Possible ground handling shake up at VB

[tasdevil.f27]

Seems VB may be looking very closely following Tigers footsteps and going for a single ground agent. Agents were in Brisbane very recently and were supposedly told that JB is looking very closely at this option. It was hoped that this would result in a better overall deal for Virgin and lower costs as the prices some agents charge vary greatly.

Some agents were not very happy apparently..

[tasdevil.f27]

More on the rumour that it would likely be Aero Care sole handling as they already do a number of VB ports.

[Jethro Gibbs]

one thing is for sure it will be low pay and very casual hours and split shifts.:ok:

[Worrals in the wilds]

More on the rumour that it would likely be Aero Care sole handling as they already do a number of VB ports.

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but would that include big ports where Virgin currently employ their own ground handling people, or just smaller ports where they already use a contractor?

[Jethro Gibbs]

i would think their own people are for the big A

[Worrals in the wilds]

Ouch.....:ouch:
You get the feeling that the big business of the future will consist of ten managers, one hundred ego stroking flunkies and no-one doing any actual work. The business won't actually produce anything but there'll be some great reports written.

[Sunstar320]

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but would that include big ports where Virgin currently employ their own ground handling people, or just smaller ports where they already use a contractor? I heard PB/VB/TT will all be under Aerocare at Melbourne under the plan.

Its $20 an hour folks:D Should keep the troops in T2 happy :{

[tasdevil.f27]

I haven't heard anything about VB staffed ports, but could well happen in time I guess, AC already do PB & VAus at Melbourne anyway. I only heard about already contracted ports. Hopefully they do not get the shaft like the QF boys have over the last few years around the country side!

AC are one of the better handlers to work for, do value there staff somewhat more than others so I'm told, and pay better than most and take there staff away for weekends etc. Think AC pay around $22 hr these days. Talking to the boys at various other places / agents it seems to range from $16 - $22

[vacc1]

AC already do PB & VAus at Melbourne anyway

Aerocare do PB.

V Aus is handled by Toll/DNATA in MEL as they are at SYD & BNE too.

[tasdevil.f27]

Ah, sorry my mistake about V Aus. Yes you are right :ok:

[VBPCGUY]

So what was the point of us voting in the new EBA and the new pay structure that starts employees on $16 odd an hour???

Back to baking for me then I guess:(

[tasdevil.f27]

16 an hour, where do I sign... Seriously that is a joke in this day and age!

I'm sure some Slobart bakeries will have you or maybe the McCafe :}

[Jethro Gibbs]

$16 an hour these places are getting closer to there goal target which is have people work for free or even better have them pay a fee to work to the company.:ok:

[porch monkey]

Well, why should ground staff be exempt? Pilots have been paying to work for quite a while now. Check out the "new" cadet schemes at J*.

[VBPCGUY]

16 an hour, where do I sign... Seriously that is a joke in this day and age!

I'm sure some Slobart bakeries will have you or maybe the McCafe http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

Already been there done that worked for Country Bake in Slobart min award wages there thats for sure. Im going to take this as very abrupt rumor and take little notice me thinks.

[heffy_inc]

As someone who *used* to work at an outsourced port - I doubt very much that DJ will outsource mainline ports. It will most likely be changing to a single provider for outsourced ports (all except BNE, SYD, MEL and ADL)...

If it is AC, I'm assuming they will take on a significant number of employees from the incumbent operator - as they did in OOL. For most employees that would mean a pay-rise.

Interesting times...

[Sunstar320]

heffy, ADL is now Aerocare since Feb this year.

[VBPCGUY]

Sunstar 320 its part AC not fully from what I was told, though it is a one of the mainline ports that could definately become contracted.

[Cactusjack]

DJ won't outsource mainline ports yet. The Ground Ops EBA has been signed and ratified, so that will keep you boys employed for a little longer. Outsourced port contracts are always under review and whoever offers the cheapest deal wins.
DJ commisioned a study many moons ago and knows that it would be certainly cheaper to outosurce mainline ports than have their own rampies do the job.The timing back then of doing this was 'questionable' so the idea was shelved. However 'shelved' doesnt mean the idea won't be ressurected. Il Deuce knows only too well how much money can be saved by contracting ground services out. He is more than familiar with the Qantas staff vs EGH pay differences, don't you worry about that.
As has been raised in this thread, one mainline port will become outsourced, and it isn't Syd, Bne or Mel.

[heffy_inc]

I had a feeling ADL would be outsourced, partly at least. I've been out of the industry for 6 months now so I wasn't 100% sure.

While I was in, ADL was the ugly duckling of the "mainline" ports... CBR actually had more flights and better stats (OTP, etc.) that ADL has had for a long time. Not sure what it's like now though.

[Worrals in the wilds]

DJ commisioned a study many moons ago and knows that it would be certainly cheaper to outosurce mainline ports than have their own rampies do the job.

Did the study look into OTP, lost baggage figures and other performance measures? If so, how did the argument for outsourcing stack up?

