They all do what they say on the tin and have proven reliable. We don't even own a PC in our house now and for the few occasions when I need a PC which is basically flitestar I just run parallels.

I happen to think the iPad is a very impressive tool. I run a variety of aviation apps on it that I use in the day job and then when we are in the hotel at night, I have email, web and can watch my slingbox all on a device with amazing battery life.

I don't need a PC in the cockpit, I don't need to attach sat phones and moving map GPS. I can use the Garmins that my own and work aircraft are fitted with and I can use the radio to get the latest weather. Filling a light aircraft to the gunnels with plugged in technology is frankly a turn off for me, I don't need it and manage to get around perfectly well.

I do like the iPads ability to display cockpit readable plates and have been using it for that and for filing flight plans etc on the go. I have accumulated a little collection of PAYGO sims from around Europe now for the occasions when I cant find WiFi, but to be honest even those are getting fewer and far between.

is it perfect? Not even close. Is it matched by anything else? Not even close.

[mm_flynn]

On ipad heat sensitivity.

I have one in a nice black case and poped it on 'the dash' for about 15 minutes on a 30C day at noon with not a cloud in the sky. when I powered back up I did get a 'Too Hot error'. However, after about 5 minutes in the shade it was back in action.

Because of the ultrathin form factor I find I am more likely to treat it like my lap baord rather than a PC (which I would never think to put on the dash for storage).

[Fuji Abound]

Some pilots have wanted a computer in their cockpit that can do everything for as long as, well, computers have been around.

For me that would mean a device that was:


Sunlight readable,
About the size and weight of an iPad,
with a battery life of at least 6 hours, like the iPad,
built in GPS, like the iPAD
instant boot with a stable operating system, like the iPad,
robust, like the iPad,
and in the perfect world integrated WiFi via satellite.
Well I have to say the iPad scores 5 out of 7. Integrated WiFi via satellite ‘phone is not something many will justify although I think we may see the cost of these services fall considerably over the next ten years. The iPad is not sunlight readable but it is not bad.

In terms of the software I want:


Moving map,
Integrated with NOTAMS and weather,
Plates,
Access to the usual aviation based web services,
Internet, SMS and movies to alleviate general boredom.
The iPad does not do as well. No one has come up with European moving map software, but I am confident they will. I can get plates but it is a pain. I can get all the usual aviation based services which work well enough just like on any other pc.

Now I have thought for some years all of this should be possible. On and off I have used various portable devices including iPaqs with Anywhere, and subsequently PocketFms, various notepads and the usual suspects from Garmin, including my trusty 195 etc.

However after all these years I have reached a conclusion.

I could cobble together most of what I want. I think the iPad is already a good example of a company that has nearly produced the ideal hardware. PocketFms is the perfect example of the moving map software I want. However to bring it all together in a form that I would want to use for primary navigation still remains a costly exercise that results in a package that is a best a compromise. I don’t think that is likely to change for at least the next few years.

So I find myself thinking that we are looking for a panacea that doesn’t exist and then I started using glass screens. They really do everything I want. All I need is some form of reliable backup just in case. My 195 has still never let me down.

Now I realise not everyone fly’s glass.

For those I really think you will be wasting money and effort re-inventing this particular wheel. Garmin’s really excellent moving map display does the perfect job of an MFD. It may cost getting on for £1.8K, but it works and works really well. If you cobble together something close you will have spent at least half the cost, if not more, but at best what you have will be a compromise.

So after all these years I have concluded that we are all wasting our time and money cobbling together Heath Robinson gizmos when in fact in the long term if you need in cockpit glass you would be better off buying something like the Garmin 695 supported by one of the myriad devices for ground based access to weather etc. be it an iPhone or some sort of PC.

On a positive note, since this thread is about the iPad and running Jepp Plates on the iPad, then I think if someone is prepared to produce good European moving map software for the iPad, then I think the iPad will prove to be the best blend of non dedicated glass for the cockpit that is around now or for the next few years if only because there are already positive signs that its development will be fueled by all those black turtle necked pilots in the States. :)

[IO540]

No one has come up with European moving map softwareFor the Ipad, there appear to be a relatively obscure generic GPS moving map application (http://www.twonav.com/?op=1_4%E2%89%A0ws=235%E2%8C%A9=0en) which can read Oziexplorer-compatible graphics and .map calibration files (via a converter). More here (http://www.twonav.com/?op=2_1&lang=0en&prod=712). I don't know of anybody who has tested this though.

You are still facing the same challenge which is obtaining the charts in the appropriate "open" format (no longer possible with Memory Map, except where somebody has scanned a paper chart and posted it on bit-torrent) but that is the same situation for everybody.

