Night Rating or Aeros? Help me decide.

[Rusty Cessna]

Right folks,

Now I have gained a few hours after my PPL, I'm thinking what to do next, night rating is in heavy consideration, something else that I'm thinking about more and more each day is going and doing something very fun, aerobatics.

I've done a few hours of aeros in a 152 Aerobat, and it was ace fun, however now I have a little bit of money tucked away I would like to do it on something bigger, better and with more grunt, I have a yak 52 in mind.

Im looking to do a night rating for the following reasons: Helps if I get caught out, advances my licences, night flying is ace.

Im looking to do some aeros because: It's just immense fun, I've been dreaming about it since I first went flying, I get to (I think) put ticks in boxes for wobbly prop and retractable gear if I do it in a yak, plus its a lot fun!

Really I'm after your thoughts on which to choose, also if I opt for aeros, is it recommended I follow the AOPA course? I do really fancy a go in a YAK, and have looked at Skytrace website, was very impressed, but would you all suggest a YAK or pitts, which is more expensive?

Finally what kind of price are we talking for introduction into the upside down world of aeros. Many thanks and sorry to bring up a thread which has been done before, but I could really do with some advice.

Thanks again, . .Rusty.

P.S The little bit of money tucked away does have a limit, so is the YAK more realistic than a Pitts say?

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: Rusty Cessna ]</p>

[FlyingForFun]

Hi Rusty,

Have tried a bit of both. Both are good fun, IMHO!

Personally, I enjoyed the night flying, but I enjoyed the aeros even more. Having said that, I'd probably recommend the night flying if you're flying on money you've saved up. Once you've completed an aeros course, hiring a Yak or similar to practice on will be expensive, and you'll probably go out of "currency" (I know there's no official currency requirements for aeros, but there's a practical requirement of remembering how to do it safely!) very quickly. With night flying, on the other hand, you'll be able to take the occassional night flight at no extra cost (or very little extra cost) compared to your regular flying.

But if you've just had a pay-rise, or find yourself with a little extra disposable income than you've had previously for whatever reason, go for the aeros - not only are they more fun than night flying, but it'll improve your flying skills too!

Can't really comment on price, since I did my aeros in the USA, so prices aren't directly comparible with over here. But, for what it's worth, the Great Lakes that I did the basic aerobatic training in cost me around double the price of a PA28 to hire. The Pitts Special cost around 5 times the price.

Whatever you do, enjoy it!

FFF. .-----------

[Rusty Cessna]

Cheers FFF, really apreciate your advice. I have to say falling out of currency is an issue, and its a lot easier to renew a night rating than trecking somewhere for aeros, but I really fancied the YAK just cos its great, and is something different, even if I don't do aeros for a while, I was looking at Skytrace Yak 52 competency course, if any one has done that, would you care to comment?

Thanks again,. .Rusty.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Rusty Cessna:

If you are planning on flying for a career the areos training is worth twenty times the value of night flying.

If you are flying for fun the areos training is worth twenty times the value in improving flying skills.

The night rating can be added anytime and it is a very over hyped training course.

I am not saying that night flying does not require extra training and care when flying, I am merely saying there is a lot of hype involved in the training courses. Remember flying schools would have a hard time selling inflated courses and then advertising the skills needed really are not that different from day flying.

Having stepped that far into that brown stuff, may I add that night flying is far safer if you have training in instrument flying skills sufficient to pass the instrument flying skills segments of the IFR flight test.

.................. . :) The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. :)

[Chilli Monster]

Do neither - save a bit more money and do an IMC. Much more use to you in the vagaries of UK weather, plus it lets you fly on top - a brilliant experience and view you will always enjoy.

CM

[DB6]

Rusty, the clocks change in about a month's time. After that you will probably not fly at night until October or whenever the clocks change again. Take advantage of the summer and get the aeros in while the sun shines (if it ever does). Flying aerobatics the best thing you can do in an aircraft however it's generally not too cheap. If you are in the Midlands Tatenhill have a Decathlon which is fully aerobatic and pretty cheap as these things go (£118/hr)however I have heard a lot of good things about Skytrace as well. The Decathlon, like the Pitts, is a taildragger so you would learn that side of things too. Don't know about Skytrace prices but you can expect to pay about £170-200 per hour for a Pitts.. .Get the aeros in, save the night until October.

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: DB6 ]</p>

[logie_bear]

Rusty,

I was in a similar position recently. Aeros, night or instrument. Went with aeros and never regretted it. The most fun you can have with or without your pants on and if you get the right training, you might just learn something that'll save your life one day. If you can do 'em in a taildragger, even better.

l_b

[sennadog]

I'm thinking about this issue for when I've passed my PPL and I've come to the conclusion that doing the Night course will be better in Winter. You are keeping current and learning something new plus you can do it at at civilised time and still hit the pub afterwards to relive/bore your mates with stories about it!

