Flying to Bordeaux

[jayemm]

I'm thinking about flying (Warrior) to Bordeaux (Biscarosse) in order to take my 13 yr-old daughter to join a school outing (she can't go the day her friends go). She's flown before and is happy to fly the hours.

I was looking to go from Blackbushe to Cherbourg, then Cherbourg to Biscarosse (about 3 hours).

I've been as far as Le Touquet so far. Any advice?

[Yogi-Bear]

Eet is ne pas une problem. Si Cherbourg hav de brille, you can clear des Douanes a Rennes ou Nantes. But if you do, look carefully at their ICAO codes and don't swop them around, like I did once! "Rennes App, G-xxxx inbound from Soton". "Mais oui, you are going to Nantes". "Negative, Rennes". "Ah, ees ne pas une problem. I will call Nantes and tell then you are here". So helpful those Froggies. Not the slightest admonition for my boo-boo. Enjoy. :)

[2Donkeys]

Nice plan, and Biscarosse is a great little airfield if you don't mind a lot of glider activity at weekends.

The routing down that side of France is relatively clear of airspace issues and any sensible route, talking to the enroute Class D owners will work well.

Bordeaux Info and Brest Info are usually a cut above the thoroughly unhelpful Paris (nord) info, so whilst you won't get any kind of radar service, you'll have someone to provide you with weather and other information.

Feel free to drop me a line directly if you want/need more specific information

-2Donkeys

[Aussie Andy]

Just a question: Do most of the French controllers enroute speak English? I saw a crib-sheet the other day of "how to speak to ATC in French" - and I'm sorry, but even with a smattering of French I don't see how I would have sufficient spare mental capacity (!) to handle the jargon etc. whilst trying to aviate and navigate! Has put me off the idea of flying to France!

Andy

[skydriller]

Relax, English is spoken at most of the larger airfields, basicly, if its got an ATC then they probably speak English - seem to remember they do at biscarrosse. The only time you should need to speak any french is at uncontrolled airfields when you declare your intentions in french. I usually call the airfield before I go there to know if someone will speak English there.
I also second what was said above. Im based in the Bordeaux area, and Everyone is really helpful down here, even when you are not really sure where you are supposed to be or what you are supposed to be doing. Just ask Info or ATC if you dont know something, one of the instructors at my club is a controller at Merignac, he has regularly told me not to worry, just ask, talk to someone!

The only thing I can add (though Im sure you're doing this anyway) is make sure you know about the Restricted areas and Entry/Exit/Joining proceedures for the Bordeaux area, Eg. Arcachon/Cazaux/Biscarrosse, there is definitely alot of military activity during the week, but even weekends the restricted areas are active. The good news is you can request a crossing anytime and they are usually very civilised and accomodating.

Oh, one more thing, lunch in France is between 12 midday and 2pm (sometimes 3pm, eating is serious business in France!), so you wont be able to get fuel at this time.

Regards, SD.

[jayemm]

This is really helpful information and his given me more confidence for the trip. I was thinking of stopping at La Rochelle on the way down. Any knowledge about this?

[skua]

Don't do what I did when I went down to Bordeaux a year or 2 back. I was talking to Bordeaux info, and they were a bit slow. I thought they had given me clearence through the Cognac zone, but they hadn't - all the Alpha Jets and Magisters looked a bit surprised! It is busy down there, but I guess it is much quieter at weekends.

[jayemm]

Good though, thanks....I'm going in the week!

[Yogi-Bear]

La Rochelle? A lovely port and the airfield - ne pas une problem. Eengleesh spoken ere. :)
Which reminds me; overhead joins are unusual. Here, an American 'pattern' join is more likely. i.e. at 45 deg. into the downwind leg.

[This message has been edited by Yogi-Bear (edited 22 June 2001).]

[skydriller]

Yogi's right, the standard joining proceedure in France is a 45 degree join to downwind at circuit hieght, reporting joining downwind and then at downwind. But I have requested overhead joins/straight in approaches etc. in the past and this has been OK, as I said before, dont be afraid to ask, they are an obliging lot over here!

La Rochelle is a lovely town, nice airport. I also seem to remember that La Rochelle has a published joining proceedure though. If you want a less busy/relaxed, but English speaking airfield you could try nearby Royan, its got a nice little cafe too.

Regards, SD

[Southern Cross]

Concur about La Rochelle - lovely place, been there many times. You can get away with just a little Franglais with the refueling guy and the Tower most definitely speak English. As for joining, since it is a controlled field but usually little traffic, depending on the runway in use, I tended to join at whatever was the most expeditious point. So coming on a direct track from Nantes airspace, means right base for the westerly runway and left base for the easterly runway (can't remember the vectors). Never caused a problem since I almost invariably was the only aircraft in the circuit.

Parking overnight on the grass is free. Parking on the tarmac is not...

Caution: to the north of La Rochelle is a reasonably large swampy area - ie on the other side of the bay (the ariport lies on the south side of this large bay). In certain weather you will find low mist in this area - to avoid it extend east over the ocean otherwise you may find yourself in IMC close to the airport, which is never much fun but in fact you will generally find better conditions at the field, so don't divert too early!

Have fun.

[arrow2]

Jayemm,

Enjoy the trip - it is all much easier once you have done it for the 1st time.

