Help required with aviation terminology

[Marp]

Newbie here and not sure if I'm posting in the right place, but here goes...

I'm a translator working on a TV series about an airline that runs old planes up in the Yukon (many of you may have seen it). The translation is Eng-Fr.

Most of the standard terminology can be found on internet, but a lot of it is slang or plain incomprehensible to most non-flying mortals.

Through experience, I know that bad translation is a complete turn-off when watching a TV series when you know the subject, and that's what I want to avoid in this case.

I was wondering if any good souls would be able to help me decipher some of the more obscure language used by the pilots. We're talking about DC3's DC4's C46's etc.. (pistonheads)

For example, the following exchange between pilot and copilot when taking off:
A:"One Five Four is fine in the back track."
B: "Check. One Five four on the right."

If it's easier (and so as not to waste bandwidth) it could be done off-forum.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you could provide

[Lightning Mate]

First of all one has to translate the usual incorrect (and often illegal) R/T from American into English.

Then we might get somewhere.

I'll try.....standby (that means wait and I will call you).

[forget]

Lightning Mate, isn't Marp asking for an accurate and direct translation, word for word, but with a common-sense check that his/her translated words would be used by pilots. Marp's not looking for what words should be used. If you get my drift. Anyway, it's not American; it's Canadian.

Marp, full marks for asking. :ok:

[PaperTiger]

Sounds like setting the bearing to a VOR etc. behind them.

154deg from somewhere = 334 to somewhere, (NNW). Sort of route Buffalo might take from CYZF.

Or something else entirely :O .

[Lightning Mate]

forget,

Yes, I understand what you are getting at.

However, the word "backtrack" means taxying on the runway in the reverse direction to take-off and landing. He states that the phrase was used during take-off.


Anyway, it's not American; it's Canadian

They are just as bad mate!!

[MarkerInbound]

I'm guessing "on the right" refers to a runway. When there are two parallel runways, they are referenced by their magnetic heading rounded to the nearest 10 degrees and then with a "left" or "right" added. Two runways headed 348 degrees would be "35 Left" and "35 Right."

[Lightning Mate]

This discussion just proves my point.

Try that kind of RT at Heathrow and you will soon learn.

Remember, poor RT has caused many accidents.

I remember being cleared for an ILS approach to runway 01. Clearance was "clear runway one" (Yank controller).

When I queried this, all I received was "clear runway one". I was tempted to ask where runways two and three were and whether the transmission was instructing another aeroplane to CLEAR runway zero one, which would have indicated that the runway was not clear.

Is that clear y'all? Y'all fly safe now, y'hear?

[forget]

"backtrack" means taxying on the runway in the reverse direction to take-off and landing. He states that the phrase was used during take-off.

It would be taxiing (back-tracking) prior to take-off - which all makes sense.

[Lightning Mate]

This is what the original poster said:


For example, the following exchange between pilot and copilot when taking off:

Sometimes I just give up.

[forget]

LM, Why are you chasing your tail? Check out the correct usage of the word 'however'. And you're offering interpretations.:hmm:

However, the word "backtrack" means taxying on the runway in the reverse direction to take-off and landing. He states that the phrase was used during take-off.

[aditya104]

@Marp U have posted your query in the Aviation History Forum. Good Choice. After all, the abovementioned RT conversation between pilot and co-pilot is not modern. Its history.

[sycamore]

Marp, it would help if there was some further `chat` to place the wording into a context; example, it could mean a heading check on the compasses whilst backtracking RW15 for T/O; It might also be a prompted transmission to ATC as well,or refer to a tail number as callsign,or possibly a last weight check or possibly ,if it`s a DC4,maybe a safety speed,or the heading to depart on or right turn to after T/O. A `snippet` is meaningless unless one has a bigger picture...

[Herod]

How's about a back-beam ILS, and he's setting it on the right (No.2) nav set? I know it's during take-off (or maybe taxy out), but it could be used to track the runway after departure.

[stepwilk]

"Marp, it would help if there was some further `chat` to place the wording into a context..."

Seems to me this is the only post so far that makes the slightest sense.

[chiglet]

Watched a few episodes for the a/c. Became bored very quickly with the backbiting, over-hyped commentary and ludicrus story lines. [Pax svc cnl due to no CC examiner. Bloke is chosen to train as examiner....:confused: Fails 1st time, but in the nick of tim, passes the exam.
Two CL215s to go to Greece...warched 1 1/2 episodes, haven't watched it since.
Oh yes, the R/T is crud

[Herod]

Marp; two possible solutions for you.

