How does a novice judge an instructor?

[siwalker66]

I am in the process of choosing a school for my PPL. I have always wanted to fly but up to now felt I would be unable to for health reasons. I have no intention of pursuing a flying career.. .. .Maybe a more pertinent question than 'which school?' is 'which teacher?'. .. .How would you advise a total novice who has never since childhood been in a light aircraft to judge if an instructor is good? . .Are older instructors better than youger ones who have not long ago done their own PPL's?. .. .(See the 'rant' thread in this forum). .. .Thankyou for any advice that may be forthcoming; I have been wanting to fly for a long time and I want to give myself the best chance.

[Whirlybird]

chickenhawk,. .. .Very good question. Nearly 4 years after getting my PPL(A), I'm still not sure of the answer, but I can give you some of my thoughts.. .. .I've heard it said that older, more experienced instructors may be the best, but on the other hand may be a bit jaded and losing interest. On the other hand, the newer instructor may be less experienced, but has done an instructors course more recently, and may be more enthusiastic. But from my own experience, I think I'd pick the more experienced instructor every time, other things being equal.. .. .Pick someone you feel you can get on with on a personal level; personality clashes in the air are not to be recommended. . .. .If you can find out, pick a career instrutor rather than an hours builder; he/she will be less likely to leave to get another job at a crucial part of your training.. .. .See if you can find out how long instructors tend to stay, and ask whether you'll get the instructor you ask to have - you can't do that everywhere. Otherwise you may get a succession of them with little continuity. . .. .At the best schools the CFI takes an interest in every student, and will fly with them at intervals to check how newer instructors are doing. I think this is less common in f/w than helicopter schools, but it's worth checking.. .. .Ask around; find out what other people think about both the school and the instructor. This isn't always reliable, but it helps.. .. .Don't be afraid to complain, or change instructor, or even change school, if you're not satisfied. You are the paying customer; the school and instructor are not doing you a favour.. .. .That's all I can think of for now, but I hope you get some more answers. Good luck!

[tinyrice]

Titch - to a point I agree with you;a personable instructor who can communicate both in the air and on the ground is the way to go. I was trained up to solo by the CFI but then turned over to five different instructors in as many hours. Now this I don't recommend as I never flew the same way twice. I'd finally sort out how to land instead of attack from low level, and the next hour I was being "encouraged" to do it differently. I was ready by to give it away when I was rescued by an instructor who cared about aviation, was good at it, and wanted me to to be good at it too. You're dead on with the briefings, I knew what we were going to do and where. He was an "hours builder" but I was proud to call him a friend, and prouder yet when he made it to the left seat of a 146. He may have been the exception because he was an exceptional bloke.

[Who has control?]

Having only ever had one instructor I can speak from great inexperience!!. .. .I got on really well with him, he's about 20 years older than me, been in aviation most of his life and we always stop for a chat when our paths cross. . .. .So IMHO, find an instructor you like (you going to spent 40 hours or so in close proximity) and stay with them. Ensure the club doesn't roster you with whichever instructor is free.

[sennadog]

I can only second what has aleady been said. Just as in "normal" life find an instructor that you can get on with and stick with him/her.. .. .I would strongly recommend sticking with that instructor until the course has been completed as opposed to chopping and changing as this can only lead to confusion!

[FlyingForFun]

All good advice so far.. .. .In my opinion, getting along with your instructor is the most important thing - and also the easiest to judge from a first meeting. Every instructor can fly, and has a basic understanding of teaching, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to qualify as an instructor.. .. .You'll be spending a large amount of time in a very small space with this person - you want to make sure it's someone who you won't mind being in a small space with. You'll need to make you can have good two-way communication - this will not only be important when the instructor is teaching you to fly, but will also mean you can make small-talk with your instructor during the lessons, which will make them more pleasant and relaxed, and you'll perform better.. .. .I've heard lots of people say that flying with hour-builders is not as good as flying with career instructors. The two main instructors I flew with were both hour-builders. I can honestly say that I could not have been happier with them.. .. .In both cases, they loved their jobs, and respected their students. I was never taken flying in unsuitable conditions - in fact, I once heard my instructor criticise the school's chief instructor (a career instructor) for taking a student flying in bad weather.. .. .The first instructor was offered an airline job when I had about 40 hours and was close to getting my PPL. In the time that I knew him, I never heard anyone who had a bad word to say about him, as a pilot, instructor or person, and I made sure I was one of the first to congratulate him when I heard about his new job. He talked to the school about the possibility of contuining to teach part time, just to get me and a couple of other nearly-complete students through our skills test, but unfortunately, this idea didn't work out, so I had to find a new instructor. I attended his leaving party, and the club was completely packed with students and ex-students who had come to wish him good luck - it took me about 1/2 hour to fight my way through the crowds to speak to him, and he had to turn down my offer of a drink because he already had several pints lined up which other people had bought him!. .. .My second instructor finished off my PPL training, and we became good friends in the few hours we flew together. Like my first instructor, she was always 100% professional, loved her job, and although she makes no secret of the fact that she's hour-building, she would never take anyone flying in unsuitable conditions. She was a recently-qualified instructor when she came to the school, and I had the pleasure of being in the operations room with her when she had her first opportunity to send a student solo. She was more nervous than the student, and once the student was safely on the gound, she almost burst into tears - it was clearly a very proud moment for her. It's because of her professionalism, and the fact that we get on so well, that I asked her to do my tail-dragger check-out, and she also recently did my cross-channel check-out (a requirement of the school if you want to take their aircraft cross-channel).. .. .Part of the reason why flying with hour-builders worked for me was the school I was with. Being at a large school with several instructors has several advantages.. .. .If your instructor is away for any reason (illness, holiday, etc.) the school will be able to arrange a different instructor for you to fly with for the day. The school will insist on proper student records being kept, so a new instructor should know exactly what stage of your training you're up to, and what your regular instructor wanted you to do next.. .. .If you do need to find a new permanent instructor, there'll be several for you to choose between. Not all instructors will be right for you. (Not that they'll be bad instructors - there might just be a personality clash, or a different teaching style that doesn't fit in with your learning techniques.) You may have had a chance to fly with several instructors already (as I mentioned above, if your regular instructor was away for any reason), in which case you might have an idea who you want to fly with. Although the school will generally re-allocate students themselves if an instructor leaves, if you ask for a particular instructor, you should get that instructor.. .. .Wow, didn't expect to make the reply this long!!! But good luck in finding a school/instructor you like, and make sure you have fun! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .FFF. .----------

