Who uses electronic means of approach plate display?

[IO540]

This is common in the USA, where the plates are essentially free.

For Europe, one is stuck with either Jepp, or the free national plates which most countries publish.

The only Jepp platform I know of is SolidFX (http://www.solidfx.com/FX8.htm) but PDF plates can be displayed on all kinds of stuff e.g. the Amazin Kindle DX.

But - unlike paper - one needs a backup for an electronic device...

[7AC]

I've been using the Solid FX8 for a month now and like it very much.
I had an issue with the updates in the beginning but since it has been excellent.
I am waiting with interest for the winter to see how readable it will be with cockpit
lighting.
I used to use an iRex but that is now relegated to backup as well as the MX20.
The 35 lb. weight reduction is nice not to mention not having to climb over the five
Jepp. manuals.

[S-Works]

I use an iPad and a solidFx. iPad is better generally. SolidFX is no good in the dark as it is not backlit being liquid paper. In practice though all I do is read the FAF and DA etc and then get on with flying the approach.

[IO540]

I've been using the Solid FX8 for a month now and like it very much.

Are you using it with the US plates, or with Jepp plates?

If the latter, what is the update process? Does it involve a PC, or does the Kindle download the data directly and if so, how? Does the download website just deliver the paid-for coverage, or do you enter coverage codes like in the PC version?

I think the FX8 hardware is actually made by Irex, and a while ago I knew exactly but cannot find it right now.

I used to have the Irex Iliad but it is long gone. The stupid buttons which their PDF reader had on the bottom of every page reduced the area available to display the typical approach plate in the worst possible way, to a level where I needed glasses to read it ;) There was a replacement PDF reader around but one could not install any software on the Iliad (which was basically an ARM based unix platform) without a special code obtained from Irex and this was too much hassle.

[7AC]

IO540,
I use the Fx8 with Jeppesen European charts, the unit comes with the charts preloaded when you buy.
You connect it to a PC on which you have Jeppesen services loaded and the update precedure is straight-forward.
You pay about €70 per annum to update this way through your Jeppview subscription.
The FX-8 is indeed made by iRex.
I tried for ages to find a way of putting the charts on the Iliad but to no avail.
I still carry the Iliad with the avionics manuals etc. loaded and just one big file with
the relevant countries on a Compact Flash card. Tedious, but better than nothing if the
FX-8 falls over.

[Fuji Abound]

But both avidyne and garmin use the jepp plates. Are you excluding glass cockpits.

[IO540]

No, I am interested in any electronic approach plate display usage.

There is of course a huge step-up in cost from somebody displaying the free national plates on say an e-book reader or the ipad, and somebody displaying Jepps on an MFD where you have to pay £2000/year for the European VFR and IFR coverage.

I am sure a lot of people have the latter capability (at least retrofittable into anything with a G1000 or similar) but I bet few are willing to pay the going rate.

[m_cudin]

hi all, maybe I'm a little bit out of topic but I need some info regarding e-charts and jeppesen products. I've tried to understand more looking at jepp website but I still have some doubts.
I'm a private pilot flying almost in VFR, a couple of months ago I've bought the FliteStar VFR (Europe) for flight planning purposes. Well, once installed I've noticed that in this software package aerodrome and terminal charts are not included. Then I've seen another software, the Jeppview. It seems that this instrument is a flight planner PLUS a chart database and, of course, viewer. So is it Jeppview more complete than Flitestar or does it perform other activities and both together are required for a complete set of flight planning and aerodrome charting?
More easily, what should I buy in order to have the aerodrome charts on my Flitestar software? the costs of jeppview plus the required chart package are tremendous!! I've spento something like 150€ for Flitestar, I don't like so much the idea to spend other 150€ ONLY for Jeppview software PLUS other money for the chart database, depending on area coverage that one wants to buy. Moreover, jeppesen is pushing a lot to sell e-charts instead paper version (the old bottlang manual, to say...) especially pointing on the environment impact that papaer charts have. Well, i really appreciate this, but when I see that a paper manual + 1 year revision service costs me half of the price compared with the electronic version...well...I think that Jeppesen has made some mistakes somewhere!!! I mean, for sure the e-charts are more reliable and easy to use...but if the price is double than paper version, for sure a private pilot would choose the cheaper option, isn't it??

I really hope that someone can help me to clarify my doubts...

thanks in advance and happy landings to everybody!!!!

[S-Works]

You need both, Flitestar does the planning and Jeppview gives you the detail on the airfields and procedures. Flitestar calls up the Jeppview data from within the app, so whilst you have Jeppview installed you will rarely ever actually run it as Flitestar calls the data that it needs from the Jeppview data base.

