How good is your IMC

[200V AC, 3 Phase, 400 Hz]

I have had the IMC rating now for about 3 years I fly in the south of the UK from a small flying club and Bournemouth and Southampton. I am amazed at the number of people who think that the IMC rating is a get you out of jail card and not a very useful qualification to have and use. Is it just me or do you IMC holders fly IFR in the UK when the weather is not to hot. And I am talking about overcast at 1000 ft with no forcast reduction and no ice conditions. Am I being silly or are there that many people out there that do the rating never use it and then hope that the one time they get in the SH*T that it will save them.

Over to you? :eek:

[Fuji Abound]

I reckon there are a large number of people with an IMC who are not current and do not use the rating. Most, recognise their limitations, and whilst they might use the rating typically to cross a high overcast to fly VFR on top, not many fly hard IFR. Seems to me that unless you have the opportunity to remain current, maybe because you are in a group or have other friends with which to fly to help you remain confident, many simply do not keep up the skills after gaining the rating. Of course, the longer they leave it the more rustly they become and hopefully the more reluctant to fly in IMC. I would certainly be interested in others views also.

[200V AC, 3 Phase, 400 Hz]

Fuji
I think you are spot on, what about pilots motivation to get the rating in the first place. Do people think of it as a saftey rating or a gona use it rating. I think people get the rating and think they are only going to use it when things get bad, I am not saying everyone should fly in IMC all the time but a least one instrument approach a month, would you agree?.....

[Fuji Abound]

200V

Well, I think many do the rating because of the challenge and it seems the next logical step to take. I think also some think, before doing the rating, that it will allow them to fly in most any weather, and that is a pretty nice idea in Europe. I think having done the IMC many find that the course really is not adequate to give confidence using their new skills. Maybe some of the risks of flying IMC in the typical light single, viz. no de-icing, no weather radar or storm scope, single vac system, single AI, on the whole poor LARS coverage, all begin to sink in as well. Sad to say in my opinion the IMC is probably correctly billed as a get you out of trouble rating, but if you wish it can enable you to go on to develop your skills to a level much nearer an IR if you are prepared to and can get the help to do so. Even sader to say that the availability of sensible progression to an IR seems to have been pretty much closed off to PPLs - but that is another story. Flying IMC seems to me to be more about risk management than almost anything else - I wonder how many people who fly IMC regularly down to mins. as you suggest, would cope with a vac pump failure, followed by a missed approach and back into the procedure? Sounds pretty horrible to me!!

With regards to currency I personally try and do an approach a month, more often NDB / DME but a G/S whenever I can. I have also found picking up a plate every so often (when not flying) and making sure the old brain is able to digest it on the spur so to speak helps the interpretation skills for that unexpected diversion.

My two greatest fears are an engine failure in IMC with low mins. and unexpected CB's - but I guess that is everones - is it?

[ 24 September 2001: Message edited by: Fuji Abound ]

[adriannorris]

I've had my IMC for just over a year. Would I use it to fly IFR with a 1000ft ceiling with no forecast improvement? No!

I got my PPL in Holland, where at the time one needed 10 hours instrument training. After that and the 15 hours IMC course, I'm quite confident that I can keep control when everything is going well. But I'm under no illusions that I don't have a lot of skill in reserve if anything starts going wrong. Could I plan a diversion and fly an NDB approach in IMC after a vacuum pump failure, in a plane with no autopilot? I wouldn't like to have to try.

I've found the IMC rating great for giving me the confidence to fly in marginal VFR conditions. It's also nice to fly above a (thin) layer of cloud, and reassuring to know that I can fly an instrument approach if I have to (although I'd normally try to avoid it). But I don't think it really prepares a low-time pilot to fly safely in poor weather.

There also seem to be a lot of variations in how the IMC rating is taught. In Holland, only instructors with full IRs could teach the instrument flying part of the course. As far as I am aware, there isn't any such requirement for an IMC instructor, and the standards that different instructors require seems to vary quite a bit.

Wouldn't it be great to have an accessable instrument rating? Maybe one day.....

[Final 3 Greens]

This is a personal view, based on my own attitude to risk; it is not an attack on the IMC rating nor those who use it.

I fly about 15-20 hours per year (30 in a good one) and thus cannot fly the a/c without conscious thought as a result of this low amount of practice.

