Working with Children

[Kelly Slater]

Now you need a "Working with children" check to teach pilots. Perhaps the moderators of this forum should get one too.



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Working with Children Check

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[rmcdonal]

Standard for any job with children involved.

[training wheels]

Even junior sport coaches (football, netball, swimming etc) need to get one too. Anyone who has any contact with children needs to get one which I believe is just a criminal record check, but you get a nice photo id card which you carry around. Just like an ASIC, except it costs half as much and valid for twice as long.

[das Uber Soldat]

Quick tip. Dont lodge your working with children form under the name 'Kevin the Kiddy Fiddler'

They didnt like that.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Standard for any job with children involved.

Not necessarily so!

Check the fine print!

How many children learn to fly? What is a child - anyone under 18 yrs of age?

University academic staff, even when teaching students under 18 do NOT require a "Working with children" clearance or "Blue card" !

Dr :8

[Worrals in the wilds]

University academic staff, even when teaching students under 18 do NOT require a "Working with children" clearance or "Blue card!"
Some of them probably should be checked. There were some total deviant creeps working at the Uni I went to at 17 :}

You are right of course, in this state they are exempted as shown at the link below, no idea why. Maybe its because uni classes are generally undertaken in a group and underagers are in the minority.

As the link below goes on to say that 'Police Officers who work with children no longer have to apply for blue cards' you can guess how well thought out and practical the whole scheme is. They also gloss over the fact that this sort of screening (similar to ASIC screening) only filters out people who got caught.
Employment Screening (http://www.ccypcg.qld.gov.au/employment/bluecard/reg_emp_PrivateTeaching.html)

Out of interest, is this a standard requirement for instructors or is it only this school that's advertising it?

[Awol57]

Each state legislation is different. Check your local rules to see what is required. I know from my dealings with the Air Force Cadets we often get issues in that activities interstate may require staff to get that states check as well. For example if I was to travel to QLD I think I can do 7 days with my WA WWC Card but anymore than that I need a blue card.

It might have changed a bit now but I am not sure. TAS and SA didn't have an equivilant for a while there (possibly still not).

In WA it is anyone that deals with a person under 18 unless you are a parent of a participant acting as a volunteer (or something similar to that - there are other exceptions).

Best advice is google your state and find out from the govt of the day what the requirements are.

[SideSaddle]

University academic staff, even when teaching students under 18 do NOT require a "Working with children" clearance or "Blue card" !


I dont know about university staff, but some vocational education establishments do. A large aviation training establishment that trains engineers and flight attendants is required to have it's instructional staff hold Blue Cards.:(

[AerocatS2A]

Quick tip. Dont lodge your working with children form under the name 'Kevin the Kiddy Fiddler'
Another one to avoid, "Kyle the Paedophile."

SideSaddle, you can use [ quote ] text [ /quote ] without the spaces to get the quote box, if that's what you were trying to do above.

[tail wheel]

Perhaps the moderators of this forum should get one too.

I already hold a Blue Card.

Each state legislation is different. Check your local rules to see what is required.

Correct.

I see no problem at all in a flying school requiring Instructors to hold a Blue Card (or its equivalent) if they are potentially involved with young people under 18 years of age. Indeed, the requirement should be encouraged.

[Clare Prop]

Pity we can't apply for it at the same time as the ASIC and save having to pay for the same checks twice!

[Wally Mk2]

It floors me that our society had sunk to this level of distrust:ugh: What do people really think that pedophilia didn't exist b4 this BS check system? It's a system that's fraught with leaks.It stops nothing!
Fancy having to have a card etc to teach someone to fly a damn plane.
We live in a society that's gone mad:ugh::ugh:


Wmk2

[gassed budgie]

Thankyou Wally.
I was asked recently to do some air experience flights for some of the local defence force cadets. Part of the deal was that I had to go through the the working with kids checks etc. etc. (and another AFP check right after having one done for the ASIC renewal).
I refused. At some point you just have to draw a line in the sand. The working with kids check was originally orientated toward those who work specifically work with children fulltime, such as kindergarten staff, primary school teachers and so on. It wasn't meant for some silly old git taking young adults for a fly once a year around their local patch.
It's yet another example of a piece legislation that has had unintended consequences.
The Privacy Act and the Aviation Security Act are another two that also spring to mind.

[Awol57]

I wouldn't say that too loud gassed bugdie, they shouldn't have if its a requirement in that state. I can't let that happen in WA or they would have my guts!

