View Full Version : Bad news from World Gliding Championship
oversteer
9th Jul 2010, 13:33
World Gliding Championship 2010 (Prievidza, Slovakia) - A competitor in the Standard Class competition was killed yesterday, apparently after failing to recover from a spin at low height.
Today's flying cancelled for all classes.
Two gliders collided in midair on the first day, but were both able to land safely. One competitor was penalised as a result of the collision.
Stay safe up there :(
Very sorry to hear that. I thought modern high performance gliders were unspinnable? I haven't poled a glider for some 10 years now but the glass ships I finished up on were bulletproof unless you really wanted to bend them. The only gliders I could ever get to spin were a K13 and K8 and then with some difficulty.
Could be something to do with the fact I'm a big guy...........C of G was always well forward when I flew, I was 240 pounds with chute and flying clobber, right on the limit for the club K8. Trimming out was easy, it was always back against the stops........
In fact I think I was half the empty weight of a K8....
I learned to fly at Cosford and I remember being told that somebody had spun in there at low level and landed in some telegraph wires, he got out without a scratch. Somedays you have the angels on your side.
Pilot DAR
9th Jul 2010, 23:32
I know nothing whatever of these events.
I would comment that just about any winded aircraft can be spun, if you work at it. I wonder if the pilot was working at it, and if so, from on low? I've been to a lot of flying demonstrations, and there seems to often be a "watch this" element in some of the flying. I make no judgement here, but remain concerned about the image our industry, of unsuccessful attempts at unusual maneuvers close to the ground.
I'm unhappy for the pilot, and unhappy about accidents in general.
cats_five
10th Jul 2010, 06:34
Very sorry to hear that. I thought modern high performance gliders were unspinnable?
<snip>
The K21 trainer is pretty much unspinnable, to the degree that spins are not included in the lower category glider aerobatics figures so that a K21 can do them.
Just about all the rest will spin, some very readily. A Puchatz for example.
thing
10th Jul 2010, 07:46
Yes, come to think about it we had an ASK 19 that our CFI could spin (he was about 50 pounds lighter than me) and I couldn't. I stand corrected, perhaps I should have said that I can't spin modern high performance gliders.........
DAR most accidents of this type aren't caused by showing off, they are caused by trying to grab a thermal while on downwind or finals to a field landing. I've seen people in competitions try and get away from about 200 feet...Either that or they try and stretch that final glide a bit too long with get-home-itis and fail to make it. Both bad airmanship of course (I'm not criticising anyone who has been killed or injured by the way, we've all had 'there but for the grace of God' moments) I suppose it's the old 'it can't happen to me' syndrome.
cats_five
10th Jul 2010, 08:41
Please 'thing', you can probably spin most modern gliders. Don't kid yourself that being near MAUW is protection.
As to this accident, there is a tiny more on the WGC website which is that other pilots witness the accident and said he entered a spin from thermalling.
Ryan5252
10th Jul 2010, 12:12
Sincere condolences to the pilot, his family and his friends. It always hits home to me how lucky we are to be flying and our 'sport' should be treated with the utmost respect. It is however very tragic that I seem to read news of a pilot's death almost on a monthly basis!
Again, my heartfelt condolences.
Ryan
The K21 trainer is pretty much unspinnable
I don't agree, at our club they taught the aerobatics course in the K21, including inverted spins.
I vaguely remember high competition gliders having a serious problem if they could not dump their tail water ballast, aft CG and so on.
cats_five
10th Jul 2010, 13:44
I don't agree, at our club they taught the aerobatics course in the K21, including inverted spins.<snip>
Was this a standard K21 without any tail ballast and no crash damage (the repairs can move CoG aftwards, obviously it should still be within limits)? I know one of our lightest instructors tried spinning one of ours solo (no ballast, undamaged) and she never managed to get it to spin. I also know two of our pilots did spin one with the tail weights and nearly failed to get it to recover.