Therefore I plan and fly in good VMC; if it is marginal I make a firm no go decision.

If the weather does something unexpected I will either divert to the nearest airfield or turn back, whichever is appropriate.

I do fly regularly with instructors to ensure that I can generaly handle the a/c in IMC, with the plan being a 180 into VMC.

However, I know that my low time (with gaps sometimes) would impact on my spatial and situational awareness in IMC, thus my view.

I could get an IMC rating easily enough (AN instructors view) but maintaining safe currency would be the issue - and if you don't use it, you'll lose it.

Once again, this is not a dig at others, but a response to the initial question.

[Chilli Monster]

200V

I've just renewed mine for the second time. Every flight I plan I plan as a possible IMC/IFR flight - why? Because it's ideal for getting on top when you can, where the the traffic is less, and it's the only way you can legally do it.

A good example came about last April, on a trip to Le Touquet. From my operating base (EGBN) the best way is through the Stansted, Luton Gap. Cloud was between 1200 & 2000 ft, hazy below. HOWEVER - on top, routing BKY - BPK - LAM at 2400' I could carry out the flight quite safely, without infringeing Luton or Stansted, and without trying to crawl underneath the Stansted stub at 1400' in the murk. Where I was it was cloud below and beautifully blue skies above.

I've used it to fly constant IMC as well, but after about half an hour it starts getting tiring unless it's smooth.

The answer has to be 'know your limitations'. For some it will be a get out of trouble rating. I was taught it by a guy who would teach it to almost IR standards - for that I will always be grateful, as I've had to use it to fly approaches to IMC minima - providing I stay current then I'll always feel happy to use it.

CM

[skywatcher]

This is a topic that keeps cropping up. I feel as others have said already that if you plan your trip properly and are current in instrument flying then it shold not be a problem. Taking off VFR flying into deteriorating conditions is not what the IMC or instrument conditions is about. I have heard some instructors say all it is for is to do a 180 and get back out of the crud. Isn't that what we did the instrument appreciation for? If you have an IMC rating get current stay current and plan thoroughly for the trip with suitable diversions and fuel requirements. Once you become proficient and confident you will benifit from the rating. However as winter is now approaching watch the ice problem as most singles we fly aren't allowed in it or equipped for it. Be sensible and enjoy it a well flown approach on instruments is v satisfying. Stay safe Stay alive.

[AC-DC]

The CAA will tell you that IMC is to help you to get out of troubles if you have entered them, not to look for them on purpose.
I have IMC (lapsed) and it did help me out, admittedly, it was hard to keep altitude and direction but without the IMC it could be much harder, I mean the impact.

[BEagle]

Chilli Monster - how true! The Bovingdon - Lambourne - Dover route is a well known cross-channel route and the ability to operate safely and confidently either VFR on top as you did or 'in and out of the tops' as I did some years ago is what an IMC Rating is for, in my view. But the abject failure of Lootnairpawt to provide a RIS on this route when circumstances require it is the biggest compromise to flight safety! ATS outside RAS at the weekend is woefully inadequate, particularly in the busy south east of the UK!

[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]

[Final 3 Greens]

BEagle

If you are on top or in and out of the tops on an IMC BOV/LAM/DVR, what happens when you reach mid channel?

[BEagle]

Regrettably you have to go down through a hole and scrape around underneath under VFR. I wouldn't have bothered to go if I hadn't been able to fly VFR in France!! You make a good point - the IMC rating has no validity outside the UK FIR. I have indeed scraped along underneath cloud in France wishing I could just climb up through the obvious holes to VMC-on-top; however, dastardly Johny Foreigner will not permit such a thing.........!! But I'd sooner cancel a day's outing than shell out the ridiculous amount of money needed for a JAA SP IR - having to bug ger about doing an NDB let down at some obscure French aerodrome just to get there for lunch just isn't worth that!

[carbheatcold]

I have had my IMC for 3 years and fall into the 'its there to get me out of trouble brigade' although I do try and keep in some sort of practise although no where near one instrument approach a month.
I certainly would not go flying if the vis was 5km or less with a cloud base of less than 1200'. The reason I choose these self set minimums is that should everything go pair shape I want to give myself the best chance of doing something about it. The lower you see the ground the easier to get it wrong - but that is my own opinion, add to that partial panel and real unusual attitudes, without an instructor is not really for me.