FAA v CAA Again !

[andyt]

As I understand it, if you go over to the USA with your UK PPL they will issue you with a temporary certificate to use while you are there. Once back in the UK an FAA PPL will land on your doormat a few months later , with something along the lines of "certificate is valid as long as UK PPL is kept up to date/current"
Well my question is, how do you obtain an 'Full blown' FAA PPL, one which does not 'ride on the back' of your UK one ?
When I go over to do my FAA IR , because I will have had to pass a theory exam and pass a flight test will that give me a stand alone FAA licence.
Your comments will be much appreciated.

[Noggin]

You take the PPL examinations and flight test, exactly as you would have to in the UK. You will also need a valid FAA Medical and will have to meet FAA revalidation criteria. The IR Tests are quite seperate and relate only to the IR, which you can use in an N registered aircraft with your Restricted licence

A stand alone FAA PPL even with an IR will not give you any additional privileges. You cannot use it in a G registered aircraft.

[This message has been edited by Noggin (edited 17 June 2001).]

[Julian]

...to a poitn Noggin.

If you hold a full FAA IR then your may exercise IMC priveldges in a G Reg aircraft.

The moral of the story is that if you want an IMC qulification, go do the FAA IR as its the same price and you will come out of it a much better pilot (and if you goto the US you can fly under full priveldges!)

Julian.

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Live fast..die young...leave a good looking corpse!

[bookworm]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">If you hold a full FAA IR then your may exercise IMC priveldges in a G Reg aircraft.</font>

Not so Julian.

You may exercise the privileges of any ICAO licence for private flights on G-reg aircraft in the UK, but not within controlled airspace under IFR. That means that IFR flights in class D and E airspace are not permitted for FAA IR holders, but are permitted for CAA IMC rating holders.

It used to be the case (and probably still is) that the CAA would issue you with an IMC rating if you converted an FAA PPL/IR. But that's not the same thing as exercising the privileges without a conversion.

[englishal]

quote:
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If you hold a full FAA IR then your may exercise IMC priveldges in a G Reg aircraft.
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Is so!

I wrote to the CAA to confirm, and they wrote back and sent my document GID No. 15 which states that (under exemptions) :-

Pilots who have held a civil or military IR at some time in the last 10 years before the date of application for IMC rating are exempt from the requirement to undergo a formal course of flight or ground training

and

An applicant who has held a civil or military IR at some time in the last 5 years before date of application for IMC rating are exempt from taking the ground exams

and

An applicant who has held a civil or military IR or UK CPL or ATPL in the 2 years preceding the date of application for IMC rating is exempt from taking the initial flight test and written examination.

So you see a holder of an FAA IR is automatically exempt from taking ground exams, training course and flight test....ie. they get the IMC issued straight away.....This comes direct from the CAA...

[This message has been edited by englishal (edited 18 June 2001).]

[englishal]

One more thing regarding FAA PPL.....not sure why you want to 'de-restrict' the FAA PPL, unless you're going to let your JAA one lapse. A 'restricted' FAA PPL is as good as a de-restricted one, the only difference being that your ratings from the JAA PPL are carried over to the FAA one. The FAA PPL allows a pilot to fly at night as part of the training is carried out at night, but if you have a JAA PPL but no night rating, your FAA PPL won't allow you to fly at night.

You can build onto a 'restricted' PPL, for example do the FAA IR then your FAA PPL is marked as 'test passed'. Like Noggin said, if you want to derestrict your PPL then you have to do the ground exams and flight test. One interesting thing though, if you carry out further training in the USA, eg do an FAA CPL then this superceeds the PPL and you will be issued a 'proper' CPL with out having to do the PPL exams and flight test.

Another point, if you do your JAA licence in the states and pass, you cannot get a FAA PPL until you have your JAA licence in your hand (ie CAA have processed it)....well you can get it but should you get ramp checked, you have to produce you JAA PPL as well and if you haven't got it, and you're still flying on a student permit with passengers, you're screwed!

[bookworm]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">So you see a holder of an FAA IR is automatically exempt from taking ground exams, training course and flight test....ie. they get the IMC issued straight away.....This comes direct from the CAA...</font>

All true, englishal, but that's not what Julian suggested.

The CAA will issue you an IMC rating for a PPL based on an FAA PPL IR. But you can't roll up with an FAA/IR, jump into a G-reg aircraft and fly IFR in controlled airspace. You have to have a UK licence issued if you want to exercise the privileges of the IMC rating.

By contrast, you can roll up with an FAA PPL jump into a G-reg aircraft and fly it VFR. No conversion/issue/validation/paperwork required.

[englishal]

I think thats what Julian meant, JAA/CAA PPL holder with FAA IR can get the IMC rating 'for free'.

Mind you can roll up with FAA PPL/IR and fly an N reg plane IFR.

[Noggin]

In other words what I said was correct.

[Julian]

English is right in what I meant, I apologise Noggin for not being clearer.

But yes, come home with your FAA IR the necessary paperwork with the CAA and you can have an IMC to pootle about with.

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Live fast..die young...leave a good looking corpse!

[pilotwolf]

What concerns me though is WHY the CAA won't just convert the FAA IR to a CAA/JAA IR without the fuss?

If the rating is good enough for all the 100's of USA airline pilots flying to and from the UK everyday, with 100's of pax on board, (and lets face it most of them do actually get here!, why isn't it consider good enough to fly a G reg a/c in IFR conditions?

Imagine the look on a 20,000 hrs FAA ATP who is told that his rating is on really equivalant to a 'pretend' IR rating.

[floppyjock]

Pilotwolf.
The reason can be summarized up in one word. MONEY.

[Julian]

Yep, saw someone post JAR on here as 'Just Additional Revenue' - made me smile :)

But unfortunately at the end of the day thats the bottom line...

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Live fast..die young...leave a good looking corpse!