Inadvertent Spins -- How close have you come ?

[kabz]

There is a great Spinnophobia thread on Instructors... I thought I just post a question here and ask:

Have any of you guys experienced an inadvertent stall / spin in other than a training situation ?

If so, was it significantly different than in training, and how did you feel/perform ?

(Edited for spelling)

[ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: kabz ]

[pulse1]

Years ago I got carried away trying to burst balloons in a Tiger Moth and went into an incipient spin at about 1500'. Fortunately I was an experienced glider pilot in those days and was used to being on the edge during turbulent soaring and managed to recover after about half a turn and only lost 200' or so. The instructor (safety pilot)in the front didn't say anything so I'm not sure he realised what was going on. Although I hit one of two balloons, I never managed to burst one.

This was all part of an annual club competition which also involved dropping flour bags on a target followed by a spot landing. Can't say I ever did particularly well.

[ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: pulse1 ]

[Code Blue]

Some (cough) years ago, with the grand total of about 20h, I was doing circuits. I had just turned base to final when tower asked for a left 360 for spacing. I was about 400'agl at about 60KIAS with 20º flaps (C152). I rolled left and pulled, keen to obey - only to sink sideways rather more than turn. The main feeling I had was that I was going down way too fast. The only thing I could think to do was stop pulling, or even push a bit, and roll level - to hell with heading- as that might reverse whatever had happened :rolleyes:

I came out at about 150'agl heading 120º left of the runway and wandered off to sort myself out.

No spin but I reckoned I had an accelerated stall, not to mention a fright. I don't think I really understood what had happened until chatting some time after. If I had spun at that height I would have been a statistic now.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Twice seriously.

About 1 turn in a Tucano that fell off a stall turn.

Incipient in a Spectrum that I was taking a look at for the AAIB, because we weren't quite sure about the cause of a fatal - we were reasonably certain afterwards (straight into incipient when you stalled at climb power).

The main difference to training is that it is a loss of control, to be initially treated as such, not a developed spin. I personally don't like the training regime concentration on the developed spin, which becomes effectively an aerobatic manoeuvre - all my experiences are that an inadvertent spin entry is a loss of control that can be recovered quickly before a developed spin occurs - but an opposite rudder recovery is not appropriate in this case.

G

[Final 3 Greens]

Stall/big wing drop due windshear in IMC under instruction. Instructor recovered it on the panel.

Very scary.

[Kermit 180]

Well, my two inadvertant spins occurred during instructing, both during wingdrop stall lessons. The first was in a C152, easily recovered at the incipient stage. The second is the closest I think Ive come to becoming part of the landscape. It was in a Katana. The student applied ailreon at the stall and away she went. Having releived the student of control, I remember raising the flaps and commencing recovery from the spin (and letting out a series of expletives as well) at about 2,700 feet. The Katana spins very tightly, and recovery was finally completed at just over 1,400 feet. I was over water; if I had spun where I would normally have done the lesson, I would have had about 500 feet to spare. Food for thought. :(

[Tricky Woo]

Spun like a top after falling out of a stall-turn (yet again) in an Aerobat. Throttle back, right rudder, yoke forward, spin stops, ease out of the dive, then try to look as if you meant to do that all along. Ahem. No big shocker 'cos I was doing aeros, and these things happen.

I have a strategy not to get into that situation during, say, a circuit or climb 'cos it's bad for the health. If you spin, then it's probably best to be doing it on purpose, eh?

TW

[stiknruda]

I have spun out of botched stall turns (usually inverted).

No real drama - just close the power and you can sort it out before the spin develops.

I almost expect that it may happen: lots of fwd stick, large right rudder input and a tadge of aileron combined with lots of power.

If those control inputs tell the aircraft anything, it is spin me inverted! :D :D


Stik

[kabz]

Wow, some great replies.

My own experiences of accidental stalls have so far been limited to gliding, where it is easily possibly to stall when flying in thermals which can be a bit turbulent around the edges.

The first time this happened, the glider stalled and dropped the outside wing and just started falling. It was certainly a bit of an eye-opener. :8 However, it can take a while for anything nastier to develop, so even my somwhat delayed reponse in getting the stick forward managed to recover before the world started going round and round...

I am **much** more sensitive to "everything going quiet" now, along with the light controls, and probably much safer as a result.

Incidentally, having the student stall, spin and recover successfully is a prerequisite of getting solo in a glider, at least at our club. Besides, practicing spins is ***fun*** !!

[Mr moto]

I know a chap who bears the same surname as myself and belongs to the same club as I'm fairly sure Pulse 1 belongs to who had quite a close shave.

