The Perfect Piston Step Up

[flyingperson]

Hi.

Does anybody think that companies like Cirrus and Diamond are missing the mark as piston step ups for single pilots? These "personal" jets seem to focus more on passenger comfort than performance. Not that the passengers should be uncomfortable but if the plane is for single pilots, shouldn't it be smaller.

I think the perfect step up would be a plane like the Lancair that is certified. Some type of turboprop with a more aerodynamic airframe that isn't about the passengers. Maybe we could see a four seat turboprop that could fly at 320-350 knots while burning 40 gph instead of the Cirrus Jet, which will probably do 60 gph for 300 knots. Granted, turboprops are a litle more expensive but maybe somebody could get it on the market for 1.5 mil.

I'm sick of companies sacrificing speed for other things!

[IO540]

Very true that turboprops are more efficient than jets.

It's probably a marketing decision. The marketing men probably think that customers with a small enough willy to want a jet will want a JET :)

But I think the D-Jet, with a FL250 limit, is just plain silly. The Cirrus jet, they told me on Saturday, will go to FL270 so they don't have to do RVSM.

The problem is that the low end TP market is already well covered by e.g. the Jetprop. You can pick up a good one for under $1.2M which is certainly cheaper than any of these jets.

And the VLJ market is quite small. The air taxi business model is dead and buried. So you are looking at a mainly replacement market for large piston owners and some TPs. You need to do "something different" to make a mark there.

[AdamFrisch]

All this market needs is someone to do a cheaper and smaller certified turbine. The RR300 has the potential to be that.

Me personally, I'm much more sick of the fact that a new Lycoming EFi TIO540 is $115.000. It's insane that 40's technology should cost that much.

Someone pretty soon is going to come along and shut all these companies down for good. Good riddance. There'll be a little Indian company os something that comes a long wiath a certified turbine for £30.000 and then it's all over.

[IO540]

Unlikely to ever happen.

Nobody ever bombs the market price. Especially not in aviation where customers are ultra conservative and the dealers are very loyal to their present principals.

These little turbines are designed for helicopters and there seems to be no problem selling turbine helis at present prices, so why drop the price? Product differentiation is important to the manufacturers. Consumers are irrelevant. They all hate the manufacturers anyway; after the crankshaft sagas there is zero brand loyalty and if your name is Lyco/Conti then it's a case of once no longer a virgin it doesn't matter what you do.... I asked Lyco at an exhibition about SB569 and they denied there was ever anything wrong with their cranks; the man said it was all done by lawyers, and all actual crank breakages were done by the pilots.

Nobody will actually pay $115k for a Lyco engine. That's the end user list price. The cost-plus (available from some U.S. box shifters) will probably be about $80k. An airframe mfg will probably pay about $50k. An owner will just overhaul his engine, for about $30k.

Currently, the TB21 engine (TIO-540-something) "lists" at $120k, IIRC.

Lyco will probably be selling upgrade kits, and if they don't then GAMI will. But only when the market is 100% ready.

This is aviation.... :)