1. If this is an official project, why not contact Buffalo Joe direct? I'm sure he would welcome the extra coverage (and commision?) that a translated programme would provide.

2. Since the original programme was made for Canadian TV, there is presumably a sub-titled/dubbed version available for the residents of Quebec.

Good luck.

[spekesoftly]

The intercom and R/T soundtrack accompanying many aviation programmes is often generic, just to create the "flavour", and isn't necessarily directly syncronised with the events portrayed. So we can't assume that the pilot/copilot conversation actually took place during take-off.

Herod's suggestion seems the most hopeful.

[Exaviator]

Je ne comprends pas :confused:

[stepwilk]

"So we can't assume that the pilot/copilot conversation actually took place during take-off."

This is like playing Russian telegram, where each person whispers the original story into another's ear, and by the time it goes around the circle it bears no resemblance to the original story.

The only person on this thread who said anything about "takeoff" was the original poster, a non-aviation person who, by writing "when taking off," could have meant anything from pushback to liftoff. We haven't the faintest idea whether they were running checklists, taxiing, back-taxiing, position and hold, rolling, V1...

So everyone should continue to theorize about whether they were flying a back-course localizer, taxiing on a parallel runway (in the Northwest Territory???) or taking a bearing from over Sarah Palin's house. It's so much fun.

[evansb]

Runway 15/33 is the main runway at Yellowknife, NT, which is where Buffalo Airways is based, and where the quoted scene took place. The runway headings are 154 degrees, and 334 degrees. The co-pilot is most likely confirming and slaving (setting) his starboard (right side) DG as the aircraft back-tracks (back taxis) on runway 33. Also note the TV series "Ice Pilots" takes place mostly in the Northwest Territories, and not Yukon. FYI: I've over 37 years of aviation communication experience, and lived 2 years in Yukon, and 3 years in the NWT.

[PaperTiger]

Evansb has it I'd say. Setting 154 while in the backtrack (not during takeoff <slaphead smiley>).

[Marp]

Thanks for all your contributions.

I can't believe I wrote "Yukon"... of course it's the NWT, sorry to any I offended.

I'll go with the runway heading suggestion, since it sounds logical - they're still taxiing out.

As far as "other chat" goes, I only have to translate what's on the voice transcript (not always reliable) and the R/T subtitles that appear on screen (a lot of R/T is garbled and left aside)

I could call Buffalo Joe, but I probably couldn't afford his rates! There probably is a French version of the series, but I don't really have time to source it and in my experience there's no guarantee the guy who translated it did any better job than I'm doing.

Here's some more, if anyone can help:

On runway during take-off:
Pilot: "She's locked... We're rolling" (What's locked..?)

After take-off
Pilot: "Ninety five over eighty"

Lined up on runway, rolling (Copilot is getting in some flight time on the DC4):
Pilot: "Let's go to 30... Go to 30 with me now" (assume flaps...?)
Copilot: "Ok"
Pilot: "Thirty. Good on top. This ain't no 747 now" (I might just ignore that last bit)

Taxiing out (looks like from picture)
Cop : "Clear left.. clear right" (assume before crossing a taxiway)
Pil: "Taxi check this one here"
Cop: "Ok coming up"

ATC prior to landing. C46 has wheels down, turning to line up :
"Airport traffic Buffalo 301descending to the field" (according to transcript, but I'm sure it's wrong. It's more like:)
"Airport traffic to Buffalo 301.... (go for..?) the field"

Later on final:
Pilot: "She's got a good wing on her, I tell you"

Pilot: "This is a lock" (pointing to something to the right of the starboard throttle)
Newbie: "All the way up like that?"

That's about it for episode 3!

[stepwilk]

The easy one is the first question. What's locked is the tailwheel. (When you're taxiing, you want it to swivel freely like a caster, so the airplane can turn. When you turn onto a runway for takeoff, you line the airplane up with the runway heading and then lock the tailwheel, after moving forward a few feet to make sure it's aligned straight fore-and aft, because then you definitely -don't- want to turn.

"Ninety-five over 80," don't know.

"Let's go to 30" more likely refers to inches of manifold pressure, not flaps, since they're apparently on the takeoff roll and they certainly wouldn't want that much flap. i.e. they're advancing the throttles.

"Clear left/right" is simply a pilot's way of saying, "There's nobody on the left/right..."

"Taxi check this one here..." may just be an awkward way of saying, "Read me the taxi checklist now..." (Though a pilot would never say that and indeed would probably say something like simply "taxi check...") There are different checklists--startup, taxi, takeoff, climb, etc. etc.

