Katana's

[Flyswift]

I'm thinking of getting checked out on a Katana soon. I've heard they are nice to fly, but are different to the norm.

I'm current on PA-28's but fancy a change. Anyone got any thoughts - good or bad?

FS

[Lowtimer]

Never had the opportunity to fly one but as an ex glider guider I applaud the attention that the Katana designer paid to field of vision. One thing that bugs me about the PA-28 is the lack of "upward / sideways" vision especially turning right (from the left seat). I've seen some Cherokee 140s with additional glazed panels to improve this but never on a Warrior / Archer / Cherokee 180 / Arrow etc.

[poetpilot]

I flew one back in 1996 when we were evaluating them for Lancs Aero Club. I liked it from the point of view of visibility, quietness and general handling, but was worried about how they'd take a constant bashing from Barton's not-quite-bowling-green surface. :rolleyes:

Plus, you can't stall them. Dangling there with the nose at an absurd angle and all it does is waffle about losing height at a steady rate. The instructors didnt like it because of that characteristic. In the end we didnt get any. But a nice little thing. Would have done to replace the Grobs but not the PA28s.

[BayAreaLondoner]

I got my private in a Katana.
Fun airplane to fly if somewhat limited in its usefulness.
My personal observations (I've also flown 172s, a Warrior and an Archer)

Pros:
* Great visibility
* Light controls
* Very lightweight
* Constant speed prop
* Modern avionics as standard
* Throttle quadrant
* Rudder authority
* Slips not prohibited
* Spins not prohibited

Cons:
* Very lightweight (you get bumped around a lot more than in a 172)
* Light controls (only really need to trim in cruise)
* Automatic mixture (something a pilot transitioning *from* a Katana needs to learn)
* Cramped cockpit
* Little useful load
* Stick is fun but I spent my first few hours in a 172 trying to steer with the wheel on the ground (t*sser I may be, but I'd never had the temptation to steer with the stick in the Katana)
* Slow (DA20 is anyway)
* Horizontal metal bar near right toe brake (LHS) means that you may be furiously pressing the bar instead of the right brake. This is dependent on how you've adjusted the pedals.
* DA20 is NOT IFR CERTIFIED. However, most have the instruments you'd for IFR practice, but you wouldn't be able to go into IMC.

Out of what I've flown, my favourite is the Archer followed by the Katana. For whatever reason, I'm not keen on Cessnas. Low-wing vs. high-wing and the fact that I learnt in a low-wing? Maybe - who knows.
There's a Katana with a Continental engine (C1 I believe), and that gets over the speed and mixture points listed above. The new DA40 is a four-seater and now has both JAA and FAA IFR certification, and looks very nice. Comfy too - I sat in one at an exhibition and have heard first hand flight reports (both front and rear seat occupants).

You can definitely stall them, but they certainly don't break sharply - somewhere between a Cessna and a Warrior I would imagine. They do, however, encourage sticking to the POH numbers. Any excess airspeed and you will float forever, and they like to fly - took me ages to figure out how to land rather than arrive simply because flaring too early is going to take you quite a way back up relatively speaking (especially if you've got some excess airspeed).

Soft field take-offs are great fun. The nose really pops up and if you're not expecting it you will bash the tail on the runway (so not fun if you're not prepared...)

All in all, I think they're great fun to fly. Feels like you're in a sports car, but a "toy one" like a Mazda MX-5/Miata rather than a Porsche.

David.

[SKYYACHT]

Hi,

I just checked out on the Katana at Redhill. Nicely harmonised controls, and the high aspect ratio wing makes it difficult to descend.....sideslipped on a thermic day, and the most I could get was 1000fpm down with two on board! Otherwise, great viz, and a real stick.....Marvellous. Will be leaving the Warrior at the field in future! Only four quid an hour more expensive. Wobbly prop too!

Tailwinds ;)

[Kermit 180]

I have a few thoughts about the Katana, one of which is the lack of rearward visibility (not an obvious problem to those who have done most of their flying in PA-28's which lack rear window anyway). With flap the aeroplane tends to wingdrop quite suddenly if you are not in perfect balance at the stall with flap selected. I have been spun by a student who made an aileron input trying to recover from a wingdrop stall. Recovery from a spin is not the best, expect to lose (without the spin entry trim set, etc), around 1,500 feet. Taxiing is different, and slipstream over the rudder is required to help overcome the Katana's tendancy to weathercock (much the same tendency as a taildragger). The airframe is reasonably delicate and the most apparent caution is to remain under Va when doing steep turns etc. It will also tend to wheel-barrow significantly onto the nosewheel on takeoff if the correct trim setting or rotate speeds are not adhered to. The DA20 glides very well, sometimes to the detriment of newcomers to the type when trying to land short. I sense many of the posts here refer to the DA20-A model, which is powered by the Rotax driving a CSU propeller. The C-1 model has a Continental IO235 installed with a fixed pitch prop. This engine has problems starting when very cold, and when very hot, and some unusual techniques are used to overcome this. Overall, an OK aeroplane to fly once you have a licence and want something new and different, but not one I can personally recommend for learning in.

Kermie

NB: I recntly asked Diamond Aircraft why the DA20's nosewheel is offset to port. They won't answer my emails, so if anyone knows, please let me know. Thanks.

[Squadgy]

Hi,

Did my PPL on the Katana at Woodford.
I understand the reason for the offset nosewheel is something to do with the assembley for the VP prop.

Cheers

[wysiwyg]

sideslipped on a thermic day, and the most I could get was 1000fpm down with two on board

Skyyacht - don't be tempted to trust your instruments when sideslipping as the pitot and static ports are subject to airflow from directions they are not designed for.

regards
wizzy

[DB6]

After a year of instructing on both the C152 and the Katana my vote goes to the Katana. Great little aircraft for pleasure flying, brilliant visibility (something you don't always appreciate until you've seen it) and speeds just the same as the 152. And a stick always wins over a yoke.

[100LL]

Hey DB6 where u based. the Katana is a great little Aircraft does everything a 152 will do only better. its not a delicate airframe as Kermit suggests its bloody strong, the only problems with them are BAD maintenance. We have had no reliability problems at all in the last two years. The DA20-C1 is an awsome little aeroplane very nice to fly ,feels a lot more stable than the DA20-A1 and it rockets on Cruse @ 120kts flat out 145kts and its NOT difficult to start if you read the handbook and FOLLOW it!!!. Think you might find the nosewheel is off-set for torque reasons.
Go find one and fly it they are not expensive and its nice to have a different type in your log book.

[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: 100LL ]

[SKYYACHT]

WYSIWYG

Yep, I sit corrected.....what I was trying to say, albeit none to articulately, was that it was indeed very hard to come down. Trying to fly an accurate approach was shall we say an interesting experience. Perhaps with glider type wings, it should have spoilers, rather than flaps? I note from another post that you "used to instruct in gliders at RAF Kenley" 615VGS by any chance? How long ago? I was there for a while, both as a spotty faced air cadet in the early 70's and later on the school. Great fun.

Tailwinds