North Atlantic Crossing Experience in Caravan 208B? What is this?

[Spanner748]

I need to ferry one aircraft from French West Indies to Asia. But I have been told that only pilots having North Atlantic crossing experience can ferry this aircraft. What is this requirement actually and who will seek this information during the course of ferry flight? USA will not approve flight plan if the pilot is not experienced with Atlantic crossing? What is it anyways? I really do not understand it. Please help me to understand this issue. Thanks in advance!

[MarkerInbound]

You should probably look at a map. A Caravan will go feet wet in Canadian airspace. The Canadians have regulations for for North Atlantic ferry flights found here Backgrounder: Safety of Small Aircraft Flying Across the North Atlantic - Backgrounders - Backgrounders, Reports and Info Sheets - Media Room - Transport Canada (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/backgrounders-airnorthatlantic-5412.htm) which are based on the North Atlantic International Operations Manual found here http://www.nat-pco.org/nat/CurrentNAT%20IGA.pdf Neither of these require the pilot to have made a prior crossing.

There are plenty of companies that have experience in North Atlantic ferries and can cover the FWI-Scotland or just Canada-Scotland leg for you.

[julian_storey]

The issue is likely to be with getting insurance if you have no previous trans Atlantic experience.

[ferrydude]

FAA has no requirement for this trip, you would not be entering MNPS airspace with a van. No CAA will ask about your previous experience on a North Atlantic route. As posted earlier, this is an insurance requirement, and they will most likely want more than one previous crossing to cover you.

Depending on country of aircraft registry, it might be easier to tank it and route via Cape Verde.

Either way, this is an easy trip. Slow, but easy.:)

[jxc]

I would love to offer my help never done it before and only a PPL but I am sure I can help somehow

[Spanner748]

How a foreign registered aircraft (say Asian registration) allowed to fly over North Atlantic from French West Indies to Asia. Who regulates the flights? Lets say the aircraft meets all the safety requirements as prescribed by Transport Canada and FAA? Can we just take off from the origin and fly en route via USA and Canada?

[BackPacker]

Spanner, are you a pilot and are you being asked to ferry the aircraft, or are you an owner/operator, but not a pilot yourself, and are you organizing the ferry?

The answers you've been given so far assume you're a pilot yourself, but now that I re-read your first and second question, I get the feeling the latter case is what's going on.

If that's indeed the case, here's a very quick rundown of the legal situation. (Otherwise ignore...)

Under the ICAO agreements, if you have a combination of a pilot with a pilots license issued by country X (PPL and up) and an aircraft on a Certificate of Airworthiness issued by the same country X (and thus the nationality marks of that country X written on the side), then this combination is accepted for flight in any airspace, worldwide.

So in your case the aircraft is Asian and the pilot needs to have an appropriate license, issued or accepted by the same Asian authorities.

But... The airspace the aircraft is flying in may have additional restrictions, set by the authority/country that ownes the airspace.

In this particular case, for the North Atlantic ferry, the Canadians have set minimum equipment levels (mostly safety/survival related) but, most importantly, minimum insurance requirements. See the link from MarkerInbound.

You therefore need to arrange insurance. And the typical insurer will require experience with North Atlantic ferry flying before they'll insure a pilot for this leg. Although there are examples of pilots with no prior experience who got insurance nevertheless. Or who flew their own (fully paid for) plane and simply decided to do without hull insurance for the trip, only rescue/3rd party. (You might for instance want to contact Sam Rutherford by PM. Sam flew a Maule across with no prior crossing experience and found insurance for the trip. But if you use the (hopeless) search function of this forum you might get more names.)

I don't know in what stage your planning is, but I would suggest that for the Canada-Scotland leg at the very least you enlist the help of one of the numerous ferry flight companies. Not only do they have experienced pilots that meet the insurance requirements, but they are also able to provide you with all the survival gear you legally need for this leg.

[ferrydude]

How a foreign registered aircraft (say Asian registration) allowed to fly over North Atlantic from French West Indies to Asia. Who regulates the flights? Lets say the aircraft meets all the safety requirements as prescribed by Transport Canada and FAA? Can we just take off from the origin and fly en route via USA and Canada?

The flight is regulated by both the country of aircraft registry, and the country(s) having authority over the airspace transited.

Yes

[Spanner748]

Hello BackPacker,
You have finally put the lid on my quest! Thanks much! I am not a pilot but I am arranging a ferry for an airline.
I shall try to talk to Sam Rutherford regarding his experience during his ferry flight.

[ferrydude]

Best of luck with that. While it is not uncommon for an underwriter to cover a first time crossing for a pilot in an owned aircraft, it would be extremely unlikely for them to cover an individual undertaking a first time crossing as a commercial venture.

[Sam Rutherford]

Interesting point about doing it as the owner, and doing it on behalf of someone else - this might change the insurance angle; only way is to ask!

For anyone having difficulty sleeping :); the blog of our flight is on the aviation page of www.prepare2go.com (http://www.prepare2go.com).

Safe flights all, Sam.

[Spanner748]

So how many have actually done North Atlantic Crossing in Grand Caravan?

[cjm_2010]

sam, I just read through your transatlantic blog. amazing stuff :ok:

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Spanner748;

I have, several times. The first time was with the owner of a ferry company which took care of all future insurance requirements (ie cheaper premiums, prior expereience etc) The trip is easy if you are careful, just a long, back achey one. Eventually I did 19 solo single engine crossings, now I do it at flight level nose bleed, at M.veryfast with a co sharing the crossword and nice ladies bringing me tea and biccies, having done the single engine stuff I am very proud of it in my logbook, but I'm not sure I would want to put my back through it again.

SND

[ferrydude]

So how many have actually done North Atlantic Crossing in Grand Caravan?

Multiple:ok: