Planning

[Rishy]

Hi All,

I’m in the very early stages of planning my first major (qualified) cross county and would like some general advice.

The trip is a big one – Newcastle to Newquay (and back). I’m a low (65) hours PPL so won’t be attempting this alone; I have enlisted a very competent instructor friend to come along.

I’d like to hear people’s experiences and advice on what exactly should go into the planning stage and what I should be aware of for the trip. I’d like to do all the planning before going to my co-pilot to get it rubber-stamped and although I’ve a fair idea I don’t want to miss anything out.

Thanks in advance :ok:

Tim

[Johnm]

Study the chart and identify a route that you feel comfortable with considering airspace and danger/restricted areas as well as available altitude and terrain.

Think about whether you want to stay over land or would be happy to cross the Severn estuary.

Think about what options would be available if you were refused a zone crossing and what diversions might be available in case of poor weather.

Then plot the route as you were taught, identify suitable way points, think about what ATC services you will use and any navaids you might tune into and you should be ready to go.

You might want to go to Perranporth rather than Newquay as its cheaper.

Possible route might be: Newcastle to the Manchester low level corridor, then across the Shawbury MATZ (they'll give you service), break the journey at Shobdon then across to Merthyr and Porthcawl (talk to Cardiff even though outside their zone) then overhead Chivenor and on to Newquay.


Good luck!

[MDHAC]

Hope you have a good flight.
I would suggest that you approach this flight exactly the same way as you will have done when you studied for your PPL.
If you do what you should have needed to do for your test then you will cover everything.
The only additional things id suggest are to make use of the Navaids (even if you have GPS), and dont forget to ring first (for both PPR and also to check they have fuel (im guessing you'll need this) also consider that this will be a fairly long flight that you may not be used to so may be worth planning an additional landing (you may need to for Fuel anyway) for a break.

But the usual weather, notams, fuel etc are the important things.

Make sure you check the current chart properly to avoid airspace etc (espacially the class A airspaces I find some of the heights can easily be missed when first looking at the chart)

Think through your route and write down the radio frequencies you'll need and in order of use. This will help reduce work load a little.

You may also wish to take additional oil etc. with you.

Enjoy your trip.

[IO540]

Tim - if you have a PPL then you already know all you need to know to do this.

Get the VFR charts, draw a route which is outside controlled airspace, work out the MSA for each leg, work out the speed/performance stuff, and that's it. You navigate it any way you like, including (the easiest way) GPS.

Depending on the plane, you may need a fuel stop.

Before the flight, get weather, notams, and call the destination(s) to make sure they are open, have avgas, etc.

I am sorry if this sounds unhelpful but if you cannot do this already then your PPL instructor(s) should be shot :)

You may also wish to take additional oil

Only if flying a Spitfire which has never been serviced :)

[TractorBoy]

IO540 - Think you're being a little harsh here. There's a world of difference between navigating round well-trodden routes and airspace as you're taught in the PPL, and leaping into a long cross-country as he's planning.

Rishy - you DO have all the skills you need. You just need to realise it - that was my major stumbling block. Break the trip down into small legs of about 50 miles, and take one at a time. Perhaps plan the first leg to coincide with a nav point / route you covered during your training.

You'll soon realise that if you know how to navigate between A-B, you know how to go on from B-C and C-D. There's no fundamental difference. It's all confidence. And going with an instructor is a good idea, but don't get anything rubber stamped - just go with your plan. You're P1, so get used to it !

And yes - take some oil just in case.

[Fly-by-Wife]

Newcastle - Newquay is a sufficiently long distance to perhaps need to consider the possibility that you cannot get back on the same day, due to weather (or perhaps a tech. fault) - even with an instructor.

What would you do if you had to overnight at Newquay, or at an intermediate point on the way back?

FBW

[IO540]

What would you do if you had to overnight at NewquayYou go and check out the club scene :)

I wouldn't do this as a lunch trip either.

An interesting Q is whether the instructor will pay for his own hotel room :)

[Big Pistons Forever]

The first significant cross country after you get your PPL is a significant milestone. I have two pieces of advice.

1) If you do not have one allready get a portable GPS. Modern moving map GPS units will give you an invaluable level of situational awareness that is a great stress reducer Obviously you have to do all the regular nav planing but you would be IMO foolish to not avail yourself of all available nav aids, of which GPS is the best.

2) Weather is the biggest problem with longer flights in light aircraft. Pick a day with a stable high pressure system along your entire route. It may take a while to get ideal weather, but IMO is worth the wait. Good weather will reduce the stress and allow you to really enjoy your flight.

[VMC-on-top]

Tim, I've sent you a PM.

[liam548]

Good luck with this. Im similar hours to you have planned a similar trip to Newquay from North of England.

Let us know how you get on.

Liam

[Rishy]

Hi folks,

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.

I agree that in theory, this type of trip is well within the capabilities of a PPL pilot, but with other commitments (ATPL ground studies) I am not as current as I'd like to be and my solo XC was a long time ago. I also strongly feel that fresh while fresh PPL pilots have the theoretical knowledge, there is still an awful lot to learn. Attempting to do this a trip alone with my limited experience would be foolhardy.

To put some meat on the bones, this is a trip that will run over two days, outbound early Saturday morning, returning the following day. There is a reason for this specific trip, that being a mate’s stag weekend. Thankfully I will have an excuse for not getting totally hammered (those days are behind me) although it does mean I am required to fund my instructor’s weekend away!

We’ll be taking a GPS along but I want to do this in the traditional way as much as possible. In particular I want to get more experience of using navaids for tracking and position fixes. I don’t think there is enough of this is on the current PPL syllabus.