[Penguina]

Don't know if it's such a bad thing necessarily to change instructors mid-PPL - I did just as things were getting stale and I was doing circuit after circuit, and the change of perspective really shook me out of the rut. So perhaps it's not the end of the world if you do make a bad decision (or have one made for you). That said, it took a little bit of expensive airbourne time to change to the new bloke's ideas on how it's done. . .. .But how are you supposed to know except in hindsight whether your first instructor is any good? I don't think you can. What you're looking for, I suppose, is someone who really takes you on as a project.. .. .I reckon a nice friendly club is nearly as important as the actual instructor - maybe one will lead to the other.

[Whirlybird]

The problem is that you really can't tell. You know if you get on with the person. You know if they're interested in you and prepared to spend time with you. But I look back now at my first instructor for my PPL(H). He seemed to be all of those things. It took me a lot of hours to realise that he didn't know a lot about instructing, and really wasn't teaching me very well. He may have been a nice guy, but he didn't know that much about flying helicopters, never mind passing it on. Now, as a wannabe instructor myself, I have a certain amount of sympathy for his difficulties; teaching people to fly helicopters must sometimes feel like an interesting way to commit suicide! And he didn't have that many more hours than I've got now. But at the time, when I realised I wanted to change instructors, I was angry, and also blamed myself for being taken in by him. But how could I have known? The answer is that I couldn't. That's why it's a good idea to fly with someone more experienced like the CFI once in a while. It was during my solo check ride that I realised things weren't going as well as I'd thought, and I think everyone else did too. But it shouldn't have had to take that long.

[Saab Dastard]

Chickenhawk,. .. .Don't be afraid to ask to fly with different instructors. . .. .Sticking with one has its benefits in terms of consistency, particularly in the very early stages, but flying regularly with 1 or 2 other instructors can be very useful.. .. .You can get the benefit of seeing different techniques and approaches to flying, different ways of explaining things, different ways of criticising your flying, even! . .. .I have flown regularly with 3 different instructors and have been very happy to do so, and I think I have learnt more from doing so.. .. .Of course if you find an instructor that you particularly enjoy flying with then by all means stick with them!. .. .Good luck. .. .SD

[kougar]

I've just got one simple point, I'd like to highlight. Just because an instructor has a white beard, and a relaxed manner doesn't mean he's been flying and teaching since the days ponteaus was a pilot. He may be 60 yrs old, learn to fly at 58, as a retirement plan, and is as quietly anxious about the first few lessons as the students. But again this doesn't mean that he couldn't be very good. I believe If your instructor loves what he does and wants to share that with you, as long as he also has credibility, what more can you ask for. Apart from insurance against the school that you paid over your life savings to, going bankrupt that is. Also don't except being shove around without a care. I only had one instructor, but a change can be a good thing, as long as it's a considered change, not a constant change of necessity. Sorry that was a bit more than one simple point.

[LowNSlow]

In the school where I started (and finally finished) my PPL I flew with the CFI and one other instructor initially which I enjoyed because they had different techniques and strengths. The staff (all 3 of them) were total enthusiasts. As the school rapidly expanded they continued to recruit enthusiastic hourbuilders of varying ages and backgrounds. As far as I was concerned they were all flying enthusiats and capable of communicating their enthusiasm which is the most important thing of all.

The school also changed their main aircraft type during this period but I regarded this as a good opportunity to broaden my experience. They also took on a C152 which was handy cos my work moved to West Wales temporarily. There I did a large chunk of my PPL on C150/2's before returning to my original school.

By the time I finished my PPL I'd flown the ARV-2, AA5-A, C150/152 and a few trips in a C172 when the C152 was u/s. I flew with 4 different instructors. Total time was 48 hours which wasn't too bad considering the dislocation and my inability to learn things :D

I thoroughly enjoyed doing it like this although I realise that a lot of people would hate it.

[carbheatcold]

Go and spend some time in the clubs you are considering, if you haven't already, as it might give you an insight into their whole operations and importantly the atmosphere.
Talk to some of the other students discreetly, I think when you are spending a lot of money, investing a couple of hours prior is time well spent. Obviously if you go on a bad weather day it should encourage the instructors to invest a little of their time in you without them rushing off to go flying.
As others have said don't be afraid to request another instructor, remember its YOUR money.

Good luck.