Important points to be considered by a Student joining a canadian flight school

[lastdon]

To all professionals / students - In Canada.

Hello.

Firstly i hope this thread is raised in the correct forum. Pardon me if it isnt.

After speaking to the students personally, researching on PPRUNE and sending out PM's to the senior members, i have decided to pursue my flight training from: www.harvsair.com (http://www.harvsair.com)

I have a few questions / queries, for which i humbly request you all to provide me with some suggestions:

Here are a few to start with:

1. Are the months of November / December appropriate ones to start the training? The flight school is based out of Steinbach. So need to plan the start date accordingly.

2. As i have a few months of paper work for the VISA, would it be advisable for me to go through: Ground Studies for PILOTS (MET / NAV or Flight planning)? I understand that it would be difficult to understand much of technical information at first go..

3. As i come from Asia, what would be the ideal way to prepare for the cold weather training? I have at the most seen 4 degrees C temerature. So is there something which i need to "KEEP IN MIND"?

4. Is there a way in which i can constrain the cost of the training without compromising the quality? I mean i understand there is never a shortcut, but im looking for a smarter way of going about my training to save TIME and if possible MONEY.

Thats all for now. And i sincerely do apperciate ANY inputs from all you people out there. :)

- LD

[slam525i]

1. Winnipeg in December... wow... I haven't ever lived there myself, but the reputation amongst the rest of Canada is that anywhere in the prairie provinces during the winter is terrifyingly cold.

2. See if you can get the book "From the Ground Up" You'll be going through this book (or something very similar) during ground school and it has everything you need for the very basics. The other book you'll use is "Flight Training Manual" from Transport Canada, but I find it less useful.

3. Putting aside cold-weather operations for airplanes, for yourself, there's really not much. Jackets, boots, gloves, and things like that you can (should) buy here.

4. There really isn't any way to "save money" during flight training. Do read up on exercises and plans before you fly. Think about your flight after you've landed. There's ground-based simulators for part of your instrument time but I've never used one. Most importantly is to know what you're going to do before you do it, and make sure your instructor is clear on what you want to learn. I've had problems with instructors before, so I emphasize the need for clear communication.

[Raymond767]

Harv's Air is a good choice. My son is currently enrolled there taking his PPL.

Harv's has two operations, one in Steinbach and one at St. Andrew's Airport, 15 minutes north of Winnipeg. The facilities at St. Andrew's are excellent, as they took them over from the Winnipeg Flying Club several years ago. The quality of instruction and the level of professionalism is top-notch. My son's first instructor was hired away last summer to train the Canadian military pilots at Portage La Prairie. Training there in July could be problematic, as they host about 20 Air Cadets, so getting an instructor and/or an airplane during that month alone is difficult. They generally finish by the first week of August.

There is absolutely no reason to not start training in the winter months. Operations are necessarily more difficult, but the weather is usually favourable to training, with most days being VFR. TRaining aircraft are usually kept in the large hangar overnight.

Regarding study materials, you might consider signing up for the on-line training some time in advance of your arrival, in order that you get a handle on several of the basics across the discipline, including theory of flight, aviation meteorology, navigation etc. The on-line training is accredited, and can be used to minimize the actual time required to be spent in a classroom or alternatively, with an instructor one-on-one.

Without any doubt, the best way to keep the costs down is to dedicate yourself fully to the training for a fixed period of time, and stick with one instructor only. Two lessons per day, six or seven days a week, until complete. Large gaps between training sessions means that a lot of time is spent, with the meter running, going back over previous lessons.

One other thing. Get your medical up front by a medical practitioner that will be recognized by Transport Canada. No point in getting here and starting flying only to find out that you have some previously unknown medical impairment that would preclude you from being able to pursue your chosen goals.

[lastdon]

@ Slam / Raymond.

Thank you for your time and reply.

Yes medicals is something i should consider before reching Canada.

@ Slam: Yes i have heard that it is going to be very cold during the year end and it might be that the training also is affected.

As of now im just hoping to get my VISA and in the meanwhile also get the book as you've suggested.

Thanks again :ok:

-LD

[Raymond767]

I spoke last night with the Air Cadet officer who is responsible for the cadets at St. Andrews. He advises that both Harv's locations have facilities to billet students, and that both facilities are fully booked with Air Cadets in July. This summer only female Air Cadets will be using St. Andrews.

The Steinback airport has only one runway, whereas the St. Andrews airport not only has three runways, but is in a positive control zone, with an ATC tower. There obviously is some benefit to training at a controlled airport, and with three runways, the chances of crosswind limits for ab initio training being exceeded are very low.

[lastdon]

Dear Raymond,

I understand that at Steinbach, there isnt any landing fees (i hope thats what they call). And St Andrews has this thing.

Is it a good idea to be exposed to controlled air space right from the beginning of one's training?

Im done with filling my application, and need to dispatch it to harvsair. The only choice im stuck with is the LOCATION. St Andrews or STBACH?

Thank you
-LD

[Raymond767]

Harv's does not charge for landing fees. Regardless of location, their rental rates are the same.

The more experience that you have, and the earlier that you get it, with respect to ATC, the better. When you integrate it right into your training from day one, it is not a problem.

[lastdon]

That solves it for me. :ok: St Andrews....it is.

Just sending across all the information / application today.

Thanks RMD....

[North Shore]

Don't forget that instructors might be difficult to find for the week around Christmas.

I wouldn't worry too much about the cold wx - you'll figure it out soon enough once you get here. If it's a little too overwhelming, you can always run inside to warm up. The nice thing is that it is usually sunny when it is cold. Long underwear is useful, as is a pair of thin gloves. (they'll give you some protection, but not compromise your sense of touch. I once tried to fuel up my plane without using gloves. Three or four minutes of bare fingertips on the fuel nozzle left me with three slightly frostbitten fingers. Gloves would have prevented that.)

My inclination would be to go to Steinbach first. Why? The first few lessons can be overwhelming - all sorts of things are getting thrown at you. If you simplify it a little by going to a place where there's no ATC, then that's one less thing to deal with right off the bat. Give it 10-15 hours (solo done?) and then move up to St.A. BY that time, controlling the a/c should be coming along well, and you'll be able to devote more brain power to the radio comm.

Treat your training like it is a job (that's what you want it to become, right?) Show up on time with your homework done (read the upcoming lesson plan) and ready to go. You might have a few questions for your instructor - ASK THEM! There are no silly questions. If it is unclear what is expected of you, or what you are doing, you are wasting your time and money by continuing without clarification. I'd try to get into a rhythm of a few days on, and then one off, and so on. You can consolidate your book learning on a day off, and take a mental break..

Somewhere along the way you'll have to do a 300NM x-c flight for your CPL. DON'T just do the minimum 300nm. This is the only time in your career that you'll have your own aeroplane with no-one telling you where and when to go. Take the plane for a week, and head out to the west coast, or down into the USA, or further east in Canada. You'll learn more in a day than you will in a month of the same practice area around Winnipeg..

Good luck! Have fun!:ok:

[Firestorm]

If you are worried about the winter weather then wait till next Spring. Spring and summer on the Prairie is fantastic, and there is more than enough time to get through all your courses. I did all my training between May and September at Gimli about 18 years ago. I had a great time. What ever you decide I am sure that you will too. Canada is a great country, and Manitoba a wonderful Province.

[ehwatezedoing]

Alternatively, if a student plan to look for a flying job in Canada right after his training he would be better timing the end of it around March/April.

Best hiring period of the year usually....If any :suspect:

[lastdon]

Don't forget that instructors might be difficult to find for the week around Christmas.

I wouldn't worry too much about the cold wx - you'll figure it out soon enough once you get here. If it's a little too overwhelming, you can always run inside to warm up. The nice thing is that it is usually sunny when it is cold. Long underwear is useful, as is a pair of thin gloves. (they'll give you some protection, but not compromise your sense of touch. I once tried to fuel up my plane without using gloves. Three or four minutes of bare fingertips on the fuel nozzle left me with three slightly frostbitten fingers. Gloves would have prevented that.)

My inclination would be to go to Steinbach first. Why? The first few lessons can be overwhelming - all sorts of things are getting thrown at you. If you simplify it a little by going to a place where there's no ATC, then that's one less thing to deal with right off the bat. Give it 10-15 hours (solo done?) and then move up to St.A. BY that time, controlling the a/c should be coming along well, and you'll be able to devote more brain power to the radio comm.

Treat your training like it is a job (that's what you want it to become, right?) Show up on time with your homework done (read the upcoming lesson plan) and ready to go. You might have a few questions for your instructor - ASK THEM! There are no silly questions. If it is unclear what is expected of you, or what you are doing, you are wasting your time and money by continuing without clarification. I'd try to get into a rhythm of a few days on, and then one off, and so on. You can consolidate your book learning on a day off, and take a mental break..

Somewhere along the way you'll have to do a 300NM x-c flight for your CPL. DON'T just do the minimum 300nm. This is the only time in your career that you'll have your own aeroplane with no-one telling you where and when to go. Take the plane for a week, and head out to the west coast, or down into the USA, or further east in Canada. You'll learn more in a day than you will in a month of the same practice area around Winnipeg..