I fly with paper printouts and am not interested in filling the cockpit with gadgets, each doing a part of what I need; especially "portable" stuff which needs to be plugged in. One can get a ~ 100% solution but it inevitably will run windoze and with a suitable type of LCD it costs a lot more than an Ipad - around £2000 (http://www.sumotech.com/english/hardware/st312_overview.php) + VAT. Having paid out almost that much for the LS800 in 2005 (which can displa approach plates, just about) I am not spending any more money.

Something with a big screen can enable a 50+ pilot to read approach plates without needing reading glasses ;) but if people are going to use the Ipad just as a file browser for the display of approach plates and other static documents, it is a very close call between it and the much more readable (but incapable of running any applications) e-book readers.

BTW it is possible to get satellite phone derived wifi right now but it is awfully expensive. The next step down - much cheaper - is a standalone satellite phone used with a dial-up connection to get tafs/metars etc, for tactical decisionmaking enroute; this is what I have and is quite cheap. But I don't think the Ipad can do a PPP dial-up connection - currently you still need a windoze computer for that.

[Fuji Abound]

IO540

Yes, my point exactly.

The iPad is very good indeed as a web browser. Yeah it doesnt bowse any differently than an old notebook purchased on Fleabay but it scores on battery life, instant on operating system and nice form factor. For me its worth it for that alone.

It will become useful in the cockpit when proper aviation moving map software is written for Europe. To repeat myself PocketFMS is superb and IMHO far and away the best. If you havent used the software it is not just scanned charts (which are a waste of time) but "proper" digital charting every bit as good as my Avidyne.

However you are right none of these products really come close to "proper" glass for in cockpit use. If this is what you want then I am afraid either invest in a panel fit unit or buy a Garmin 695, otherwise you are wasting you rmoney.

[IO540]

invest in a panel fit unit or buy a Garmin 695A couple of issues there.

Anything you put in the panel is going to go down the plughole if you get a total electrical failure - a not impossible scenario in a light aircraft especially SE.

This is the huge attraction of some kind of a handheld moving map product, and if it can display plates that's a bonus.

This is also why it is better to have approach plates on a battery-powered device and not in a panel mounted MFD. Plus the readability issue at the reading distance in the latter case...

And with a handheld radio, you have a battery backup for nav+comms :ok: Done with just two items of "gadgetry" :) I have a G496 mounted in the yoke, very neatly, so the handheld radio is the only "loose" item.

The other thing is that no panel mounted plate display solution can use the free EAD plates. You are stuck with the ultra pricey Jepp as the only option. I am sure the vast majority of European pilots who have a plate-capable MFD are not paying for this option.

Finally I don't think a 695 can display European plates of any kind - but it is a good moving map product. But it cannot display any "printed" VFR maps, or any user-supplied moving map images.

So many half-solutions :)

[Fuji Abound]

IO540

Yes, I would agree so many half way solutions.

The only completely integrated solution is panel glass. With Avidyne R9 you can have real time weather radar, sms, moving map needless to say and approach and airport plates - all for a price. As for redundancy they have of course thought of that too and you would be very unlucky indeed to see a failure mode that results in the total loss of the whole lot. Of course it could happen I guess, which is why I carry my trusty 195 and a hand held Icom with me.

I suggested the 695 because I have used the 695 although I dont own one. It works great. I am not sure whether you can put Jepp plates on it, I thought you could, but stand to be corrected. That aside it is as good as you are going to get in terms of portable glass.

[S-Works]

One mans half solution is another mans full solution. I think it really depends on how reliant you are on technology. I know for example there are many trips that Peter would not do without GPS and a clear ceiling that to many of us are just part of a days work using the simplest of gear. Not a criticism just different levels of comfort.

I don't need satellite coms, SMS and a laptop in the cockpit, the basic panel mount GPS does it's job and the radio for talking to people to get the weather. I use paper plates for my destination and alternate that I print for the planned leg. An EFB is just a device that allows me a bit more data without the bulk and the ipad gives me this and the ability to watch the Time Tunnel in the hotel!!

[Fuji Abound]

Bose - I agree. The only glass one of the aircraft I use to fly regularly had was my glass bottle of water! In reality I have nearly always gone any distance with a GPS but my black and white Garmin 195 has stood me well for a very long time.

If I am honest I love flying with the G1000 or the Avidyne because I love seeing the technology work together seemlessly but in reality I am not a whole lot better off than when I relied on the instruments in front of me and the 195.

I accept that I am less comfortable without any form of moving map display if going distance, but I would get by.