[Wally Mk2]

Good on ya GB:ok: but as Awo57 says be careful it's all about ass covering these days, the Pollies are the worst offenders there their the experts at it!
Take a look around any kiddies play ground, grandparents everywhere during the day (it's lovely to watch as the oldies get the most smiles) have they had to have a stupid check just to look after their own blood? Nope but they are just as likely to be in a position as anyone to abuse the right.
A well known TV celeb has just been caught (public news) so again having a check proves zip as such depravity can be had in a private manor!
The ASIC although also is a wank I guess is a necessary evil but to have to do the same check all over again with the AFP to have involvement with kids re flying is utter stupidity!:ugh:


Wmk2


Wmk2

[frothy]

Wally M2
Gotta agree, gone are the innocent years. I was in Brissy a couple of months ago in a cafateria. A young couple were sitting opposite with a young child in a stroller when an old Lady on her way out stopped and patted the bub on the head and gave it a peck on the head. I thought isn't that great, the parents were great about it, then I thought what would have happened if it was an elderly Gent that did the same thing I'll bet the reaction would have been different. Us blokes seem to have no rights to affection (non pedo intent). Another a local school has a walkway going past the school boundary and there has been letters in the local rag about 2 elderly gents who do a morning walk on that walkway and have the criminal intent of looking in the direction of the kids at play. These small minded plicks called for the Police to warn off these 2 old Blokes
The Joint's gone mad. Even Kids walking to School is a rare thing.
I'd be the first to reap vengence on Kiddy Fiddlers, but we've got to have a sensible approach to the freedom of the law abiding Public.
Gonna buy an Island and blow anyone out of the water that approaches, BUT let the beer barge in once a month and long enough for a Strip:}

Frothy

[hardNfast]

Gonna buy an Island and blow anyone out of the water that approaches, BUT let the beer barge in once a month and long enough for a Strip

Sounds like you should move up to the Torres Strait!

[MyNameIsIs]

Sounds like you should move up to the Torres Strait!

NOT recommended.........
Sends ya crazy........

[Horatio Leafblower]

A well known TV celeb has just been caught (public news)

No he hasn't been caught - he has been accused, and he has been charged.

He is innocent.

If the court, and a jury, find him guilty THEN (and only then) will he be guilty. NOT before. :=

Andy Muirhead is accused of 1 count of being in posession of child pornography. I have about a dozen photos of my kids in the bath, under a sprinkler, whatever, here on my computer (and a few friend's kids are just as nude in the same photo too).

Am I in posession of child porn? Probably. :ugh:

Didn't our parents take photos of ALL of us nude? Oh that was in the 70's before internet I suppose. :rolleyes:

[training wheels]

The working with kids check was originally orientated toward those who work specifically work with children fulltime, such as kindergarten staff, primary school teachers and so on.

Well, teachers, primary or secondary, don't need a Working With Children card because they go through a National Criminal History Record Check when they register to become a teacher with their state teacher registration board anyway.

But one has to wonder why an ASIC costs more than double than a WWC card when it's essentially a similar type of check anyway.

[tail wheel]

What do people really think that pedophilia didn't exist b4 this BS check system? It's a system that's fraught with leaks.

Correct. But if it frustrates even one paedophile abusing an innocent child, the Blue Card requirement has served its purpose.

Long term PPRuNers will recall a number of incidents of paedophile pilots mentioned on these forum, including one in the UK who is now rresiding at Her Majesties pleasure as a result of PPRuNe.

[Biggles78]

The WWC card in Vic is good for 5 years and anyone who works in a school (non teaching) requires one. Only used to need a Police Clearance, costing $24. Now the WWC is $75, ASIC is $197, Drivers Licence, Pilots licence, Passport, Shooters licence and not one of them can be used as a substitute id. You also need multiple of the above to open a bank account. I need a man bag just to carry round the ids that I need to get into various places.

Nanny state is an under state ment for it.

As to the above post about the 2 elderly gent walking past the school each day and the female who patted the child on the head, what about the airline "policy" of NOT allowing children to sit beside a male pax on an aircraft. Does that apply to a male who holds a WWC check?

[Paul Alfred]

It may seem to be 'crazy times' but I would rather my kids being taught/instructed by someone who has had a 'police check' as its called in SA.

PA

[aussiefan]

The police check is different. There is no working with children thing in SA. We were in Vic recently, the wife is a midwife and she had to get the working with children thing, also a police clearance.

Bit of a pain but as someone else here said as long as it stops even one scumbag messing with a kid then keep it coming! And yes there are probably ways around it but does that mean give up and not bother with this sort of thing?

[compressor stall]

The wife is a midwife and she had to get the working with children thing

*push* *push* *grunt*

Cue screams of new born baby, still blue and covered in white stuff.

Midwife: "Sorry, I my working with children check has expired, I have to leave now".

Pythonesque.

[Chimbu chuckles]

The true unintended consequence of all this BS is that more children are in potential danger because they have been taught to be afraid of adult men than are at risk from the true deviant adult.

In times past a lost kiddie would be taken in hand by an adult stranger and his/her parents found etc - now so many kids have been taught 'stranger danger' and so many honest adults, almost invariably men, have experienced hassles in this regard that many are fearful of helping small children in need.

Its a disgrace - children should be taught to, and in reality can, trust adult men (it pains me to even have add 'men'), 99.9999999% of whom are perfectly reliable in this respect - but that is the world of PC madness we have come to.

