Confidence / Time Commitiment?

[You want it when?]

Help people!

I've been a PPL stude since the start of July and despite some rotten WX I've managed to get to 11 hours. To do this I've taken days off work (on the assumption of getting at least 4 hours) and only got 1.5, spent most of a Saturday at the airport and only got 2 hours. The bird has broke down a couple of times - "just cycle the switch and hit the CB" - great when do we cover flapless landings?.

OK - 11 hours down not a lot, landings are still pathetic no solo in sight, we're into some major evolutions at work so weekend flying is severely curtailed, and the remaining 2001 holiday time I need for family commitments.

Should I ask for my money back (about £600 being held) and concentrate on ground school and start afresh next year- either at the same school or in the Sates? Perhaps the odd hour familiarisation flight through winter?

Confidence - I accept I'm very early in the course to "give up" but as I see it I'm not sure I'm ever going to enjoy this, I don't want to widow / orphan my family and the only way to ensure I don't do that is to retain high currency - mostly solo to ensure if I do run out of air only I get hurt. Even assuming I do stay current what about a circuit mid-air or running into something I just can't cope with - severe windshear or an engine fire? In 11 hours flying and 2 months of PPRuNing I am starting to get worried about this - a little knowledge - I guess. I know training will help, but every flight must therefore have an element of concentrated learning PFL / EFATO etc.. when do I get to stop, relax and enjoy?

Mrs YWIW also has started to hint that I'm spending too much time away from her. Weekdays I'm gone by 06:30 and return at 20:00ish and then one day each weekend I'm gone by 09:00 returning at 16:00 with a grin and more incomprehensible stories. She still supports me but the cost and time are starting to be noticed.

Any one else run into these sort of issues? Do I just not want it enough? Any amateur (or not) psychologists out there want to help? :)

[FlyingForFun]

YWIW,

You're right, flying is supposed to be fun, and if you're not enjoying it, something is wrong.

Take a step back, and think about what you're doing. Do you actually not enjoy flying? Do you really believe that an engine fire is sufficiently likely that it's causing you anxiety?

I think you'll find the answer to both questions is No. I believe your problem is that you're trying to get a PPL. IMHO, that's not the correct way of going about it. What I think you should be doing is trying to enjoy yourself for an hour a week.

What that means is book an aeroplane each weekend, and keep your fingers crossed. Some weekends you'll go flying, some weekends you won't. That's life - it won't be any different after you get your PPL, so why should you expect it to be different now?

"But that will mean it takes ages to get my PPL." Yes. So what? If the aim is to enjoy yourself for an hour each week (weather permitting), then you're acheiving your aim, even if it takes 12 months or more to get your PPL.

And once you've got the PPL, nothing will really change. You'll still book the aircraft each weekend (you'll probably have progressed from one hour flights to two hour flights by then) You'll head down to the airfield and go flying. You can take your choice of passenger with you, and you can go where you want instead of where your instructor tells you to go, but that's about the only difference.

Stop spending all weekend at the airfield. Stop taking weeks off work, because if the weather is bad you'll regret it. Book your slot, and if the weather's no good, try again next weekend. If the weather's good, excellent, you can spend another hour doing one of the most amazing things that Mrs YWIW will ever let you do without her!

(Also, bear in mind that learning to land is not easy. You will be disappointed, and it's very easy to just give up. Things do start to become more interesting again soon, especially when you get close to solo - but in the mean time, every time you park, think about what you enjoyed about the flight. "Hey, the vis was amazing today, I could almost see the coast!" "Hey, that third landing I did today was perfect!" "What d'you know, I actually did all the run-up checks without my instructor commenting on the fact that I'd missed something today!" This will help you enjoy the least enjoyable part of learning to fly.)

But above all - make sure you have fun!

Take care, but don't thow in the towel just yet - at least, not without thinking it through rationally first.

FFF
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[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

It depends on how much you want to do it. I know that probably doesn't help, since you are keen enough to have got this far, but feel as though you still at the foot of the mountain.

I wonder whether your 'time management' could be improved to reduce the time you are away from home? It's a while ago, but I remember when I was doing the PPL course I very much had to 'manage' the school. Phone before you leave home; if the aeroplane's U/S or the weather doubtful, don't be afraid to cancel and save the money and time for a better day.

One thing I would say is don't worry about the safty aspect. It can happen to any of us, but mercifully it's rare and very much under your own control - unlike motor accidents where you can be killed by the HGV whose driver fell asleep through fatigue. When I became a dad many years ago I contemplated giving it up, but it's important to keep a sense of proportion. I'm certainly very glad I didn't give up.

