Kids that fly

[Toppers]

I have a question.

Can anybody shed any light on the rules and regs of the minimum age of "child" passengers? Last weekend I took my 3 yr old daughter and my 7 month old son in to Norwich and couldn't help wondering while I was checking in what the rules are with regard to minimum ages. They both travelled in well secured kids car seats in the back of my 172. Is this sufficient or am I committing a crime?
In case anyone is wondering how they behaved on the way from Berks to Norwich and back..............they slept all the way!

[2Donkeys]

There are no specific rules relating to the minimum age for passengers. Rather, the pilot is expected to exercise a degree of discretion - based on aircraft type, journey length etc.

The CAA has always proved slightly reluctant to issue advice relating to car seats too. The general advice seems to be that if the seat is approved for Car use, and can be fitted safely in the aircraft, then all is well. This is also the approach taken by the FAA.

One last thought is not to forget ear protection. Kids' ears are much more delicate than adults and need protecting in the noisy environment of an aircraft cabin. Peltor produce a set of ear-defenders called "Kids" (available through the usual pilots shops), which will work for 2-4 year olds. Babies can be a bit more problematic. We took the route of using the Peltor Kids as a clamp, and used terri nappies to pad the ears adequately.

Ours sleep from startup to shutdown too :)

-2Donkeys

[New Bloke]

check out this link

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum53/HTML/000018.html

[jayemm]

I take my 5-yr old flying regularly. He now wants to learn to fly and is frustrated that he's got to wait for years before he can start. As a matter of interest, when can he start?

[GulfStreamV]

Straight out of my PA30 flight manual:-

"Each Person shall be provided with a seat except for children under the age of three carried in the arms of passengers"

Obviously this more than like differs from aircraft to aircraft.

My boy is approaching 10months, and I can't wait to take him with me. I think he's just too young at the moment re the Ears/Noise.

GV

[Squawk 8888]

Jayemm, depends on the country but here in Canada you can train dual at any age, solo at 14, Recreational Pilot Permit (one passenger, 4 seats max, Canadian airspace only) at 16 and PPL at 17. Just last year a girl soloed on her 14th birthday near YYZ.

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[Teenyweeny ATC Cdt Cpl]

jayenm: to quote from GID 21: "Requirements for the issue of a PPL" -
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
Student pilots may act as Pilot-in-Command from their 16th birthday provided they act only in accordance with instructions given by a Flying Instructor, hold a valid JAR-FCL Medical Certificate and, generally, fly only in UK territorial airspace. There is no minimum age for dual instruction, but any received before the age of 14 is not countable towards the experience requirements specified in [that] document.
</font>

Hope that helps
-tacc

[Ace Rimmer]

Javemn
Well Old man Rimmer inducted me to the noble art in a J-3 Cub when I was about 9 (ie tall enough to reach the rudder pedals) Even before that I was allowed to be in charge of stick and thottle. Unfortunately I fell in love with it from that moment on (the other woman is what Mrs Rimmer calls flying). Not only is it great fun for kids but its a handy learning tool – later on when I had mastered the art of flying a real aircraft (OMR was firmly of the belief - and still is, that no aircraft without a tailwheel is "real". Today he's added radial engines to that discription BTW) Old man Rimmer let me lose with his 310 but in return insited that I did all the planning for cross country flying - which of course taught me good practical maths as well as geography (Met and looking at topographical features from the air). He insisted that I study the physics of flying as well as the whys and wherefores of how the engine and aircraft systems worked and what happens when they don't - all sounds grim but I hoovered the infomation up and loved every minute of it.
I reckon if a kid is interested then its never too early to start. To qualify the remarks all this was A) a long time ago B) in the States. Legally speaking, its my understanding that under JAR-FCL there is no minimum age for dual flight but you have to be 16 for solo. But since time in the air is seldom wasted think of the advantage Javemn Jr. will have when old enough to take up training for a PPL and beyond.

[Chilli Monster]

Toppers

To get us back onto the original thread (come on guys - read the original question!) There is nothing that stipulates a minimum age, as 2Donkeys says. So long as they're restrained sensibly no problems. My two were flying in gliders at the age of 3, and have flown in both the front and rear seats of light aircraft quite happily since.

CM

[juswonnafly]

Toppers,

There is no minimum age, in fact the CAA do not consider a child under 2 years to be a 'person' so you can quite legally fly a 2 seater with a baby on board and still be legal and insured (check that last one maybe)

Me and my wife used to fly a cub with our baby daughter strapped to my wife in her papoose. My wife would get strapped in the back seat with the papoose strapped under her belt, then we would slide my daughter in place. Some might say that this is risky, but so is flying anyway if you look at it like that.

Have fun, enjoy, but do look after their ears.

JWF http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[Toppers]

Thanks for all the advice. One last quick question while i'm being inquisitive;

If someone asks a Private Pilot to donate a flight to a charity auction is this deemed as a commercial flight. No money would be passed my way but the "bidding" price would be donated to charity.

Sorry for all the questions chaps!

[2Donkeys]

Charity Flights are covered by an AIC (AIC 50/2000 White 20) which you can download in PDF format off the internet.

The bottom line is that providing you:

- meet certain minimum experience and currency requirements

- have your plane maintained to PT standards

- fly in Day/VMC from a licenced strip

- do not leave an area of 25nm radius from departure and do not land away

- carry no more than 3 pax at a time, on no more than 3 flights per day

Then you are pretty much OK. Check the AIC though because there are lots of little gotchas to consider.


-2Donkeys

[Squawk 8888]

In Canada charity flights are covered by CAR 401.28(4). <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">The holder of a private pilot licence may receive remuneration from a charitable, a not-for-profit or a public security organization in respect of a flight conducted by the holder as a volunteer for that organization provided that the remuneration

(a) in the case of an aircraft owned by the holder, is paid at a rate based on distance travelled or hours flown that does not exceed the total of the holder's direct operating costs and the fees charged against the aircraft in respect of the flight; or
(b) in the case of a rental aircraft, is a reimbursement that does not exceed the total of the holder's rental costs, direct operating costs and the fees charged against the aircraft in respect of the flight.</font>
In other words, it's okay for a PPL to do charity flights as long as he doesn't make a profit himself. CAR 401.28 contains similar provisions for cost-sharing with pax and for business travel- reimbursement is permitted provided that it does not exceed the cost of the aircraft.

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