Full tanks on our PA28 would be enough fuel to get us there non-stop but I am planning a single stop half way. A good friend of mine has told me Wolverhampton Halfpenny Green has good facilities and at just £10 landing fee it might be a good option.


In terms of a route, I’m thinking we might stay to the east of the Pennines, avoiding busy airspace around Manchester; no point in going near there if it’s not necessary. Use Sheffield as a waypoint, then on to Wolverhampton. From there, down to Bristol, then on to Newquay. Johnm: I’d also thought of Perranporth as being possibly more suitable (i.e. cheaper) so may go for there rather than Newquay. If I read their website correctly, the total cost at Newquay would be £24 (£22 landing, £2 parking). Does anybody happen to know charges at Perranporth? My Pooley’s guide just says ‘reasonable’.

VMC: thanks, I’ve picked up your PM. I’ll be in touch.

Any further comments welcomed.

Tim

[Jan Olieslagers]

As an early ultralight pilot I am certainly not going to give you the ultimate advice. Still this one lesson I have learned the hard way: make sure to have a plan B for every single detail of your planning. Sooner or later you'll be glad to have it.

[24Carrot]

A long trip means several possible diversion airports, so have the plates. Personally I like to read the plate beforehand, and then for in-flight use I write down what I think is important, including how to find the arifield!

[Fly-by-Wife]

this is a trip that will run over two days, outbound early Saturday morning, returning the following day. There is a reason for this specific trip, that being a mate’s stag weekend.

Guaranteed to be cr*p weather then, at Newcastle, or Newquay or en-route. Or probably all 3. This is the UK, after all! :}

Plan B is... car? train?, bus?... Or miss the event?

Don't let the requirement to get there for a specific day and time "cloud" your judgement regarding the WX.

FBW

[Big Pistons Forever]

Guaranteed to be cr*p weather then, at Newcastle, or Newquay or en-route. Or probably all 3. This is the UK, after all! :}

Plan B is... car? train?, bus?... Or miss the event?

Don't let the requirement to get there for a specific day and time "cloud" your judgement regarding the WX.

FBW

How true ! When I was a PPL I used to joke that instead of watering the lawn I should just plan an X-country flight :{ Seriously though weather is the number one issue with longer VFR flights in light aircraft. All th other issues are planable but actual weather is what you see out the windshield. If you absolutely have to be someplace a good distance away on a certain day......take the airlines

[IO540]

I don't think this is a difficult trip at all from the planning point of view. I looked at the route and one thing I noticed was a slight lack of VORs, but the OP said he was interested in doing navaid tracking. Of course with a GPS it is easy and there are plenty of airways intersections which one can use as ready-made GPS waypoints (any half decent GPS will have these in its database).

One can do the route generally avoiding high ground, too, but flying on a hot summer day underneath the small white fluffy stuff (you can tell I never did the JAA ATPL ground school, but I do have the chart showing the 371 different cloud types on the wall in the downstairs loo) can be awfully rough, and one may well choose to fly above the layer, so I would plan the route where one can fly at say FL065.

Weather is the big issue, as stated above. A large high pressure area would help a lot (I flew UK to S. Spain in one of those in that amazing summer of 2003) but what is the chance of getting one over Newcastle? :) Maybe he will get lucky... One needs to sort this out with any passengers; if they "must" be back at work by a certain date then you can have a major issue. I have only narrowly avoided having to buy airline tickets for people in the past. In this case, the passenger being an instructor should be ok because he must know about this angle.

The route planning and the flying itself will be easy :)

As always, phone the destination before departing. In this case, the area is subject to rapid and unforecast fog formation so checking is vital.

[englishal]

my advice....start with a direct line and dogleg it a bit to avoid difficult CAS. Sometimes it only adds a minute or two to avoid CAS rather than transit, although for you it'd be a good experience.

Go as high as possible and route down over Wales. There is virtually no airspace over Wales so you get get reasonably high. If you feel comfortable then transit a straight line from the end of the LL route (if you go that way) to Newquay avoiding the danger area in Wales. I'd go at 8000' once clear of the LL route. Easy peasy route.

Going via Blackpool and to N wales (avoiding Liverpool to the west) does not add any time to the route if you wanted to go that way. You could stay at 3.4k from Blackpool to Wales then you are free to climb to FL145 if you want.

I reckon it would take about 2:30 to 2:45 in a PA28 with no wind.

[Rishy]

The weather is obviously something I can't plan for but in the case of bad weather I do have a plan B. There is a scheduled flight from Newcastle to Newquay that gets me to where I want to be for the time I need to be there.

Although I would be disappointed to have to cancel the trip in the case of bad weather, I wouldn't set off come what may. The planning stage will be useful and won't be time wasted if that were to happen.

Tim

[liam548]

Rishy,

Your route plan sounds almost exactly the same as mine.
I was not planning a stop en route though, but you are slightly further north than me.

Wolverhampton is a great airfield to stop at.

For me the most complex part of the route appears to be around Bristols busy airspace, before and after that looks fairly simple.

Liam

[englishal]

Bristol is easy. On your route you'll be west of Cardiff anyway so well clear and can pass by up to 9500 or more depending how far West you are. If you want to stay over land you can either transit Bristol zone or what I normally do is fly over Bath at < 3000 underneath their airspace (with a traffic service if poss).

[Johnm]

Your East side route from Newcastle via Sheffield and across to Ha'penny Green would be fine, Bristol are quite accommodating. Plan a route across their zone via the Chew Valley reservoir VRP. I came back to Kemble from Glenforsa that way last weekend 'cos the West coast weather was cr@p, so if I were you I'd have both options up my sleeve.