If you are really not enjoying it, it may be better to stop. But it's normal to feel a bit overwhelmed at the point in the training you're at. It gets better after solo - a real confidence boost and probably closer than you think. If you can see *any* light at the end of the tunnel, stick at it ;~)

Hope this helps.

SSD

[Lawyerboy]

It all really comes down to whether you enjoy it/why you want to do it. If you're not enjoying it at the moment ask yourself why? Is it because you just don't like flying, or is it because you don't feel as though you're getting anywhere?

If you're getting despondent at your lack of progress, ask yourself if 11 hours ago you would have been able to do what you do now. You may be surprised by just how much you've picked up.

I'm in much the same boat; I've been at it since 1995 (still only on about 40 hours), my wife has, many times, shared her feelings with me about feeling somewhat widowed (I work all hours God sends and when I'm not working I'm at an airfield trying to fly), and on a regular basis I've felt I'm never going to get anywhere, my landings are crap, I can't get the hang of PFLs, and so on.

What makes it all worth it, though, is the fact that as soon as I land and switch the magnetos off I feel like I want to get back up in the air again. Not a day goes past when I don't look up at a passing aircraft and think 'I wish I were up there.'

Not everyone has natural ability, not everyone will be going solo in 5 hours (took me 27 odd), and not everyone has the luxury of time off work and unlimited funds. Don't give up now, not just because of a perceived lack of progress learning to do something actually quite difficult in a country not at all suited to pilot training. I first really started enjoying myself when I got to circuits and found, quite by surprise, that I was capable of getting round them all on my toddle. I don't mean when I went solo, just that could see it was me flying and not my instructor. It's a realisation that creeps up on you, and what a wonderful moment it is when it does.

As regards Mrs YWIW, if flying is something you truly want to do then not doing it will cause more heartache in the long run than any hiccups over time and cost now. And as you say, she does still support you. I've been lucky, and my wife is actually very supportive. In fact when I'd almost given up on the idea of ever taking my flying any further than a PPL it was she that convinced me to say to hell with doubt and despondency, and just to go for it. I now have a class 1 initial coming up at the end of the month, I've started to book two hour lessons instead of one hour ones, as soon as I get my PPL I'll be starting ATPL g/s.

On a practical note, unless you're planning on going off to the US to do an intensive PPL course I'd hold off doing any exams until the last minute; they're only valid for one year and with our weather there's no guarantee if you start taking them now that you won't have to sit them again by the time you're ready to do the skills test.

A bit of a ramble, I know, but hope it helps :D .

LB.

[Fuji Abound]

Firstly, I found with all training, with the best will in the world you need to manage your training organisation as much as they manage your flying. I therefore agree with the earlier writer: Check the aircraft is back and serviceable before you leave for the airport, check that the weather is expected to be OK, check the FI is available. Secondaly, brief yourself thoroughly before each flight - your school should provide briefing notes - so you know what skills are going to be covered and so you can "study" these in your own time. If there is a club attached to your school see if it is possible to share a flight with a really experienced PPL who uses the aircraft regularly. You will get a much more realistic idea of the possibilities a PPL opens up, how to manage the risks and how to remain current without any flight becoming a chore. Only you know if you are prepared to work your way slowly through the air training - but if you dont, given your circumstances, go take a fortnight in the States. Having said all of that dont fool yourself - I heard nearly as many people each year let their license lapse as keep it going. Why? I reckon even after your PPL you need to remain current, other wise you will be nervous, not enjoy the flying, and worse still, a danger to yourself and others. Secondly, what are you going to use your license for - you WILL get bored with the 30 miniute spin around the local area with friends. However, if you are prepared to tour, or enjoy aeros, you will get a great deal of pleasure out of it. Hope that helps a bit - hope you keep going - let us know what you do!!

[SteveR]

I think I hit a motivational slump at about 10-15 hours as well. I had no fear at all until about 5 hours, then it dawned on me I was not really being taught to fly so much as how to deal with the emergencies. At 10-15 hours I was now educated to the dangers but also aware of how inadequate I *still* was.

I did my PPL in a bit of a rush, 'cos I was scared I'd spend my windfall on something more 'acceptable' - but I know lots of people doing it more slowly, and doing it fine.

I didn't get to fly for lots of my bookings, for the same sorts of reasons, and I agree that there are ways of ameliorating this - calling the club to check before getting on the road being the best.

I still scratch around 50% of my sorties - even in the bleedin' summer. As a result, I still tend to leap even at the boring 'I'll fly you over your house' mission - but at 155 hours TT I'm getting less keen on these.

With regards to spending all my time around airfields and aircraft, and my better half complaining about it - I can't comment.

AFAIC she can lump it........

Steve R

[bcfc]

It doesn't sound to me like you're doing too bad. I logged 2.5 hours in all of Feb/March this year, just when I needed to stay current for my first solo nav. When the weather perked up, I packed in the flights as best I could. Finally got the ticket after a year and 60 hrs. So that averages out at 5 hrs a month - a bit like you.

FFF has it right. Enjoy your flying whatever you're doing. I loved training. OK, so I had a fat lump in the right seat telling me what to do but it was still fun.

On the money side, it doesn't get much better. No one said flying was cheap and my flexible friend is a bit stuffed this month thanks to a prolonged period of nice weather and friends wanting a trip. Worth every penny, though.

Keep at it, you will get there.

[Skylark4]

You have had some extremely good advice so far YWIW, here`s some more.

Don`t spend so long at the airfield. Wives will accept a half day rather than all day much better.
Have you considered taking her with you? Depends on the airfield/Club. Many in the UK are slums from whichever direction you approach.

Join the PFA and your local Strut. If it`s any good they should have a `spare seat` program so your wife can go along for the ride too and see what future adventures there could be.

Sorry to keep on about your Wife, but she is the second most important aspect of the whole argument. If she does not like/ is not interested in flying, you will NOT change her mind. Just accept it and try not to make your flying break up your marriage. You have heard of AIDS....Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome. It`s very potent, look around your club.
Keep going, however slowly, your situation could change, OR give up entirely and never look at the sky again. There should be something around called Aviators Anonymous because once it`s got you it does not let go.

Regards

Mike W.

[You want it when?]

WOW - Thanks one and all for some good advice, best comment from FFF on trying to do the PPL and not to fly. To dam close to the truth when I thought about it.

I've definitely got the bug to fly, air force brat etc brought up on the sound of screaming Vulcan's (101) and chundering Shackelton's (8). I would have joined the RAF as aircrew but my eyes went downhill at 15, and ground duties would have been torture.

My school has been pretty insistent that I make myself available for long periods of time and that I should expect to fly all day as I progress through the course. We will see about that - I shall switch to booking a single hour / hour and a half only in future AND no more burning up family holiday slots. I can always switch schools if they don't like it - as has been said elsewhere it's my money.

I shall take it a bit slower and turn it back into a pleasure thing - rather than a target / learning chore. I'm still concerned about currency but perhaps group ownership will give me the hours I believe I will need. Regarding PFA / Strutts well I've joined a while ago but nothing seems to be doing in my area apart from their AGM! I guess more digging needed there.

AID syndrome, very good point but not a chance, I'd walk from the field without a backward glance (no honest), I believe that already I've learnt enough to make my life safer and more procedural - I've introduced checklists into our Operations dept to their amusement but hey I'm the boss. Of course if Mrs YWIW ever finds out how much my headset and ICOM / VOR capable handheld really cost I would be in big trouble! Besides I've booked her a helicopter lesson (can't beat them join them).

So thanks again and its back to reading Air-Law on the morning train. I've booked a one hour hop on Saturday afternoon. God forbid I shall manage to make the C150 land on both mains at once! :D

[ 05 September 2001: Message edited by: You want it when? ]

[poetpilot]

Just to add my two pennyworth to all the good stuff that's gone before.....I'm still learning at 740 hours, and still loving it, despite nervousness every now and then (see another thread where some of us discussed this - it's natural and it keeps you on your toes). My big problem is time management & a wife who sees very little of me....I have a job that keeps me away from home all week, and I play in a band most w/e's...(well it pays for the flying....)

Though I have a share in a plane, its a single seater. To stay current on multiseat and to take occasional passengers, I use the club PA28/Grob aircraft. I have trouble booking these, but I've found that the first slot in the morning is much easier to book than any other (both weekends and weekdays). So that's what I go for. This has the double advantage of getting a flight in then having almost a full day free to spend with SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed). Midday slots are a pain - they break up anything else thats planned for the day.

I try to do this with my own aircraft too. And it makes me feel better all day!!! Occasionally I'll use a half day or day to fly out somewhere for the nav & the experience, but I can tell you I'm still not bored localling around - it's still very stimulating and fun.

Keep at it, you reach these plateaus every now and then, both in training and after you get the PPL, but it really is worth it I can assure you!