[aussiefan]

Chimbu,

If you want to look at the figures, it is most likely a male. But a male that is close to the family. Uncles, friends neighbours etc.

As someone at the start of the flying career I look at instructing and think if I get a female student who makes an accusation then effectively it is my word against hers and I am stuffed. Two people in a small cockpit, hard to prove.

Sad state of affairs....

[j3pipercub]

Statistics have shown Chuck that less than 5% of children who suffer abuse, are abused by strangers. The rest are abused by someone they KNOW! I grew up with the 'stanger danger' motto. Doesn't make any sense now...

edit: Aussie beat me to it

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

err-umm; that's exactly what Chuck was saying fellas. Stranger Danger education has caused more harm that good. (He also said the bit about strangers feeling OK taking a kiddie-in-need by the hand and out as needed).

FRQ CB

[tail wheel]

Chuck and Aussie are correct, relatives, neighbours, family friends, teachers etc are often resposible for child abuse.

The Blue Card will never eliminate all risk of child abuse. It is intended to exclude, as much as possible, paedophiles accessing children in schools, child care, sporting teams, churches etc.

We'll never know statistics but I suspect the percentage of child abuse may be far higher than many suspect. Regrettable, the vast majority of child abuse is never reported.

[k_sheep]

University academic staff, even when teaching students under 18 do NOT require a "Working with children" clearance or "Blue card" !

Dr http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/nerd.gif
The major university I work at requires all academics to get a blue card.

[pbwhi0]

A valid blue card only offers protection to the extent that the holder hasn't been caught yet. Recent exposures of kiddie fiddlers in the ranks of the clergy both here and abroad just go to show that a blue card is no guarantee that the holder is an honest decent person who will not be tempted by an opportunity.

The money spent on administration of the scheme might be better spent on surveillance of those released back into the community.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

The major university I work at requires all academics to get a blue card.


K sheep - and you joined Pproon just to say that I am wrong?

Dr :8

[notmyC150v2]

Long term PPRuNers will recall a number of incidents of paedophile pilots mentioned on these forum, including one in the UK who is now rresiding at Her Majesties pleasure as a result of PPRuNe.

Ah yes, the Guv'nor. I had nearly forgotten about him, a pity his victims never will.

As long as Priests, Police and Teachers are excluded the blue card system is worthless. The other problem with it, as already stated, is that it only weeds out those already caught or accused and cannot exclude those who are under the radar.

So whilst it would prevent scum like "the Guvnor" from getting a position in a kindergarten or scout hall, it couldn't have prevented the initial crime. It also can't prevent him from moving to another country and starting again, or even getting another girlfriend and abusing her kids.

To be honest, the best system to prevent child abuse is not one organised by Government but rather, old fashioned parental control.

My wife and kids are Catholic (I am an athiest) so they go to church and my boys are alter servers occassionally. My rules are that they are not allowed to be alone with the priest at any time without my wife or myself present. So if my wife can't guarantee that she will be present then I go as well.

I also make sure that they don't have unrestricted access to the internet and never make "efriends" with people they (and I) don't know in person.

I take an interest in their hobbies and sports and try to get to know all of their friends, and by extension their friends parents.

I never let them stay at someone's house if I don't know them and even if I do I make sure my boys know that the rules which apply at home apply everywhere (i.e. what would daddy say?).

We used to teach them stranger danger but I don't believe in it anymore. Most abuse happens by people they know and making kids fear everyone causes more damage than good. I would much rather they be friendly (but careful), outgoing, happy and well adjusted with a mean right hook than scared rabbits.

[Worrals in the wilds]

The major university I work at requires all academics to get a blue card.

That doesn't mean it's a legal requirement, it isn't in Queensland:
Exemptions
Paid employees are exempt under this category and do not require a blue card if they are:

an approved teacher; or
an employee of an education provider, such as a university, TAFE or registered training organisation....from the link above. If your uni is in Queensland and requires blue cards it is an institution policy (and there's nothing wrong with it, IMO), but FTDK is correct for at least one state.

As long as Priests, Police and Teachers are excluded the blue card system is worthless.

Police and Teachers are subject to similar pre-employement screening (more rigorous in the case of police) which is why they are not required to have a blue card. Are you sure priests/religious people don't need a card to work with children these days? I don't know either way, but they're not listed in the exemptions above :confused:.

To be honest, the best system to prevent child abuse is not one organised by Government but rather, old fashioned parental control.

Absolutely. Contact over the years with various teachers, lawyers and coppers who've had to deal with this sort of bilge has convinced me of that.

The other thing that goes a long way towards catching abusers is making sure children are comfortable discussing this sort of thing with their parents. Two of the older 'experts' listed above (and the copper) believed that until recently lot of children were afraid to report abuse or didn't know how to go about it. Just their opinions, but based on experience.

[TBM-Legend]

Krudd thinks we're all gullible children. Does he have a card? Maybe Julia could issue it to him....:ouch: