Ryanair Customer Care. (or not?)

[exeng]

Interesting statements from MOL in this guardiam aticle.

<a href="http://media.guardian.co.uk/marketingandpr/story/0,7494,628994,00.html" target="_blank">http://media.guardian.co.uk/marketingandpr/story/0,7494,628994,00.html</a>

One quote from the man goes like this.""Our position is simple. Generally speaking, we won't take any phone calls... because they keep you on the bl**dy phone all day," said Mr O'Leary."


Regards
Exeng

[Blackball]

As you say interesting comments from MOL, still he need not worry too much as Guvnor will always fly with him.

[Stampe]

Best not have a genuine complaint then (which of course is very likely!!)Better still don,t get mugged by the sad outfit to start with!!.

[Alt.cap]

Extraordinary, if accurately quoted.

Possibly MOL's first "Ratner" <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Devils Advocate]

Well imho - he's got it right, as in it's a hard-nosed business not a flying club - and having people in the office costs money.
So, perhaps a more pertinent question is not how many total pax the airlines carry, but what's the ratio of pax carried to complaints received, i.e. maybe that accounts for why BA need 2000, easyJ 45, and Buzz 19 - who knows ?! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

If you fly with the Ryans you know exactly what you're gonna get (and there is a clue, i.e. why's it so cheap), of course if you really feel the need to indulge in a post-flight write-in to moan that your in-flight sandwich was a bit ropey then it would probably be best to fly with BA (etc); ah but, and there's the rub, BA are savagely more expensive - so you pays yer money and you takes yer choice !

Ps. Can somebody remind me again of how many pax the UK airlines carried and how much money they made, per pax, as a % of revenue.....

[Knold]

When are people gonna stop being surprised and realise that if you pay £1 you get £1 worth?

[Best Western]

Coming from the man who called his passengers the "great unwashed"... this is rather lame!

[Idunno]

Of course it's true that 'you get what you pay for' and that MOL will always have that pat answer to any criticism. Hard to argue with it really.
However, I think that what he has to worry about in the long term is a kind of 'critical mass' of dissatisfaction being built up in the travelling public.
If he continues to be cavalier with peoples genuine difficulties the day may come when enough people have been messed around, or know someone whos been messed around so badly that they look more favourably on paying an extra tenner (? 15EU?) to his competition.
If the competition can keep the price differential to those levels and still provide a marginally better service than FR then MOL will have a big problem on his hands. And I think it's starting to happen already.

[trustno1]

Knold. You have a point when it comes to expectations regarding £1 fares but what about the people paying £200 to travel to Salzburg for example. What should their expectations be ?

[euroboy]

A few years ago when bmi was BM and they operated Diamond Service-one class cabin there were paxs who had paid high fares to those who had paid £69 return. All got the same. When the 2 class cabin was introducted the economy paxs felt they lost out and complained.

I flew Ryan Air in Nov 2000, and I paid 49p each way plus tax. The flight left on time and arrived on time. Service was basic, and on return poor. ie ran out of tea and coffee, cabin crews inexperience showed through. The aircraft was not clean, the tray table was dirty and mine came complete with childs artistic talents in wax crayon. The woman in front of me also had a dirty tray table, but sumed it up by saying to her friend "well what would you expect for 49p" and continued chatting to her friend.
Now. Replay the same situation onboard a BA, bmi, flight and I bet the cabin crew would have known about the dirty tray table and cleaned it.

[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: euroboy ]</p>

[mainfrog2]

euroboy - no I wouldn't I'd have got the CLEANERS to clean it.

[Big Tudor]

Euroboy - how would BA/MBI crew have known about dirty tray tables. I wasn't aware that telepathy was a cabin crew requirement !

[euroboy]

HA HA. The pax would tell the cabin crew the tray tables were dirty. And YES the crew would give `em a wipe over.
Bit difficult to call cleaners at 30000feet!

The point being its all to do with expections.

Just take a few seconds glance at a holiday brochure and they seem to promise the world. IFE etc.
Theres a website where paxs do a quick report on a flight they have been on.
Its interesting to see what jo public think. Like a Go flight. The paxs thought there was good leg room and the aircraft was in good nick, but there again it would be as the plane was from BA.
I don`t believe one 737 came from BA to Go.

Its down to expections!
The woman thought for 49p a dirty table was OK, but if she was flying BA or bmi (paying more of course) would she have excepted the dirty table?

[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: euroboy ]</p>

[Big Tudor]

Well, did you tell the FR crew that yr table was dirty and if so what was the response??

[euroboy]

Pointed out table dirty and the crew gave me a damp handtowel and I wiped the coffee tea marks off myself (in window seat)

[Kerosene Kraut]

Can an airline really exclude certain responsibilities by itself? No refund, no obligation to help?
Isn't this more like a standardized consumer's law thing valid for i.e. all airline pax in the EU? I know FR officially "discourages" pax from using connecting flights, "no refund for anything".
Just curious, KK.

[euroboy]

from previous post. Web sites

<a href="http://www.carsurvey.org/air/index.html" target="_blank">www.carsurvey.org/air/index.html</a>

<a href="http://www.airlinequality.com/index.htm" target="_blank">www.airlinequality.com/index.htm</a>

[Knold]

Trustno1
Seems a bit daft to travel with Private Ryan if you willing to pay £200...

[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Knold ]</p>

[christian_MD80]

From euroboy:

I flew Ryan Air in Nov 2000,... cabin crews inexperience showed through ...

Could you explain that for me please? Is it abt tea or safety?

Thx

christian

[euroboy]

Christain

First I must point out I`m not a pilot, but Cabin Crew. I`ve operated as crew since 1988, worked for 3 airlines, and held positions as cabin crew SEP and security trainer as well as No1 for over 10 years. Currently, with UK major as Main crew.
Everyone makes mistakes(which we learn from hopefully) and what seems nothing to me in the terms of a service on board an aircraft,could be a nightmare for less experienced cabin crew members.

I have flown with Ryan air 3 times in the last couple of years, and the crew all seem young there is a lack of more experienced crew. I would say the average age for cabin crew is 25. (pls correct me if I`m wrong)
When things are not going to plan with the service I have seen the No1 go into panic/snapping mode which has gone at both the other crew and paxs.

So on to the flight I posted about.

It was back in Nov 2001. Stansted-Perpignan.

Outbound, the crew were relaxed, cheerful and friendly. No1 pleasant and chatty and confident. Even though there were problems with his service. On leaving STN they didn`t have any white coffee. (they use prefilled cups of tea, coffee, with or without milk powder.)
The aircraft tray tables were dirty but crew fine went I ask to wipe it over.
The safety Demo was done too quickly and would have been confusing to anyone not familar to 737. ie There are 8 emergency exits on board this aircraft 2 at the rear 1 on the left and 1 on the right 4 overwing exits 2 on the left and 2 on the right and 2 doors at the front 1 on the left and 1 on the right. (read that with no punctuation and quickly with an Irish accent).

Perpigan-Stansted.
Boarding the aircraft the No1 clearly not happy. Young lady with possibly a lot on her shoulders.
Service was more of a chore (and almost gave the attitude of "God Passengers! They are thick)
There was No tea of coffee left for the return flight. Only hot chocolate. The rear bev maker was u/s and sitting in the mid cabin section I knew about it OK, as the crew grumbled about it and the No1 had to go back to the fwd galley again. No1 was close to picking on a newer member of crew as the flight continued. No1 was getting rather snappy and moved themselves from the service. The tax free sales were done with the STN express train tickets which caused confussion with the paxs, and any questions regarding the train service was met with either buy a ticket or not. Crew did not know the exchange rate. franc was quoted at 3.20 something to the pound. This was corrected when queried by the pax. The crew than handed back too much change.
Landing back at STN late afternoon (its dark) the No1 is in the forward galley with money and paperwork everywhere. No Good bye. Head well into the paperwork. As I went down the UNLITE airstairs I noticed a dark cord which was tired to the left handside airstair handrail at ground level with was connected to an object by the wing. I through a little dangerous as the aircraft was bright going into darkness.
If a paxs slipped and fell the No1 would have not been aware.

So leading on from this. If this was the type of service and this caused the No1 to behave in this manner, what would they be like in a different situation?

[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: euroboy ]</p>

[exeng]

Ryanair bashed again, this time in todays Evening Standard. Please see link below.

<a href="http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/news/business_story.html?in_review_id=487634&in_review_text_id=444466" target="_blank">http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/news/business_story.html?in_review_id=487634&in_review_text_id=444466</a>

Something about complaints from the public about unclear advertising. Surely can't be true can it as MOL seems such a sincere sort of chap?


Regards
Exeng

[HugMonster]

Hmmmm - "Every seat on every flight" in MOL's book means only Tuesdays, Wenesdays and Thursdays. Is this man a crook, or is he just a cheap crook?

[Tommyhawk]

Have just used Buzz for the first time Stansted-Lyon and return . Both Departures exactly on time,
Smiles and excellent service from ALL crew in abundance and everything spotlessly clean..All for £80 return each in Christmas week!..Fair to say I'll use them again. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[World Traveller]

I have also had the very very fast safety demo, on a BHX-DUB flight, by a crew of three who were unbelievably miserable. I couldn't follow it, but thankfully I'm reasonably familiar with the 737-200. Same as the experience above, the return crew were very pleasant an seemed interested in their jobs.