[tacpot]

Another two penny's worth:

1) Don't expect to fly more than two hours a day and learn very much, unless you are less than 20 years old. (And make sure you are rested between each flight)

2) My experience is that it is darkest before the storm breaks! I've just gone solo again for the first time in 15 years, and had exactly the same "Am I ever going to learn how to land" feelings, as I was working up to the solo standard. The closer I got to going solo, the worse my judgement on my performance was (even if each landing was generally better than the last)

3) Try a flight simulator if you have access to a high spec PC. It isn't entirely like the real thing, but it's close enough for you to rehearse your landing procedure, i.e. Attitude for Airspeed, Power for Rate of Descent, when to flare, the rate of pull required, when to transfer vision from the aiming point to the side of the a/c where you can judge your height from. (This was a major step forwards I noticed in my landings - suddenly I was able to change focus from straight ahead to out to one side, to straight ahead again, without it being a struggle to do so)

4) Another step forwards was being of a positive mind. I had periods when I thought I could see the instructor's hand inching towards the yoke - at that point I think I must have subconsiously been thinking "you can sit back now, the instructor thinks you've botched it, he wants control, so let him do the landing". Once I accepted that I could, and must land the a/c correctly, despite the contents of the right hand seat, it all came together quite quickly. (Believe me, if I can be taught to land a plane, then 99.99% of the population can)

5) Accurate flying, especially with respect to the approach speed will pay dividends. Alot of this is practise. Landing is a skill: it has to be learnt, and practised, and only when you have done both of these will it become a comfortable exercise.

6) Stretch yourself at every stage of the flight. Climb at exactly Vy, make your calls as close to the correct positions as RT traffic allows, level out from the climb correctly, trim properly, judge your drift in the circuit. The more you do, the more value you'll get from the flight, and the easier it will become - if you're 100ft above circuit height as you turn onto base leg, your got to use additional brain power to manage your descent properly. Fly accurately and you'll arrive over the threshold with mental capacity in reserve.

But, most importantly stick with it. It's definitely worth it. When you start doing solo cross country's, you'll suddenly find yourself with the a/c at exactly the right height, heading in exactly the right direction, knowing exactly where you are and having had intelligible communication with an ATC unit you have never spoken to before, and you will marvel at: the view, the emptiness of the right hand seat, the pleasure of flying, and the sheer correctness of the world. (Just don't marvel for too long. I shall be coming in the other direction, flying VFR just as you will be. See and avoid eh? ;) )

Best wishes, tacpot

[Whirlybird]

YWIW,

There's not a lot more I can add to some excellent advice on this thread. Just that I remember early on saying that I was learning more about patience than about flying. I was, and believe me it was more difficult. I can't remember the number of times I checked the weather, called the airfield, then things changed by the time I got there. And I must hold some sort of record for hours spent learning to land/going solo - look at the "Changing Instructors" thread on wannabes if you want details. But learning patience, and to change plans if necessary, is important, if not crucial for a pilot.

I agree with all the rest of the advice, but do take your wife down with you, even if only to watch and have a cup of tea. A lot of women feel it's a very male oriented thing (it is!) and can feel excluded - and that shouldn't be the case. If the family finances can survive it, maybe she could learn a bit too - like the safety pilot course, which is only about five hours.

And yes, it's worth it. This summer I've flown a helicopter to Paris, and spent a few days touring in Ireland. Wow! Even after I got my PPL, I never thought I'd do that. And that was only three years ago. You can meet and do things with more experienced pilots, learn a lot, have loads of fun, and include the family too. Yes, you do need to keep current, but you can extend the gaps between flights as you get more hours. It's expensive, but if you do that it's not all that horrendous.

Hope that helps a bit. And if your wife wants another woman to talk to about this weird flying stuff and what it's really all about, tell her she can e-mail me if she wants (especially if she's going to fly helicopters!!!!)

[brisl]

I waited a day or so to consider my reply and everyone else has said what I would have done by now. I'd just add:

1) Flying is all about learning. You are learning now and you will continue to learn. Somwhere in this learning process you will get a PPL. You may go on and get other ratings - its a continuous process with satisfying milestones passed rather than goals in the future.

2) As a student, I found it difficult to judge my own progress. Anytime you get a chance, hitch a ride with someone else. Either a qualified PPL or, if the club will allow it, ride in the back of another student's lesson (and don't forget to return the favour). You'll soon see that other pilots aren't so different. You'll also discover that its easy to observe and analyse your own mistakes when you see someone else doing the same.