IRI(A) requirements IFR hours

[pinguair]

Hi @ all,
I habe a UK CPL and finished my FIC course in germany.

Now I thought keep on going. I will get the IRI(A). Does anyone know the minimum IFR hours for this course?

I can find the minimum hours if you want to get the IRI(A) for multi engine aircrafts. But how many hours do I need to start the cours for a single engine ifr instructor?

Cheers Michael

[Whopity]

JAR-FCL 1.330(d) (1) the issue of an IR(A) provided that
the instructor has:

(i) At least 200 hours flight time
in accordance with instrument flight
rules, of which up to 50 hours may be
instrument ground time in a flight
simulator or FNPT II; and

(ii) completed as a student an
approved course comprising at least 5
hours of flight instruction in an
aeroplane, flight simulator or FNPT II
(see Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.395 and
AMC FCL 1.395) and has passed the
appropriate skill test as set out in
Appendix 1 to JAR–FCL 1.330 & 1.345;

[blagger]

In the UK if you are already an FI you do the course and remove the 'applied instrument' restriction rather than getting an IRI as well - I think it might be different in some other countries? Anyone know what will happen in the new EASA world order - will all UK issued FIs with the instrument instruction restriction removed get an IRI rating automatically?

[pinguair]

@Blagger
I will finish up the 100h in a few weeks. Then I get the full FI(a) with the normal restrictions.

That means if I remove the applied instrument restriction and do the course for an IRI, I get automaticaly the IRI rating?

[ClintonBaptiste]

I am in a similar boat as an FI in Spain. A colleague of mine asked the CAA about the removal of applied instruments restriction, apparently their response was that it would be better for an FI to have this rather than an IRI. For an IRI you need 800 hours Instrument time, but for the removal of the applied instruments, it is just 200 IFR (However, if you did all your IR hours in an aircraft, this is sufficient for them, due to the 4x rule)
I think it is due to not requiring an FI to become an IRI. If you need any clarification, don't quote LASORS, just email the CAA and see what their response is. After all, they are the ones issuing the licence.


Cheers

[pinguair]

Do you know... what is the difference between the instruments restriction and an IRI?

In Germany they only have an IRI but not a instrument restriction on a FI(A)...

[S-Works]

In other countries they have neither an IRI nor an Instrument restriction. If you hold an IR and an FI then you can teach for the IR......

[Trim Stab]

In other countries they have neither an IRI nor an Instrument restriction. If you hold an IR and an FI then you can teach for the IR......


Same with MEP.

I hope that EASA eventually standardise instructional qualifications - preferably to the sensible system above. In some countries, if you are an FI, even if you have thousands of hours MEP and IR, you still have to do an expensive extra course to teach MEP and IR. Often the "instructors" on these courses have a lot less experience than the "students".

[Whopity]

If you hold an IR and an FI then you can teach for the IR......Then they are cotrary to JAR-FCL which clearly states that a FI must complete the course and pass the test!(ii) completed as a student an
approved course comprising at least 5
hours of flight instruction in an
aeroplane, flight simulator or FNPT II
(see Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.395 and
AMC FCL 1.395) and has passed the
appropriate skill test as set out in
Appendix 1 to JAR–FCL 1.330 & 1.345; And thats how it is in EASA-FCL
Do you know... what is the difference between the instruments restriction and an IRI?The Instrument Restriction is unique to the UK, and is a hangover from the UK National rating system. The requirements to remove the "Instrumet Restriction" are exactly the same as adding the privilege to a JAA FI rating above.

[Cows getting bigger]

OK Whopity, genuine question here. What would a FI with an IMC rating derestriction (ie able to teach IMC) have to do if he subsequently obtained an IR? Would the previous de-restriction cover the newly gained rating or would there be a need for an additional FI skills test?

[pinguair]

Well, that means..
I need 200 hours of IFR time. This can include max. 50 hours in an simulator.
Then I have to do the course for teaching ifr and passing the test.
Then The caa is removing the instrument restriction and I can teach single engine ifr. Is that right?

[Duchess_Driver]

Nope....

You need 200 hours IFR OR 50 hours sole reference to instruments then......

There is a 1:4 trade.

The course is 5 flying and 10 groundschool.

