NPPL (slmg) to PPL

[guitarist_ben]

Im just about to start an NPPL SLMG course with Oxfordshire Sport Flying and then differences training for SEP.

The nppl licence restrictions are fine for the type of flying i would be doing in the near future. However if i wanted to convert my nppl to a JAR-PPL later on would i have to cover all the 45 hours of training in an SEP, and would any of the slmg hours count towards a JAR-PPL SEP?

I have been trying to find all this out and have called a few numbers, (bga, caa etc) but havent really had a straight answer yet.

Would be great if anyone could advise me?

Ben

[Whopity]

For a JAA PPL you need 25 hours dual training and 10 hours solo; 10% of pilot in command time up to a maximum of 10 hours experience in other aircraft can be counted towards the 45 hours needed for licence issue. Thus only 10% of your PIC time in a SLMG will count and you still have a lot to do.

In 2012 things will change under European rules. The NPPL will disappear and be replaced with the EASA LPL, If you change the NPPL to a LPL under EASA rules then you will only need 15 hours to convert to an EASA PPL.

[guitarist_ben]

So if ive understood correctly, as long as i dont convert to ppl before 2012 (which i wont be) then i can have 30 hours slmg towards the EASA PPL, and finish the remaining 15 hours, and skills test?

I take it the theoretical exams will stay the same aswell?

Thanks

[BEagle]

NOTHING is certain about EASA's €urocratic nonsense.

You never know, there might still be a chance that sanity will prevail over €urocracy.

[ifitaintboeing]

You can go from NPPL [SLMG] to NPPL [SSEA] by completing differences training and sending the form and dosh off to NPLG at Turweston. Quite a simple process.

Details here:

http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/PDFs/NPPL%20XC%20REV%2008.pdf

NPPL (SLMG) or UK PPL (A) SLMG to NPPL (SSEA)

The holder of a valid NPPL with SLMG Class Rating or UK PPL (A) SLMG who wishes to obtain a SSEA Class Rating shall:

a. Produce the NPPL or UK PPL (A) SLMG;

b. Produce log book evidence of having satisfactorily completed SSEA conversion training with a FI(A) or CRI(SPA) on single-engine piston aeroplanes;

c. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAA Class 1 or 2 medical certificate.

You can then exercise NPPL [SSEA] privileges with all of the hours that you fly counting towards JAR-FCL issue. Make sure that you fulfil the solo and navigation requirements. Then look at LASORS 6.2 for the requirements to upgrade to a JAR-FCL PPL with SEP class rating.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Section%20C%20-%20PRIVATE%20PILOT%20LICENCE.pdf

The dual hours that you use to convert from SLMG to SSEA count, as all NPPL [SSEA] instructors are currently JAR-FCL instructors also.

ifitaint...

[Whopity]

to NPPL [SSEA] by completing differences training and sending the form and dosh off to NPLG at TurwestonI know this is stated (in a document that pre-dates the change) but differences training is not relevant to aircraft in a different Class! ANO Schedule 3 Part1
Changes were notified on the CAA website. (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/AN%20Amendment%20Order%20Circular%20v%201%2000%2000.pdf),

Art 69 requires that to operate a specific Class the licence holder must have a valid Certificate of Re-validation, how do you obtain that without a test? Experience only counts if it is obtained whilst holding a valid rating!69.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), the holder of a United Kingdom Licence, a JAR-FCL Licence or a National Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes) is not entitled to exercise the privileges of any rating specified in Section 2 of Part B of Schedule 7 which is included in the licence unless—
(a) the licence includes a certificate of revalidation for the rating; and
(b) the certificate is issued and valid in accordance with Section 3 of Part C of Schedule 7. Section 3 of Part C of Schedule 711.—(1) A certificate of revalidation required by article 69(1) for a SSEA class rating, a microlight class rating or a SLMG class rating must be signed by a person authorised by the CAA to sign certificates of this kind and certify—
(a) the rating to which the certificate relates;
(b) that on a specified date the holder has satisfied the relevant requirements for issue in accordance with Table 1 and Table 2;
(c) the specified date; and
(d) the date on which the period of validity of the certificate expires in accordance with Table 3.
(2) In the case of a certificate of revalidation for a class rating which is being issued on the basis of paragraph 1(b) of Table 2, so that the holder of the licence has satisfied the experience requirements but without having had a flight with an instructor as part of that experience, the person signing the certificate must endorse the certificate “single seat only”.
(3) Such a certificate of revalidation remains valid in accordance with Table 3.
At the CAA's FIE and CPL Examiner Meeting in October 2009, Examiners were told that a C of R is required for all Classes held on an NPPL from 1 July 2009 this requires a Test or Relevant Experience obtained whilst holding a valid rating. This was reiterated in the minutes of that meeting. All Exemptions (ORS4 Series) to the requirement not to hold a valid CofR for each Class were withdrawn on 30 June 2009.