[Cactusjack]

Worrals,
My opinion of the study was that it was not comprehensive at all. But then again I was trained at a different school of management than DJ's managers, particularly in the early days. OTP and lost baggage,at least back around 2003/04 was not a high priority item. It was the dollar factor based on paying a third party contractor at the tightest margin vs paying Pit Crew at a higher rate which included payroll costs, travel benefits, yearly bonuses in either cash or 'gifts' (albeit small in value),uniforms,GSE and the list goes,that was the main factor. The numbers stacked up in the contractors favour obviously as it is and always will be a cheaper option simply based upon the differing organisational structures and cost base. However within DJ there was a fear that there would be a decline in service, morale and ( I hate to use this word ) - flair, if the Pit Crew were punted, so the idea was put to bed.

In fact the place went the opposite, with layer upon layer of managers,specialists and 'reward roles' introduced based upon mostly the 'mates rates principal'. This however is making them bleed money at a frightening rate and has put them in a position where mainline ports quite simply do not operate at a level as lean as Tiger and Jetstar or the ports that QF has contracted out like OOl. I'm not in a position to judge nor make the required changes to bring back a cost effective ramp environment, but it certainly is an area that Il Deuce will be looking at very closely. Regardless, I wish the boys all the best as there has been some loyal hard working frontline folk who from day one were a major role in building up the organisations capability, it is just a shame that a handful of oxygen thieves turned the place on its head due to their inept ability, lack of actual aviation experience and their failure to look at the outcomes that decisions they make might have in the future on the company.

[neville_nobody]

Interesting points there Catcusjack, I think any airline would have to seriously consider the morale issues at the major ports because they have days above and beyond the call of duty sometimes. In those situations it is the staff morale and pride in their company that gets you through. VB got some good PR out of the previous few debacles because the ground staff went out of their way to help passengers. I would have thought for ground jobs, that they could keep the wages stable by offering good travel benefits which you would otherwise not get in a customer service role. Given that they make money on staff travel I don't see why it is considered a cost.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Cactusjack, interesting and thanks.

However within DJ there was a fear that there would be a decline in service, morale and ( I hate to use this word ) - flair, if the Pit Crew were punted, so the idea was put to bed.


That has been my non-scientific observation of subcontractors in general and subcontracted GHS in particular. The contract agencies here also seem to be understaffed, undertrained and under resourced (how about some gear that doesn't break down, fellahs! :}) which is no reflection on the actual workers but a big reflection on their companies. Subcontracting (in my previous sad experience as a subbie, although not a GHS subbie) is all about cutting corners and fending off competing agencies, rather than delivering outcomes.

In those situations it is the staff morale and pride in their company that gets you through.
Neville,
100% correct, and that's what you lose with contractors. Everyone's a jobsworth. The parent company doesn't value your position enough to actually employ you, so why go the extra mile? As for the contract company managers, it's all about saving a buck, so the extra mile will cost ya, thanks.


In fact the place went the opposite, with layer upon layer of managers,specialists and 'reward roles' introduced based upon mostly the 'mates rates principal'.

Then that is DJ's fault for running their ground handling poorly. They can extricate themselves by announcing 'not profitable, need to subcontract' but that is a sheer cop out and indicates laziness and a lack of operational awareness at the management level. IMO, the trouble with subcontracting a core part of the business (and ground handling is a core part of an airline) is that the parent company loses control over two key facets of being a 'good' airline, ie one that leaves when it's supposed to, with your bag on board. Once you let a subcontractor loose with that, then you may as well resign yourself to the ultra LCC 'at least we get you there alive' model, which doesn't seem to match the Noveau Premium image Virgin is touting these days.

[GAFA]

CBR is Aerocare and they seem to do a great job with minimum of staff. There has been a big improvement at OOL since the Aerocare take over.

[VBPCGUY]

Good post cactusjack and I can back that up by saying when DJ had the major IT failure in december last year Ive never seen a group of people pull together and get the company through what was possibly the worst day in VB's history like people did that day, thats because we do take a massive amount of pride in not only our jobs but VB itself, I for the life of me cant work out why incompentant management continues to try and work against loyal employees, we arent working against you why work against us:ugh:

[ANstar]

Good post cactusjack and I can back that up by saying when DJ had the major IT failure in december last year Ive never seen a group of people pull together and get the company through what was possibly the worst day in VB's history like people did that day, thats because we do take a massive amount of pride in not only our jobs but VB itself, I for the life of me cant work out why incompentant management continues to try and work against loyal employees, we arent working against you why work against us

Given VB actually outsource the ground handling in all ports except SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL would that mean that currently they have more staff outsourced than in house doing ground handling? In which case the failure last year also highlights that they too can take alot of pride in VB and do a good job?

[tasdevil.f27]

OOL had some of the worst figures around for a contracted port, lost / misplaced bags, delays etc etc. Little wonder OA lost the contract.

I wonder if Jetstar still think that contracted ports are so good, the amount of damage that has occurred to there aircraft at ports since QF employees were booted out......

[VBPCGUY]

Given VB actually outsource the ground handling in all ports except SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL would that mean that currently they have more staff outsourced than in house doing ground handling? In which case the failure last year also highlights that they too can take alot of pride in VB and do a good job?




Well the IT failure was in MEL so that was the port that was effected the most.

[dirty deeds]

Pay peanuts, get monkey's. Simple!

You get what you pay for! Just like the adverts, only pay for what you want? Not the frill's! And they wonder why the place run's like it does sometimes.