As has recently been said on here somewhere, if you have a JAA IR you heve the requirements.

HTH

[BillieBob]

Quite simply*, there are two ways to become qualified to give instruction towards the issue of an aeroplane instrument rating.

1. If you already hold a Flight Instructor rating, you need to have completed at least 200 hours flight time in accordance with the instrument flight rules (of which 50 hours may be instrument ground time), have completed an approved course of at least 5 hours in an aeroplane, flight simulator or FNPT2 and have passed an FI(A) skill test relevant to IR instruction [JAR-FCL 1.330(d)].

2. If you do not already hold a Flight Instructor rating, you need to have completed at least 800 hours flight time under IFR (of which at least 400 hours must have been in aeroplanes), have completed an approved course comprising theoretical knowledge instruction and at least ten hours of flight instruction on an aeroplane, flight simulator or FNPT II; and passed an FI(A) skill test relevant to IR instruction [JAR-FCL 1.395].

The UK CAA continues to place upon its FI ratings, restrictions that are not compliant with JAR-FCL (solely to satisfy its own parochial requirements) and that are, in the main, meaningless. The 'No applied instrument flying' restriction is an example of a device that is totally meaningless in the context of JAR-FCL but satisfies those purely parochial requirements.

Provided that you hold an instrument rating and provided that your UK issued FI rating does not include a 'no applied IF' restriction, then you can give instruction for the issue of an IR. In the real world, provided that you comply with either 1. or 2. above, you can do the same.

Having just spotted Duchess_Driver's post, I would point out that JAR-FCL says nothing about 50 hours by sole reference to instruments or of a 1:4 trade (whatever that is); presumably, this is yet another UK CAA aberration that the rest of the JAA may not agree with.

About the only advantage of the impending adoption of the EASA implementing rules is that the UK CAA will, at last, be forced to dump some of its more archaic practices.

*If you want the complicated version, ring the CAA

[blagger]

I don't know why anyone worries about all the detail of the IFR time etc.. using the UK regs if you have an IMC you must have enough sole ref to instruments hours to teach IMC, likewise the same with IR, by definition of the requirements for IMC or IR issue!

I can't see how any JAR-FCL compliant set up can let someone who has an FI and an IR teach for the IR without further training and testing - JAR-FCL 1.330 seems quite clear to me on the need for the 5 hour course and skill test. The debate is then how you show that test on the licence - CAA does it by removing the applied instrument restriction, other countries show it by issuing an IRI to sit with the FI rating. I suspect the CAA have stuck with the no appplied instrument restriction as we have FI/IMCR holders who can teach for the IMCR.

[Duchess_Driver]

LASORS H1.4 (Agreed, not an authoritative document) states under the removal of applied instrument section


c. Have flown at least 200 hours flight time in
accordance with Instrument Flight Rules (IFR), of
which up to 50 hours may be instrument ground time
in an approved flight simulator or FNPT II. Where
pilots have recorded flight by sole reference to
instruments and not under IFR then 1 hour of flight
by sole reference to instruments may be counted
as 4 hours flight by IFR. Where pilots wish solely
to instruct for the IMC Rating a reduced experience
level of 10 hours flight time by sole reference to
instruments is applicable

my italics.

[Whopity]

When JAR-FCL came in the problem was that nobody recorded time in accordance with IFR but most pilots did record Instrument Flight Time. It was therefore estimated that if you had flown 50 hours by sole reference to instruments you had in all probability equated to 200 hours under IFR (which could all have been flown on an autopilot in VMC).

Only the UK apply this interpretation so there is no point mentioning it to someone training in Germany or Spain because it will not apply to them. Come EASA it won't apply in the UK either.

Cows Getting BiggerWhat would a FI with an IMC rating derestriction (ie able to teach IMC) have to do if he subsequently obtained an IR?An FI who does not have the "No Applied Instrument" Restriction can teach instrument flying:
a) for the issue of an IMC rating without need for any approved or registered organisation and
b) subject to holding a valid IR. teach for an IR in an FTO approved for the purpose where the FI will receive in house srtandardisation trainig in accordance with the Operations Manual Section D

[BillieBob]

LASORS H1.4 (Agreed, not an authoritative document)Quite. Neither do it's provisions apply in any JAA member state other than the UK.