Perhaps I am just a big kid at heart and like to imagine I am driving something much more impressive than it really is. :}

[IO540]

I know for example there are many trips that Peter would not do without GPS and a clear ceiling that to many of us are just part of a days work using the simplest of gear

More bollox from bose-x (PPL, IR, SEP, SEL, SEW, ATP, CPL, MEP, MEPL, CRTI, CRE, TRI, TRE, ATPL, Concorde TRE, RoHS, ISO9000, CE, OBE, CBE, oh yes must not forget the interesting CPL/IR ;) FCA, ACA, ACII, MBA, MBIM, MBII, AOPA, IAOPA, IPAD, IPHONE, operator of "17" Dorniers,,, did I leave anything out? If so I apologise)

Oh that wonderful phrase "a days' work", eh? It kind of implies that the writer is a real working airline pilot, doesn't it? Hohoho.

Here we go again.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Garmin has just announced an ad on IFR chart service with georef positoning, (ie the little airplane symbol which graphically shows where you are is overlayed on the actual plate) for the 695/696. IMO it is impossible to beat this unit in terms of value for the dollar, its only fault is that it is so big it is hard find a good place to mount it. A friend of mine just added it to his AA5. He had the panel modified so that it sits just to the left of the radio stack, panel mounted with a AIRGIZMO mount. His main radio stack has 2XComms, 1 VOR/ILS, ADF and Transponder, or in other word basic IFR but the addition of the 696 mounted in front of him gives him amazing situational awareness and really transforms light aircraft IFR.

Better living through high technology :ok:

[IO540]

Garmin has just announced an ad on IFR chart service with georef positoning

Is this on the NACO plates, US only?

[Big Pistons Forever]

Nope it is a chartview product which uses Jepp charts which of course have world wide coverage. There is, however, a 500 USD fee to get the chart laoder software and the usual subscription fee. It is still amazing capability for the money

[The Grim EPR]

Mummy! Daddy! Stop fighting!

"Quote:
I know for example there are many trips that Peter would not do without GPS and a clear ceiling that to many of us are just part of a days work using the simplest of gear
More bollox from bose-x (PPL, IR, SEP, SEL, SEW, ATP, CPL, MEP, MEPL, CRTI, CRE, TRI, TRE, ATPL, Concorde TRE, RoHS, ISO9000, CE, OBE, CBE, oh yes must not forget the interesting CPL/IR FCA, ACA, ACII, MBA, MBIM, MBII, AOPA, IAOPA, IPAD, IPHONE, operator of "17" Dorniers,,, did I leave anything out? If so I apologise)

Oh that wonderful phrase "a days' work", eh? It kind of implies that the writer is a real working airline pilot, doesn't it? Hohoho.

Here we go again."

[IO540]

Nope it is a chartview product which uses Jepp charts

Amazing... all of a sudden we have three Jepp options: SolidFX, Ipad and the G695/6.

The 695/6 is a whole lot more useful as a GPS than the others. I wonder if the screen res is good enough to display a whole plate. I have used the 695 but the data it was showing did not suggest the screen is even 800x600 which is about the minimum needed for that.

[The Grim EPR]

The Garmin 695 is 800 x 480. (7" diagonal) I have one and am intrigued to see how the Jepp plates would look on it. Any screenshots anywhere?

Also, if you have the Jepp subscription, is it available concurrently on all devices that you may have?

Also, does anyone know if PilotWizz Pro will 'fetch' all of the UK AIP and store it offline on an Ipad? The Mac application FetchAIP from the same author is fantastic for preflight, and I know that the Iphone version of PilotWizz Pro will store the airfield plates one by one.

What I really want is the functionality of FetchAIP in the Ipad PilotWizz Pro.

Then I will go and buy one!

This looks interesting, but again it appears to be a 'one by one' solution.

iAIP - an iPad browser app designed to access the Aeronautical Information Publication (http://iaip.leosh.com/)

[IO540]

800x480 will be just fine.

That is just about the base resolution at which the Jepp plates render OK, and it appears they were originally designed to work on this.

800x600 (or 1024x768, etc) leaves an unused space either side, so is no better than 800x480.

[S-Works]

Ooooooh Peter, did I hit a raw nerve........

[Fuji Abound]

Yep, as I said, after wasting a not inconsiderable sum on home made solutions over the years the best advice I can give to anyone is buy a 695/6 if you possibly afford to do so. It might cost £800 more than an iPad by the time you have kitted out the iPad with software, and a lot less than some windows based sunlight readable notepads with all the Windozs limitations, but it will be worth the extra cost in the long run.

If you cant afford that then you are still better off with one of the other Garmin moving map products.

If you really want plates, internet based radar, SMS, etc in the cockpit then a proper glass set up is really the only sensible solution.

You know it makes sense. :ok:

[NazgulAir]

You know it makes sense.
...Now why does this make me think of a Sherman tank?

[IO540]

If you really want plates, internet based radar, SMS, etc in the cockpit then a proper glass set up is really the only sensible solution.