It was an Oly, I think, scratching for the last lift on the ridge down by Firle Beacon. The spin was recognized immediately and recovery action taken. He said he felt the glider flying again just before the wingtip hit the ground. The observers came running over the hill to find........ no wreckage!
The ground contact had turned the aircraft that last 90 degrees to send him away down to the bottom of the hill to land safely!
If it had been 180 degrees more I might not be here now!

Its described in Peter Champion's book 'Glider Pilot'.

Chap in question is also responsible for the comment, "Remind me to talk to you about your landings!" I'll tell you about it another time.

Spin training saves lives.

[pulse1]

Mr moto,

The club I'm talking about is the Bustard Flying Club (Boscombe Down Flying Club) back in the good old days when Old Sarum was an RAF station. I don't know if they still exist - the last time I saw anything about them they had a couple of SE5 replicas I believe.

[ShyTorque]

I inadvertently spun a JP Mk3A from a stall turn in 1977. Aircraft flicked, then went high rotational, something I hadn't seen before.

I lost 10,500 ft and recovered below the minimum abandonment height for the ejector seat. I wasn't a happy young pilot as I considered myself very lucky to get away with it.(Just wish I had a video of it to show my kids).

Didn't do it again and now my stall turns are spot-on!

I also had a Cessna 150 Aerobat go into an inverted spin from a normal entry. It was later found to have the wings rigged at different incidences.

ShyT

[ianbishop]

The first 25 hrs of my PPL training was in Canada and I did 3 hrs of full spin training in a C172. This came in handy when in my final couple of solo hours B4 PPL award (having done X Country, GFT, ground exams etc), but was 2 hrs short on solo.
I took a C150 up to 5000ft, which I'd never done a full general handling demo with - tried steep turns, power off stall, half power stall - no problems. Tried a cruise power stall, and the left wing dropped like a good'un into full spin. Managed to talk myself through recovery OK - landed before the soiled underwear stained the seat!!! :o

[Mr moto]

Pulse 1.
Well that narrows it down a bit. I'm talking about the other club which gets up to those kinds of antics. Sounded like you were talking about what Benjy described as 'The Exuberant Years' of the Tiger Club.

Those were the days,eh?!

[Tug]

This happened to me on my GFT way back when;
The examiner was an airline captain from the jurrasic period. I really don't think he enjoyed being up with a novice and only one engine. All was going well though, and then we climbed real high for the incipient spin recovery bit. The cherokee 140 croaked its way up to 4 or 5 grand and he said something along the lines of.." you will pull the nose up and I will kick in some rudder and you will recover before the stall."

Well, I was young and fearless in those days and said OK (duh) and we did as he said.I pulled up and as the wing dropped he kicked in a boot load of opposite rudder.
Anyway, the aircraft span beautifully and I still remember him screaming..... "recover recover!" at the top of his voice. I could see the sparkling sea below revolving around the window. I'm not going to pretend that I was unfazed by all this but luckily for both of us I had completed my glider training a year or two earlier and did what I had done in gliders and we came out of the spin and trundled back to the airport.
Where I was informed that I had failed the test.
There's real meaning when I say I could have killed the guy!!
:D :D :D null

[cirrus driver]

I would recommend all those power pilots who have not been gliding to do so .
You will receive plenty of spin training, but more importantly, incipient spin recognition and automatic recovery.
On a long cross country flight ( 500-600 km) her in Oz and on a good day ( 8kt+ thermals) one has as many as 10 to 15 incipient spin entries , all of which are automatically corrected often without even putting down the sandwich or muesli bar!
I speak from 2000 + power hours and over 600 gliding.
I prefer and recommend the latter.
Cirrus

[BEagle]

A friend of my late father flew deliberately slower than normal in a visual circuit in order to stay behind a much slower aircraft on final. He told me that there was a brief shudder, then the aircraft departed without warning; he recovered it before it went fully-developed, overshot and landed off the next approach.

He was flying a Boulton-Paul Defiant and was trying to stay behind a Swordfish. His story remains ingrained in my memory along with the advice to go round and reposition if you're baulked on the approach - never try to fly slower than the normal approach speed! And not like the idiot I saw yesterday who extended 6 miles downwind in a PA 28 because of wake turbulence spacing from the 4-jet which was ahead........

[ 17 July 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]

[Final 3 Greens]

BEagle

Six miles? That's pushing the limits of the circuit in to the next county!

Seriously, what would you consider a reasonable course of action for a PA28 following a 4 engined jet, mindful of wake vortex? (Which could cause an inadvertant spin.)

[Mr moto]

And the brief shudder is about as standard a warning as you're going to get from an accidental spin!