Spin kit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_kit)
http://www.alexander-schleicher.de/tm/21/210_TM04A_E.pdf
Alexander Schleicher (http://www.alexander-schleicher.de/index_e.htm)
(the last mentions the optional spin kit)
If you can spin a bog standard, unmodified one without a spin kit I'd love to know how.
nick.marley
11th Jul 2010, 13:08
I was in Prievidza shortly before the WGC kicked off.
Sincerest condolences to family and friends of deceased pilot. I am sure this will affect everyone there very greatly, but I hope it can be of some comfort to know that our fellow aviator died doing what he loved.
As the WGC represent the best of the best of the countries represented, this tragedy is a lesson to us all that aviation carries risk to everyone, no matter how skilled. There but for the grace of God go I.
A little bit more information on the accident can be found here (http://www.wgc2010.sk/index.php/en/news/2)
Our fellow aviator was Alexander Martynov from Russia. RIP.
Cats, I don't recall any specifics but we did not use a spin kit and the aircraft had never been in an accident, so no heavy tail repairs either.
You may want to get in touch with the club itself:
Contact | ZWEEFVLIEG CLUB ROTTERDAM (http://www.zcrotterdam.nl/contact)
gpn01
11th Jul 2010, 20:38
Was this a standard K21 without any tail ballast and no crash damage (the repairs can move CoG aftwards, obviously it should still be within limits)? I know one of our lightest instructors tried spinning one of ours solo (no ballast, undamaged) and she never managed to get it to spin. I also know two of our pilots did spin one with the tail weights and nearly failed to get it to recover.
Spin kit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_kit)
http://www.alexander-schleicher.de/tm/21/210_TM04A_E.pdf
Alexander Schleicher (http://www.alexander-schleicher.de/index_e.htm)
(the last mentions the optional spin kit)
If you can spin a bog standard, unmodified one without a spin kit I'd love to know how.
Fly it at minimum weight, trim fully forwards, with wet wings (or some icing), at low level and in turbulent conditions. That should do it.
cats_five
12th Jul 2010, 06:38
Fly it at minimum weight, trim fully forwards, with wet wings (or some icing), at low level and in turbulent conditions. That should do it.
Maybe - but not quite the conditions or place I image aerobatic training would take place in.
Jim59
12th Jul 2010, 09:55
thing wrote:
Very sorry to hear that. I thought modern high performance gliders were unspinnable?
Far from it. Although some training gliders as mentioned above are reluctant to spin this is not true for most modern single seat gliders and they will, if provoked enough, spin. I'm no lightweight but all the glass/carbon fibre single seat gliders I've flown will spin - and also recover if the correct recovery procedure is followed and c of g within limits. I know because I've done it deliberately.
For performance reasons a lot of single seat gliders are flown near aft c of g. For some glider types, when ordered from the factory, you can specify the weight of the lightest pilot and they will add weights in the tail to put the c of g near the aft limit for that pilot. For heavier pilots it will be further forward. Frequently gliders also have water ballast tanks in the tail so that the pilot can add further weight to put the c of g where he wants it.
My glider has a brass tail wheel fitted (they are usually plastic or alloy) with lead weights inside it to manage the c of G, plus an 8 litre water tank in the tail that can be filled in 1 litre increments.
Get the sums wrong and it might not recover from an inadvertent spin! :\
Flight Manual Revision for Spins (Technical Note No. 23)
The United States Air Force conducted an extensive flight test program to evaluate the stall, poststall, and spin characteristics of the Model ASK-21. The Air Force concluded that the stall and spin characteristics of the ASK-21 were satisfactory and similar to those of other high performance sailplanes. The Air Force did have the following safety findings: The current ASK-21 manufacturer’s flight manual provided by the manufacturer does not accurately document the spin susceptibility. Additionally, the manual does not adequately document the stall and spin characteristics. Alexander Schleicher has developed a revision to the Flight Manual incorporating recommendations from the Air Force flight test program in Technical Note No. 23. For your information, LBA AD 91-112 and Alexander Schleicher Technical Note No. 23, with the applicable revision pages, are included. The FAA highly encourages you to comply with this section of Technical Note No. 23.
Source:
SAIB ACE-98-07 (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSAIB.nsf/(LookupSAIBs)/ACE-98-07!OpenDocument&ExpandSection=2)