"Airport traffic..." The first quote sounds correct to me, not your version. HE is Buffalo 301. He's not communicating with "ATC," he's simply broadcasting in the blind to anybody who can hear him that he, Buffalo 301, is descending to the airport. It's apparently a field without a tower, so everybody voluntarily broadcasts what they're doing ("turning downwind...turning base with the Cessna on final in sight...) on the airport's Unicom frequency, usually 122.9. Unicom has no regulatory traffic-control function, it's just an information frequency that the airport operator, or a lineboy, or the lineboy's girlfriend, whoever, talks on to give approaching pilots information on what runway is being used, what the wind strength and direction is, etc.

"She's got a good wing on her..." Just a semi-meaningless phrase an old-timer might use to say, in effect, that the airplane is stable, flies solidly, doesn't feel touchy...

"This is a lock..." Not sure what he means, but he's probably saying that a certain lever or knurled knob is used to friction-lock the throttle in whatever position it's in, so it can't creep back from vibration or whatever. The copilot's dialogue I'm guessing means "So you have to push it all the way up like that to make it lock?"

[evansb]

Dear Marp, I've noticed some responses to your post are not applicable to Canadian flight operations. Consider posting your queries on the Canadian aviation forum, at avcanada.ca.

[stepwilk]

I'm curious, evansb. Which of my responses are "not applicable" in Canada?

[Lightning Mate]

Here's some more, if anyone can help:

On runway during take-off:
Pilot: "She's locked... We're rolling" (What's locked..?)

After take-off
Pilot: "Ninety five over eighty"

Lined up on runway, rolling (Copilot is getting in some flight time on the DC4):
Pilot: "Let's go to 30... Go to 30 with me now" (assume flaps...?)
Copilot: "Ok"
Pilot: "Thirty. Good on top. This ain't no 747 now" (I might just ignore that last bit)




Taxiing out (looks like from picture)
Cop : "Clear left.. clear right" (assume before crossing a taxiway)
Pil: "Taxi check this one here"
Cop: "Ok coming up"

ATC prior to landing. C46 has wheels down, turning to line up :
"Airport traffic Buffalo 301descending to the field" (according to transcript, but I'm sure it's wrong. It's more likehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif
"Airport traffic to Buffalo 301.... (go for..?) the field"

Later on final:
Pilot: "She's got a good wing on her, I tell you"

Pilot: "This is a lock" (pointing to something to the right of the starboard throttle)
Newbie: "All the way up like that?"

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::mad::mad::mad:

I really really hope that this crap doesn't cost lives.

I NEVER FLY WITH AMERICAN OR CANADIAN AIRLINES.

I shall respond no further to this :mad:

[stepwilk]

Here's one to make Lightning Mate's skull explode:

Awhile ago, I was flying with a good friend, a senior USAir (at the time) captain. Nice day, Cessna 310Q, I was flying and Tom was working the radios. We were inbound from the southeast to my home base, Stewart Newburgh, north of New York City.

We requested a straight-in to Stewart's northwestbound runway, and the tower asked for our position.

Coincidentally, we had just cleared Storm King Mountain and were crossing the ridge where I lived.

So Tom answered, "Ah, we're over Steve Wilkinson's house."

Tower chuckled, told us to continue inbound, report a five-mile final.

[windriver]

Maybe this glossary will help...

Ice Pilots (http://www.icepilots.com/pilot_slang.php)

[Marp]

Thanks for that link!

[Marp]

Thanks for the feedback stepwilk.

With regard the ATC, it's definitely the field talking to the pilot. I think they might be saying something like "Airport traffic to Buffalo 301, looks good for (from?) the field" or something like that. As long as I put something credible in the subtitle, that's all I need - no-one's going to hear it when it's broadcast anyway!

For the lock, it sounds plausible. In fact the copilot goes on to negate his previous "Yes" by saying "Er no" (NOT all the way up), but it's not part of the subtitles to be translated and can barely be heard under the commmentary (just to make things easier!)

The 95 over 80 (or is it 8..?) remains a mystery so far. I'll just have to translate word for word for now.

Thanks again everyone. I'll get back to you with more as it comes up.

Hey - and brotherly love ok? We've all got our own opinions...

[Herod]

Lightning Mate, in case you're still reading this thread. These guys are not working for some big airline, where you have never met the other pilot before, and are taking an Airbus or similar into Heathrow. It's a small outfit, everyone knows everyone else, the aircraft are basic, and the airfields are sparsely populated with people who speak the same language as you. Of course they're going to be more laid-back about it; but no less professional for all that.