I have extracted the Jepp plates both VFR and IFR in .pdf files which are viewed via good reader on my iPad. I prefer the iPad over the SolidFX as it gives more functionality in a single device, reducing the need for extra chargers etc when travelling and reducing my weight footprint. Especially important when doing one way flights like ferry flights where the return baggage has to be considered!! Think the thieving Irish airline here......

[IO540]

Flitestar is the flight planning program.

Jeppview 3 is the approach plate program. It has some primitive route planning facilities but is ultimately crippled by the inability to generate a plog.

Jeppview 3 has a "VFR charts" option which as far as I can tell is a replacement for the old printed Bottlang guides.

Jepp pricing has always been controversial but they are seemingly unable to charge less because they price is set for their commercial users who pay some £3000/year for a worldwide package. Even the all-Europe package is about £2k. So GA gets screwed.

Unlike in the USA, the European CAAs have published their free plates in a large A4 format which is not very cockpit-usable, thus playing into the hands of the Jepp monopoly. I once asked the CAA man why they do this and his reply was that they are not in the business of competing with commercial data providers!

If you want cheap approach plates, you can make friends with commercial pilots (which a lot of people do ;) ) or you can use the free ones which most European countries publish on their national CAA websites. The latter are not very good, partly due to a lack of standardisation in the symbology.

Paper data is no cheaper than electronic data and is a bit pointless these days. The updating alone is a big waste of time and that is just for the UK.

Back to the subject of electronic plates, what worries me is the backup situation if the electronic device packs up, which is obviously a possibility for that, but not for paper.

[S-Works]

Back to the subject of electronic plates, what worries me is the backup situation if the electronic device packs up, which is obviously a possibility for that, but not for paper.

I tend to use the electronic device as a backup to the paper. I print the plates that I need and clip them to the yoke. I then have the electronic device as a backup. The GPS has the procedure and all I really need is the basic numbers for FAF, MAP etc.

[1800ed]

I've been RHS quite a few times in Cirrus' with the
Avidyne setup which displays approach charts. Very cool, but I don't think this thread is really about that kind of system.

[Tinstaafl]

FX8 blurb says it has a PDF reader. You could forgo renewing the Jepp. subscription that it comes with and download the chart PDFs you need from the various authorities. Viewing them on the FX8 or other PDF reader would take care of A4 page size issues too. It might be a bit of pain having to download the charts all the time, compared to updating a Jepp. electronic chart package.

I'm rather tempted by the FX8. I'd probably use it as my primary approach chart source & carry a limited number of downloaded & printed charts as a back up.

It doesn't have a backlight so cockpit lighting that can illuminate it is necessary. I'd like it to have a user controlled LED backlight. That way I could choose how I wanted to use it at night (or in aircraft with less-than-convenient cockpit lighting sources).

[S-Works]

It doesn't have a backlight so cockpit lighting that can illuminate it is necessary. I'd like it to have a user controlled LED backlight. That way I could choose how I wanted to use it at night (or in aircraft with less-than-convenient cockpit lighting sources).

The liquid paper technology does not work with a backlight, it is a front lit technology only, hence the reason non of the readers have a backlight.....

[IO540]

FX8 blurb says it has a PDF readerThe FX8 hardware appears to be a standard PDF e-book reader like the other Irex products, but I don't think this is how the Jepp packaging is implemented, because if the FX8 simply carried a load of Jepp plates in PDF form, you could share them with anybody else very easily, and Jepp don't want that. So I think the FX8 product runs a custom rendering program for the proprietary format used in the Jepp plates (which are vector-based and thus not that different from PDF, but much more efficient than the ultra bloated PDF format). As an example, a whole-world subscription for Jeppview 3 comes on two CDs i.e. under 1.2GB which having seen some Jepp plates as PDFs I estimate is an order of magnitude more compact than the PDF equivalent. Also, obviously, one could not update the sub via a download... not if the download was 10GB.

What I don't know is whether the FX8 retains its old e-book functionality i.e. whether one could run e.g. the ATP maintenance manuals on it. I have one of these for the TB20 - about 500MB of PDFs.

From what I hear from the USA, the FX8 is the best implementation of a handheld "EFB" currently on the market. But the Jepp sub is awfully pricey - if you don't have a Jepp sub for the required area already.

I don't see a non-backlit reader a major issue because one needs a bit of light in a cockpit anyway, and one certainly needs light to see paper printouts :)

I have flown with various display devices and apart from poor sunlight readability the major issue was as night: being unable to set the backlight to a brightness exactly appropriate to the ambient conditions. Most backlit LCD devices don't go dim enough.