Agree with everything said here so far. Also - get yourself a Bottlang VFR French guide - either the trip kit or the monthly updated version - from Transair. Trip kit is around £30 and worth its weight in gold for VFR in Froggieland.

Customs at Cherbourg is good, you may then wish to break the journey at La Rochelle, Nantes or somewhere. Also on the way back try Les Sables D'Olonne or Quiberon for a stop off / overnight.

Catch me at EGLK over the weekend for a general chat if you wish - ask Margaret in the cafe if Kevin is around.

A2

[A and C]

I have just come back from spain via la rochelle and have had no problems but you will save your self £50 each way if you pick up fuel in the channel islands,and remember that the french expect you to follow the VFR aproach that are published.

[AC-DC]

S.D
I plan a long flight that will take me to Southern France Italy and beyond. I will fly VFR and would like to be at FL 80 or higher if weather permits. From the map I see that half of France is restricted area. Can you advise where I can find information about activity, NOTAMS, etc? Also, how one deals with all of these restricted areas? Do you ask a permission to cross each one of them?
I have flown at the past down to La Rochelle and had no problems but it was over a weekend.
Thanks.

[skydriller]

AC-DC,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Im currently working away from home and as such dont have access at hand to the info you require. When are you planning to depart? I should be back in about a week and can look up stuff then if you want.

Personally, on my little trips around the south-west of France I can usually go over/under most restricted areas and it isnt a chore to call on the relavant frequency to request a crossing. Im not usually up as far as FL80. I get the info for each restricted area from a booklet the FNA send me which lists them all. (French flying clubs require you to join the FNA for insurance purposes). Latest NOTAMS etc. I get off of the minitel or fax at my club, again, I dont have numbers with me here.

Sorry Im not really being very helpfull, but I will happily get details next week for you if you want,

Regards, SD

[AC-DC]

Thanks S.D, it is planed for August (if all goes well).

[Montt]

Hello to all,

Just trying out this msg system as a new member

[skydriller]

AC-DC, Im finally home, and with a little extra info.

What I said some time back is basicly the way it works. In France you do need to call and request a crossing for each restricted area in much the same way as you would request crossing a Danger area in the UK, but you are seldom refused access. Similarly, you can ask the Flight Information Service for the region you are flying in for the activity status of all the restricted areas you wish to cross and if they dont give you the all clear, will hand you over to the frequency of who you do need to call. Obviously if its easy to plan around/over/under them then do so, hieght limits are on the 1:500000 chart I have, though I know alot of the time it initially looks like there is no way through. To be honest its not any more hassle than traversing controlled airspace.

You have probably already thought about getting/have Delage, but also a good idea is to get the french pack/booklet 'Documents VFR - Préparation de Suivi de Vol' , mine is from the Fédération Nationale Aeronautique(FNA), but you can also get it from the Service de l'information Aeronautique(SIA), who also provide the french AIP - This is the publication I was on about before which has informaation on all restricted areas etc.
Contact the FNA : Tel. +33 (0)1 44 29 92 00
www.fna.asso.fr (http://www.fna.asso.fr)
Contact the SIA : Tel.+33 (0)5 57 92 56 68
Email. [email protected]
Also try Transair?

For information before you fly over here its also a good idea to call the regional Flight assistance & information office (BRIA)and talk about your route, someone there will speak English. You can file flight plans directly with them and they can give you alot of info/advice on your route about all the above and NOTAMs etc. Because here, as you may know already, flightplans/NOTAMS are accessed by Minitel 3614, and as there is no minitel in the UK, I got the BRIA telephone numbers when at my flying club yesterday and have listed them below.

I hope this is of some help to you, and not too late for your trip.

Regards, SD.

Lille +33 (0)3 20 87 52 10
Bale Mulhouse +33 (0)3 89 90 26 15/12
Lyon +33 (0)4 72 22 56 76/77
Marseille +33 (0)4 42 31 15 65/14 22 90
Nice +33 (0)4 93 21 38 18
Ajaccio +33 (0)4 95 22 61 85
Toulouse +33 (0)5 62 74 65 31/32
Bordeaux +33 (0)5 57 92 83 31
Nantes +33 (0)2 40 84 84 75/80 45
Le Bourget +33 (0)1 48 62 53 07

BTW - I know the Bordeaux & Toulouse BRIA numbers work & they definitely speak English too, Ive called them when planning a trip myself and they are more than willing to help!! You will probably want to call Lille if coming from the UK.

[jayemm]

Just got back from my trip to Biscarosse (near Bordeaux). What a superb flight down there. The weather and visibility on Monday was superb, and the French Aviation Services couldn't be more friendly and helpful. La Rochelle is a great place to visit, and being directed above and below the military jets by Cazaux towards Biscarosse along the coast was thrilling.

I stopped at Rennes and Cherbourg on the way back, with landing fees around £2 (at an International Airport) and one overnight parking fee of £8. The weather was awful, but ATC was very helpful, giving me all the weather information I needed.

To cap it all, a stunning flight back across the channel today right through the middle of an anti-cyclone. "Surly bonds" and all that came to mind!

Thanks to everyone on this thread for the advice.

I'd recommend to those that haven't ventured south of Deauville or Le Touquet to get further south. It's not expensive, and France is always a delight.

[AC-DC]

SD
Thank for the info and sorry for the delay in my reply.
I think that I will try to fly at FL100 or a weekend when there is no activity :D
Thanks again
ACDC