As a punter I do not expect the fake smiles etc etc that some airlines feel the need to convey, but common courtesy costs nothing. Hell, if the poor CC have to say hello to 150 punters, the least I can do is return the greeting!

I also find the stampede for the free seating all very silly, and very offputting.

I did respect MOL but I think the costcutting/minimal staff levels (not to mention the new pilot paying to apply process) has gone too far. The FR/MOL bubble will burst.

Long may Babs and Stelios have a 1,000 737s each and rule the (European) airways <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

World Traveller
&lt;Haway ah gan&gt;

(edited to remove massive-and stupid- assumption)

[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: World Traveller ]</p>

[schwabn]

World traveller,

Babs will be gone in the not all too distant future and Stellios and MOL will split the market between them. Buzz is an insignificant player that can safely be ignored.

Just do remember that FR policy is to fly you cheap and reliably. That's exactly what they're doing and they are right to sacrifice over the top levels of customer care for lower fares, which at the end of the day benefit the travelling public. FR also recommends you book travel insurance covering you for these eventualities.

[brain fade]

Ryanair are not always as cheap as they seem. Our party of 3 paid £23.50 (return) PIK-STN each. Fair enough. Return leg, checked in 59.5 minutes before STD to be told (along with many others) 'you are late, the captain won't take you, your ticket is cancelled!' NB our mistake was to stand at the Ticket desk, which wasn't, obviously(?) the check in desk. Many furious pax arguing with the check in staff who plainly were very used to this. I asked how it could be that the Captain could say he wouldn't take us when at that moment the a/c not yet arrived? everyone mightily pi**ed off, we all paid an extra £25 to be home much later. An Irish chap paid his by cheque which he vowed to stop as soon as he got home. We all know Ryanair is cheap. They can also be rude. They can be un cooperative. Deliberate sharp practice is company policy. When you fly with Ryanair remember they will try to squeeze you for a few quid extra if they can and they dont care if they never see you again once they have done so. and in my case they never will again. This is a policy that has sent many a good company down the toilet, as there is a finite number of people out there willing to be mugged twice!

[Knold]

Like I wrote earlier, when are people gonna realise that there is no magic going on at FR. They have the same costs as everybody else (in general that is, excluding the subsidies they got in Belgium).
If you pay squat you are gonna get squat.
Just because it’s called air travel don’t necessarily make it the same air travel as the regular airlines you’re used to provide.

I’m not saying it’s a bad idea Ryan has, it’s a great thing for backpackers and so on, just don’t expect any more.

[Lee Palmers]

Did anyone on PPRUNE also know that at Luton one of the Cabin Crew girls does the gate, I would have thought their time would be better spent pre-paring the aircraft for the next sector. Many times you see them running out at last minute, up the stairs, door shuts & plane pushes.

[HugMonster]

Knold, in the first place, Ryanair are not exactly cheap. Furthermore, customer care costs little and goes a long way to encouraging the passengers to use you again. But if all you're interested in is making a quick buck, then sod 'em.

Otherwise, good news about service people have received travels quite fast, but not nearly as fast as complaints from friends, relatives, business associates etc. about the p!ss poor service they got, and how "if I were you, I'd never use this cr@p outfit"...

I suspect that Ryanair's days are numbered, and their demise will hurt everyone except MO'L. Where he differs from Herb Kelleher is that Southwest was founded on the principle of providing a service. Ryanair don't care about providing a service, just about making money, and wouldn't recognise a principle if it bit 'em on the leg.

[Knold]

Well I don't know if their days are numbered altogether but this attitude won't make 'em last forever that’s for sure.

BTW Hug, what’s a UB40 :) :) :)

[TDK mk2]

A friend flew EDI-DUB with FR last friday and was harrassed at checkin for having 6kg of carryon and then at the gate for being late at 18:20 for a departure time of 18:35. Funny how EZ can accept checkin for international flights up to 30 mins before departure and FR use the 60 min rule as an excuse to bump pax and make them pay for another flight.

Not to even start on their recruitment policy it's fair to say that I for one will not be climbing the stairs of anything with a harp on the tail in any capacity...

P.S. I think Ms Cassani might have something to say about the contention that she will be 'gone in the not all too distant future' but whatever you think Mr Irishman.

[christian_MD80]

@euroboy!

Thats what I expected. Thanks for the answer, which triggered some more details about their level of service.

Safety is not expressed in Pound/Euro, therefor not needed???

Take care!

Christian

[World Traveller]

Fokker in sight - I think FR cc do the gate everywhere. I've seen it at DUB, STN and, erm, Nykoping. There is normally a regular gate agent alongside.

WT
&lt;just a punter&gt;