IMC or FAA IR?

[Aussie Andy]

I've read with interest the "Is it time to ditch JAA?" thread at http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum53/HTML/000592.html - was interested in the idea expressed that one may as well do FAA IR instead of the IMC because it a) costs about the same, and b) is more generally useful around the world. I have a couple of questions regarding this:

1) Can you do an FAA IR here in the UK?

2) Can you use it in G- registered aircraft in the UK?

Thanks,


Andy

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"Andy sang, Andy watched, Andy waited 'til his billy boiled..." (It was written for me!)

[humpty]

Thinking of doing something similar once I pass the PPL (should be a couple months) and spend a few weeks in the states in the winter.

If you do an FAA IR, I understand that the CAA will give you a 'free' IMC, but what happens to the hours you do on the FAA IR course? Are they all PUT? Or P1/S? Basically do they count towards your total P1/PIC hours?

[Noggin]

There is no FAA IR training in the UK the nearest FAA examiner is in Germany.

You cannot exercise the privileges of a FAA IR in a UK registered aircraft.

All hours conducted on a training course are PUT. P1S would only apply to the test if you pass it.

[Flybywyre]

I would say it is far better to do the FAA IR. The training is more comprehensive, you can fly N reg aircraft over here full IFR (airways) and it is also handy when you go back to the states and want to do some flying.
What you must remember though is whatever you decide instrument flying should be practiced on a regular basis.
Regards
FBW

[AC-DC]

Noggin
Wrong, there are 4-5 FAA IR instructors in the UK.

[floppyjock]

Humpty.
The IMC is not free, the CAA still charge you £64, Ive just done it. Aussie Andy I would say its far cheaper to fly to the states and do the training. At about $60 or less per hour for a C172 and no landing fees etc you cant go wrong.

[Aussie Andy]

OK,

Thus far I understand that I can do the FAA IR in the states, and that it will also gain me a UK IMC (for a fee).

Can I do the FAA IR course if I have only a JAR PPL, or do I first need to get an FAA PPL somehow?

Andy

[humpty]

floppyjock, thanks for the clarification. However, from my recent experience starting off in aviation, anything that costs less than a grand is effectively free! And as a fellow scotsman, I'm sure you can appreciate how much it hurts even to type something like that!

(humpty retires wounded to count his dwindling pile of pennies...)

Aussie, apologies for the mild hijack of the thread (well, maybe not hijack, how about piggyback?!), but maybe some of this helps you too.

[humpty]

Oh, and what I had meant to add was that, as far as I understand, you turn up in the US with your JAR license and medical and then go to the local FAA office (think you might need an FAA class 3 medical also) and they give you a 'restricted' license. It's restricted in that you're only allowed to do whatever is allowed on your JAR license (IMC not counting since it's UK only).

So the answer to your question about needing an FAA PPL is yes, but there's not a lot to getting it and no flying needed (although I guess you'll still need to do a check out before renting a plane and, for me at least, I think a couple hours practice on the US R/T and procs would be a real good idea)

[Jolly Tall]

Can anyone suggest some US training establishments which do the IR and approx costs?

[floppyjock]

Jolly Tall
I did my FAA IR at Voyager Aviation in Titusville FL and can recommend them. Very friendly with accomodation in town and they provide a car for students living in the house. The costs depands on the amount of hours you need to do. Minimum is 40hrs to hold the licence I think. Work on $54 per hour for a C172 or warrior and $20 for the instructor plus tax. You can do up to 10 hours training on a simulator which counts towards your hours and its only $20 an hour.
Try their UK number 01732 354320 or mail me for any more info.

Floppyjock

[Julian]

Aussie,

I am off in October to take the FAA IR, I can give you some rough figures to work with.

Course if 45 hours (upto 20 of which may be in a sim if required), cost $3,300 (using an IR certified C172).

You must EXIT the course with 50 hours XC.

You will, as already stated, be able to apply for a UK IMC rating when you get home.

Currency requires within the preceeding 6 months you must have intercepted and tracked courses through the use of navigation systems, performedd holding procedures, and flown at least 6 instrument approaches. Once you reach this 6 month limit you have 6 months to complete the requirements before you must undertake a proficency check. The good news is that you are allowed to do all of the above in a approved flight sim/training device! So much cheaper!!!

On the domestic side, bank on approx $25 a night for a room and about the same again for food/beer :)

Beats £10,000 for a CAA IR... :)

Julian.

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Live fast..die young...leave a good looking corpse!

[englishal]

As a side not to Julian.....the 50 hrs X/C...these 50 hrs MUST be over 50nm from start, anything under 50 miles won't count !

[Simon W]

Not sure if you can train for the FAA IR in this country but here is the official word on the requirements for flying/training in the US:

http://www.awp.faa.gov/fsdo/foreign.htm

Basically aslong as your JAA PPL and Medical certificates are current then you will NOT be required to take any theoretical/flight training. Apparently you just toddle into the nearest FAA office and about 20 minutes later you have a temporary FAA airmens certificate. You even get sent a proper FAA airmens certificate to your address back in the UK. All for a small fee. It just once again goes to show how much the CAA seem to rip you off.

You cannot use IR priveleges on a UK reg'd aircraft, just IMC. You'll have to find a club that has a N reg'd aircraft (which I recall seeing someone post that they do exist in the UK for rent) to exercise full IR priveleges.

I have to stress, these points may be wrong but I did spend some time looking into it and a number of sources said that the above was correct.

Regards,

Simon

[This message has been edited by Simon W (edited 19 June 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Simon W (edited 19 June 2001).]

[Julian]

Simon, I think there are a couple of schools around the UK who teach FAA courses but they are few and far between. There is one based at Glouscester, I think called Anglo-American Aviation.

Julian

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Live fast..die young...leave a good looking corpse!

[Simon W]

Pilot Flight Training here in the UK do FAA ratings. Website below:

http://www.pilotflighttraining.co.uk/

[supertyke]

I have just completed the FAA unrestricted ME/CPL/IR at Orlando Flight Training in Florida. I can recommend them, the instructors work very hard at getting you through. You do have to demonstrate a higher standard than for a UK IMC rating. I had to fly back course ILS, DME arcs and quite a bit of NDB. I am told the check ride is every bit has hard as the UK IR check ride and. You can do the flight training at a UK FAA approved school such as Solo Flight at Humberside airport. However the check ride has to be with an FAA examiner. I am told there is one in Germany, otherwise you would have to go to the states. You can take the FAA IR ground exams here in the UK. The King Video Course is great at getting you through with a high score.You still need to pass an oral exam before the check ride and that is the hard part, my oral exam lasted three hours. I am told many don't even get to the aircraft as they will fail you if you don't know you subect inside out. Once you have the ticket you do need to keep current. Have a look at the FAA FAR/AIM for all of the rules and requirements.

Good luck.