Aeros has got to drastically improve your flying technique - hasn't it? I'm looking at this element more from a safety point of view rather than fun - I may enjoy it more than I think but I really want to improve my control and have a better idea of what to do if it all goes pear shaped!

How about combining it with a holiday to the States?

[DOC.400]

Second Chilli on this, but if u have some spare cash, just do some aeros for fun!

My son had his first flight in a Grob Tutor last week and requested some aeros -they just did some barrel rolls and loops, but 3 hours later his grin still had to be surgically removed!

DOC

[Rusty Cessna]

Thanks for all the replies folks, really apreciate it.

DOC, I know what your son feels like, the grob is possitively wicked fun :)

Rusty

[Southern Cross]

Rusty

I have done the Skytrace Yak 52 course and more. I cannot recommend it more highly. Gennady, the instructor, is superb - you could not ask for a better person to teach you how to fly the Yak 52 and to fly, safely, aerobatics in that aeroplane. The safety aspects include all kinds of spinning - taught in a logical order as you learn different manouevres. Once you can fly a Yak 52 to Gennady's satisfaction, you will then be a much better pilot than when you started, regardless of what you then fly.

Enjoy.

[Rusty Cessna]

Thanks for the input SC, so you would advice going for the aeros option? How much am I looking at for Skytrace program?

Thanks again,. .Rusty.

[arrow2]

Rusty,

What about a night aeros course??? <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> I'll GMC!

A2

[javelin]

Ahhh, now you're talking - go and see Tom Cassells at Bagby <a href="http://www.skyboard.co.uk" target="_blank">www.skyboard.co.uk</a> He will sort you out with a night aero's course ! Seriously, he will give better value in a Slingsby than either a Pitts or a YAK as he is cheaper. He is also the British #1.

More beer please Mr C !

[FNG]

The current British number 1 in aeros is Alan Cassidy, who won for the third time last year.

[Tricky Woo]

Do aeros, Rusty!

TW

[ornithopter]

Rusty,

I completed a frozen ATPL not long ago, but before I was in a UAS and had aeros training and a PPL. In my opinion as a PPL it is MUCH better to do an aeros course as it makes you more aware of things that are not taught properly on the PPL course (as there is no requirement to), such as spinning and stall/spin from a turn (kills people every year). Flying a single at night is not too wise a thing to do if it goes quiet up front, and you will not need a night rating in the summer. In my experience, keeping night current as a PPL is not that easy. Also, if you go and do an ATPL sometime (if that is your aim), you will get the instrument rating, and it is only then that night flying becomes a serious proposition - although getting back late from France in the winter it is nice to have one. I firmly belive that we should all have more aeros training as it makes you so much more aware of what the aeroplane can do, and more importantly what it cannot do.

Having said that I loved the night flying, but you may be dissappointed if you spend a lot of cash on it, as it is not difficult.

Best thing I ever did in an aeroplane was a seaplane rating.... Can't hope to keep it current, but I flew off the Mississippi for 2 days and loved every second.

Enjoy whatever you plan to do - I think aeros will be so much better - and you get to fly a more exciting aircraft as well.

[Tiger_ Moth]

Come on rusty, you obviously want to do the aeros most so do them!. .You'd have loads of fun not only with the aeros but also due to flying a new plane. It could be expensive, depending what you do it on, someone I talked to said about £200-250 /hr on a pitts if I remember correctly but it was really good fun. I don't know about yak 52 prices but it looks like a really interesting plane to fly. If cost is that much of an issue then there are cheap alternatives as DB6 said like decathlons. Other cheaper planes include Tiger Moths and Stampes which the Tiger Club have. If you want to go really cheap then how about a Turbulent? They're only about £60/hr.. .I won't even be waiting till I get my licence to do aeros, I'll be doing them straight after solo consolidation, so hopefully this summer.. .Do whatever you think you'd have most fun doing, which by the sounds of it is aeros.

[julian storey]

I did my night rating a couple of years ago. It is a) very useful and b) great fun. Did a night flight to Alderney about this time last year - absolutely splendid.

Julian

[FlyingForFun]

TM,

Is the Turbulent aerobatic? I was under the impression it isn't, but willing to be corrected if I'm wrong. I think it's one of the most beautiful planes ever built, and hopefully will manage to get to the Tiger Club some time to do some formation-flying in one.

FFF. .---------

[Tiger_ Moth]

FFF,. .Good question, Im not so sure now. On the tigerclubs website: <a href="http://www.tigerclub.co.uk" target="_blank">www.tigerclub.co.uk</a> it says they were used for "stunting" but that might not mean aeros. I suppose if you look at one it doesnt look that aerobatic and its not that powerful so you might/probably are right. BUT stampes are definetely aerobatic and not too expensive at £140 an hour. By the way my bumbled advice has given way to another option: formation flying. It would be great fun and the turbulents are actually only £45/hour! If I ever want to hour build I'll know where to go.