The above can be done with a windoze tablet computer and a satphone, easily enough, but the only really neat way of achieving it with georeferenced (aircraft position depicting) radar images is the MLX770 (http://www.avidyne.com/products/mlx770/index.asp). That will cost about ten grand to install, plus the cost of a compatible (and big enough to be actually useful) MFD. Plus a not insignificant monthly and per-flight operating cost which Avidyne are not too ready to talk about.

Having played with all this stuff I now think a simple setup for getting metars and tafs (just a bit of text) is actually 90% of the job, and this can be done quite neatly with a satphone and some little computer to drive it. This enables early decisionmaking regarding diversions which - on the occassions that you need it - is an absolutely brilliant capability.

It is no good asking IFR ATC for weather... anybody claiming they can needs to get up there and try it with London Control, Langen Radar, etc. You might get enough words in edgeways but they rarely get back to you. This is why one sometimes hears Ryanair calling up London Information for weather; easier with a 2nd pilot on a 2nd radio, but I can't believe O'Leary being too tight to give them ACARS.

[Fuji Abound]

The above can be done with a windoze tablet computer and a satphone, easily enough


It depends what you mean by "can be done". I suspect we agree it cant be done in a sufficiently user friendly way to be of any value to most pilots.

[IO540]

The answer to that one would be a bit long, but essentially it depends on how much commercial effort somebody wants to put into it - at the server end, not just inside the plane.

I think the market is too small. There are only of the order of 3k private IR holders in all of Europe, and only a fraction of them fly, and only a fraction of those fly in conditions warranting in-flight data, and only a fraction of those want to spend money :) You only have to pop up to FL100-180 and see the total lack of GA up there; I barely recall getting visual with another GA plane in the last few years. I saw one over Germany once.

Those that really really want this can buy it from Avidyne or MT.

This is not America. Here the pilot population is about 1/20, the mission profiles tending to be much more benign (due to lack of utility value, caused by low airfield numbers and facilities), and the only way to get airborne weather is via a relatively pricey satellite phone link.

However, a modern satphone could be used to pick up textual data all by itself - just like a GSM phone can.

[Fuji Abound]

No, what I meant was you can cobble together a notepad and a Immarsat 'phone, buy various software packages and variously wire it all together but having seen people do that you end up with a tangle of components that at best are OK residing on your cos lap. It may work, but it is hardly ergonomic. :) That is why as you say if you really want this capability it is probably not worth while doing it "on the cheap".

I still reckon the Zaon is a great piece of kit and in their case you can do a reasonable job panel mounting the box. However there is no comparison with active traffic on a panel mounted MFD.

I reckon Avidyne and Garmin have almost got the integration of the various technology spot on. It is not cheap but it really does the job, and once you have used it everything else seems Heath Robinson.

I suppose I am just not keen on having various gadgets on your lap - a knee board works fine, but even then mine ends up tucked down the side of the seat most of the time including in the Cirrus where I have neither a yoke or stick to get in the way. If you can panel or yoke mount the kit in some way and wire it into the mains it has got half a chance.

[IO540]

No, what I meant was you can cobble together a notepad and a Immarsat 'phone, buy various software packages and variously wire it all together but having seen people do that you end up with a tangle of components that at best are OK residing on your cos lap. It may work, but it is hardly ergonomic. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif That is why as you say if you really want this capability it is probably not worth while doing it "on the cheap".

That's true but I think you are basing that on the article I wrote a year or two ago, investigating the various satcomms options. That was pretty unwieldy, but somebody had to do it :)

The reality is that you can get full open internet with just a satphone which has a cable (or bluetooth) connection to some handheld computer.

And once you have an internet connection, you can get "everything".

You don't need to buy any software. Windoze has all the stuff built-in.

Except aircraft position referenced weather radar images; for that Avidyne and MT have a monopoly.

But my view is that these are of very limited utility in-flight; AFAIK the Avidyne data is 10-15 mins delayed and anyway the resolution is not good enough for CB avoidance in IMC. That's why after the initial investigation I did not spent any more time on that angle. It is totally trivial to visit meteox.com (or any of the other free radar sites) before the flight.

Sure you can buy a neat solution for 10-20 grand. But not many would pay that. I certainly wouldn't.

[The Grim EPR]

I've relented and bought an Ipad. The best solution (or than the brilliant I'm sure, Jepp option) that I've found is simply downloading the AIP airfield charts one by one.

I've bitten the bullet, done the boring downloading and have UK, France & Ireland available as separate Zip files. Dragging these into GoodReader gives you the option to extract the files - all very easy.

If anyone wants a copy, please PM me.

Obviously no responsibility taken for anything etc etc etc. PIC to verify all info etc etc etc.