Thanks NS...

I certainly do understand the importance of asking when in doubt. I have been an instructor myself (IT field). So certainly i wont assume anything, Make sure im well prepared prior to any classroom training.

I did ponder over the thought of selecting STBACH first and then moving onto St. Andrews. But sent across my application a day before yesterday.

This certainly makes sense, that having less load initially can give me some time to handle the airplane. Lets see how it unfolds......

Also,

Can a student pilot in Canada fly into US? I thought that as an expat student, i would have to get myself a US student VISA...:}

Im really looking forward to visiting Canada. And most importantly get back to good ol school days!!

Thank you all for your valuable inputs. I really appreciate.

- LD

[North Shore]

Student pilot into the USA? Errrr, I dunno? The border has been tightened noticeably since September 2001, so I'd think that you'd probably need a visa of some sort, depending upon where you are from...

[b737NGyyc]

Can a student pilot in Canada fly into US? I thought that as an expat student, i would have to get myself a US student VISA...

Being a student pilot or not is irrelevant everyone has to abide by the entry requirements set forth by the US Customs and Border Protection. It is dependant on the country your passport is issued by. Try this link to start with, you may or may not require to apply for a visa in advance, this is dependant again on your country of citizenship.

Admission into United States - CBP.gov (http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/legally_admitted_to_the_u_s.xml)

[Raymond767]

Can a student pilot fly into the USA?

Short answer:

Licence-wise, all Canadian aviation documents meet ICAO standards, and are recognized by all ICAO signatory countries, including the USA.

Long answer:

1. Why would you want to? Take the bus, drive or buy an airline ticket instead. Much, much less problematic. An approved training course is for training, not adventure.

2. It is unlikely that any Canadian flying school would permit a student pilot to deviate from the geographical and technical limits of their training programs by allowing the student to operate their aircraft across the border, even assuming that the aircraft carried insurance to do so.

3. All entrants to the USA must satisfy the legal entry requirements, including a valid visa for citizens of countries for which the USA requires a visa--the mode of arrival into the country is irrelevant; and

4. There are flight planning notification requirements (minimum 24 hour advance notice via approved filed documentation) to operate an aircraft across the border into USA airspace.

[pittss2b]

In regards to flying into the USA. We can and do fly into the United States. We encourage pilots who are building flight time to fly into the USA presuming their visa/citizenship allows them to. A person who holds a student pilot permit can't be pilot in command outside of Canada. He/she would have to hold at least a Private Pilot Licence to be pilot in command outside of Canada. We'll help the pilot get the paperwork procedures correct. Overall there are a few hoops to jump through but it's a good experience. Any Commercial pilot will fly into other countries in their flying career, better to get familiar with cross border operations during training, rather then later stumble through it on the first Commercial flying job.

In regards to which location, both have pros and cons. There is no "best" location. One doesn't have to stay at one location, some students do their PPL at Steinbach (because it's more efficient), and finish at St. Andrews to gain experience with controlled airspace. We started at Steinbach 1973, and then St. Andrews in 2005. It allows us to offer a lot of options to students. We also move airplanes, instructors, examiners, and mechanics back and forth to best serve the students at the moment. In my mind we are one big school, not 2 schools. It's 20 mins by air, and/or 1 hour by driving apart from each other.

We do get winter, but we have the technology to deal with it. Specifically warm hangers and heated cowling covers. The advantage of flying in winter is that the air is smooth, no thunderstorms, air is clearer, night flying is easier. The weather in MB in winter is general clear and cold. We are colder then the coasts of Canada, but we have significantly more visual flying weather. A warm jacket, gloves, hat, and a open mind will make the experience a positive one. The best experience is to fly over the change of seasons so that you experience both seasons and their pro/cons. Commercial pilots needs to be comfortable with summer and winter operations. Both the Canadian Air Force and the US Air Force (100 km south of the border) have training in our area for this reason.

Anyways the moderator might get upset with me for posting this, if you have more questions [email protected]

Adam

[lastdon]

Hi,

As per the link and the immigration website, there is some paperwork involved for entry in the United States. It is possible though, but got to get all the requirements...... cant really complain.....every country got to secure their borders. Just that me got too excited, wondering if i could meet my friends in the US who are doing their MBA...... :}

Back to the thread.....@ Adam: I have most of the info with me and thanks to the people around here, i feel much more being aware of how things would be when i start there.

Just left with finishing off the last hurdle of the application process and then work on the VISA and stuff.....

Hope to spend my X'mas out there......:ok:

- LD