[BEagle]

'Differences training' was deliberately changed to 'conversion training' in REV08, because some ex-CAA barrack room lawyers kept suggesting that only the specific 'differences training' listed in the ANO could count as 'differences training'...:bored:

If, for example, you've flown an RF5B with its retractable monowheel and 3-position prop, then fly a PA28-140 for your SSEA Class Rating training, you cannot then fly as PIC in a PA28-180R (with a VP prop and retractable undercarriage) without completing 'differences' training for VP and RG. Or assume that the tail-dragger configuration of the RF5B will cover you to fly a Chipmunk.

Whoever countersigns the application form for adding an SSEA Class Rating to an NPPL (SLMG) is also declaring that the applicant meets the same NST/GST standards as an ab-initio NPPL SSEA applicant, although there is no formal requirement to fly the tests.

REV08 was approved by the CAA; certain statements made at the FIE/CPL conference were slightly incorrect - LASORS 2010 (if it ever gets published) will, however, hopefully correct these errors.

[Whopity]

Beagle,
Whoever countersigns the application form for adding an SSEA Class Rating to an NPPL (SLMG) is also declaring that the applicant meets the same NST/GST standards as an ab-initio NPPL SSEA applicant, although there is no formal requirement to fly the tests.
I wish someone would brief the Examiners about this because so far nobody has done so and the material being put out by the Chief Examiner is contrary to that statement.
LASORS is not a legal document and anything written there will not in any way change the ANO. The Exemptions issued to resolve the previous cock-up have been withdrawn. Yet again what they say and do do not correlate.

[ifitaintboeing]

So, in summary, what I have advised is CORRECT. :ok:

Edited to say that the application form for addition of SSEA is here:

http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/PDFs/Application%20Forms/SSEA%20Application%20Form%20Issue%2017.pdf

C'mon Whopity, keep up! Now, let's see what EASA has to offer :eek:

ifitaint...

[guitarist_ben]

Cheers for everyones responses, really helpful!

Although i must admit i am still fairly confused with all the differences i hear from different people.

to 'if it aint...'

so does this mean if i do the differences training to the ssea rating with a jar instructor, the hours i do under instruction count AND any hours i fly with that rating....therefore just building my hours up on ssea and then taking a GFT for PPL.
OR

is it just the hours under instruction that count (say 5?) and then 10 of my slmg hours? meaning i would have to complete the remaining 30 hours under instruction? :s

And i take it this is just under the JAR ppl and no the EASA?

[BEagle]

As I said, you will be doing conversion training for your SSEA Class Rating, not 'differences' training.

If you hold a NPPL with SLMG and SSEA Class Ratings, but have only flown, for example, 3 hours with a JAR-FCL-appointed FI and a couple of hours supervised PIC time in the circuit during SSEA conversion training , then to upgrade to a JAR-FCL PPL(A) you will need to achieve a further 17 hours of SEP flight training with a JAR-FCL appointed FI, and further 8 hours supervised solo time (including 5 hrs cross-country which must include the 150nm qualifying cross-country) on SEP aircraft. That would add up to 3+17+2+8=30 hours on SEP aircraft, so you will then need a further 5 hours on SEP aircraft (which can be dual, solo or combination of both) to give a minimum total of 35 hours SEP time under the auspices of JAR-FCL training. You need a minimum total flight time of 45 hours before applying, so 10 of those further hours could have been flown on SLMGs. You then take the JAR-FCL PPL(A) Skill Test (not the 'PPL GFT' - there's no such thing).

It might seem excessive, but the JAR-FCL 20 hrs dual and 10 hrs PIC are mandatory requirements which the CAA has no powers to waive. The Authority agreed these 'conversion' requirements with the NPPL Policy and Steering Committee and they are quite reasonable.

We have no idea what lunatic Colgonic irritations will be introduced by the €urocrats at EASA as they haven't even considered licence conversions yet.

[guitarist_ben]

so basically at the moment their is noshort route to eventually getting a PPL. As usual with most things!

i Geuss ill just do what i can to get in the skys at the moment and worry about converting when/if the time comes!

Only thing tht i would really want it for is to add IMC and night ratings to the licence.